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  1. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by mishmash View Post
    Living the kind of life that shows the love of God, does.
    Serious question. What kind of life does one life that shows the love of God? That doesn't involve teaching and preaching, etc...


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  2. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by Canaqua View Post
    Serious question. What kind of life does one life that shows the love of God? That doesn't involve teaching and preaching, etc...
    What do you consider preaching and teaching? If someone say, Praise the Lord, in casual conversation, is that preaching? Or thank God? Or the sunset that is God's handiwork?



  3. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by ezduzit View Post
    One of us is right but we won't know who until we're dead.
    what if you are both right? I maintain there is a lot we don't know about God. I personally don't know any answers and don't pretend to. Even in the bible there is a lot of debate about salvation and jesus. Read Rob Bell for some more insights. What people think it means may or may not be the whole story. And that to me is very interesting.



  4. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by ezduzit View Post
    What do you consider preaching and teaching? If someone say, Praise the Lord, in casual conversation, is that preaching? Or thank God? Or the sunset that is God's handiwork?
    Well, mentioning God in conversation like that doesn't bother me personally. But, it seems like a pretty easy way to "live a life that shows the love of God". I was wondering more what kind of things one does, versus what one says, that constitutes living that kind of life.



  5. #85
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    How do Christians show their faith through their life without preaching..

    Galatians 5:22-23

    "But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law. "

    Do I always do this? Of course not. Do I do this most of the time, probably not. Do I try - well, yes..

    But it is a way to show my "faith" without preaching.. Do I think you need to be a Christian to show these attributes, No a big NO.


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  6. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by ezduzit View Post
    Personally, I don't think it has anything to do with being *wired* one way or the other. It's something you either have faith in or you don't...I believe it's a choice. Attributing it to wiring...which is beyond anyone's control...gives an explanation that doesn't have to confront that it is a choice. A person can blame their wiring.

    I have always believed and can't imagine NOT believing...can't walk in those shoes to know what that feels like. I can't imagine being so alone thru life, thru the suffering and thru death. For me all of that is a peaceful journey. Sure I have to deal with things, but I am never alone with the struggle. I mean truly NEVER alone...I can feel the presence of God in my life.

    I think the changes in social morals in the last 4 decades has solidified my beliefs even more strongly. The changes have made me think about things like sex outside of marriage, abortions, what charity really means, etc., and I have found that my decisions on what those issues mean to me are even more *strict*, if that word can be used. I felt I had to decide, on the merits of each topic, what I supported and what I didn't and, most importantly, WHY I feel the way I do.

    I don't go around talking about it except with my friends who feel the same way. People who don't agree consider it having *religion rammed down my throat* if I speak of any of this with them so I don't and am content to let them be. Find your own way. One of us is right but we won't know who until we're dead.

    So my *conversion* if you will from a believer to a BELIEVER was cause by the social and political issues that have confronted me over the years. These issues have helped me hone my belief system to what it is now.
    Are you serious?
    People that don't believe what some religion demands their followers believe are looking for an excuse?

    I seem to remember when christian faith was saying being gay is a choice.
    Oh, wait, they still say that.

    As I said before, that is the scary side of faith.
    The faithful is violently antagonistic to those not saying they too believe, at times to the point of killing others that don't believe the same or not at all, because "the heretics just are not trying hard enough".


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  7. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bluey View Post
    Are you serious?
    People that don't believe what some religion demands their followers believe are looking for an excuse?

    I seem to remember when christian faith was saying being gay is a choice.
    Oh, wait, they still say that.

    As I said before, that is the scary side of faith.
    The faithful is violently antagonistic to those not saying they too believe, at times to the point of killing others that don't believe the same or not at all, because "the heretics just are not trying hard enough".
    Seriously Bluey LET THE BONE GO!!!
    We all know what Christianity has done through the ages, it does not mean that people in general who believe in Jesus Christ practice that.
    Why do you even care! I think I may go the way of LMH.
    "you can only ride the drama llama so hard before it decides to spit in your face." ?Caffeinated.


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  8. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sannois View Post
    Seriously Bluey LET THE BONE GO!!!
    We all know what Christianity has done through the ages, it does not mean that people in general who believe in Jesus Christ practice that.
    Why do you even care! I think I may go the way of LMH.
    Where is your christian spirit you say you adhere to?

    There are hard questions asked here, that make some uneasy if they had not considered them before.

    I think all here have a right to express their opinions and think a bit out of place for you to keep coming after me personally, now on two threads.
    You may ought to consider who here keeps gnawing on a bone and it is not I who is doing that.

    Try a bit harder to stay on topic and quit the personal jabs, will you?
    I get that you don't agree with me, but honestly, this is a debate open to all.


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  9. #89
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    Bluey, I do like and respect you, but when you say "Christian faith" it is the same as people lumping all Muslims together...including the jihadists, and we know that isn't true.

    Sendenhorse, I like Rob Bell. That's some really good stuff that he teaches.

    And of course, the Bishop of New Hampshire in the Episcopal church in NH is openly gay, the arch bishop is a woman, and the church has just approved same sex blessings. Gene Robinson's book is a great read.

    Regarding the brain wiring, we also know now that the brain is a remarkable thing that can rewire itself. So while that wiring may be a predilection toward or away from faith, it may also be the result of being a believer or not. We didn't used to believe that nerves could regenerate, but now we know that they can and do, so t would not shock me to learn that those differences are the result of the belief, just as continuing to learn keeps that gray matter soft in adults.
    Last edited by OneGrayPony; Dec. 28, 2012 at 09:19 AM. Reason: Finishing an incredibly awkward sentence :-)


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  10. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by OneGrayPony View Post
    Bluey, I do like and respect you, but when you say "Christian faith" it is the same as people lumping all Muslims together...including the jihadists, and we know that isn't true.

    Sendenhorse, I like Rob Bell. That's some really good stuff that he teaches.

    And of course, the Bishop of New Hampshire in the Episcopal church in NH is openly gay, the arch bishop is a woman, and the church has just approved same sex blessings. Gene Robinson's book is a great read.

    Regarding the brain wiring, we also know now that the brain is a remarkable thing that can rewire itself. So while that wiring may be a predilection toward or away from faith, it may also be the result of being a believer or not. We didn't used to believe that nerves could regenerate, but now we know that they can and do, so t would not shock me to learn that those differences are the result of the belief, just as continuing to learn keeps that gray matter soft in adults.
    Yes, we already touched on brain plasticity in the other thread about this topic.
    Still, maybe, like with color blindness, there is some that has to be there to make someone a believer that is just not in others?
    I definitely think being either is not a choice for many.

    Someone said non-believers wanted to use differences in wiring to excuse not believing?
    How about the other side of that coin, that maybe the differences in wiring is what makes some believe such strange things we can't know, with such certainty, excusing those strange beliefs, that puzzle those that can see there is nothing there?


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  11. #91
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    Yea, sorry - having the conversation on both threads is hard. This one has a different flavor if you will and I wanted to keep it all together - sorry for the repetition!

    My son is a confirmed skeptic of...well...everything. Not just religion, tell him that the sky is blue and he's not even very sure he trusts his own eyesight. He's been like that since he was very little (which has made him incredibly difficult to raise, given that some laws of physics and society are as they are and while it's interesting to intellectually ponder their veracity, can be dangerous to do that in the physical world). He is like this moreso than normal, out of the three, he's the only one that HAS to touch the stove to see if its hot no matter what I have told him.

    I'm quite certain that it's a brain wiring difference, in him, and he is not a believer and would validate that study, but it isn't limited to religion.

    I'm just putting that out there, not sure what to think about that yet :-)



  12. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by OneGrayPony View Post
    Yea, sorry - having the conversation on both threads is hard. This one has a different flavor if you will and I wanted to keep it all together - sorry for the repetition!

    My son is a confirmed skeptic of...well...everything. Not just religion, tell him that the sky is blue and he's not even very sure he trusts his own eyesight. He's been like that since he was very little (which has made him incredibly difficult to raise, given that some laws of physics and society are as they are and while it's interesting to intellectually ponder their veracity, can be dangerous to do that in the physical world). He is like this moreso than normal, out of the three, he's the only one that HAS to touch the stove to see if its hot no matter what I have told him.

    I'm quite certain that it's a brain wiring difference, in him, and he is not a believer and would validate that study, but it isn't limited to religion.

    I'm just putting that out there, not sure what to think about that yet :-)
    While humanity has been studying how humanity ticks for millennia, we really don't know that much, do we.
    We know we are more complicated than we can figure out quite yet.
    In science, I have heard neurobiology called the new frontier.
    No telling where expanding that knowledge will take us, is it.


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  13. #93
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    Theologically speaking one cannot be "saved" if by that you mean performing a single act that generates a permanent condition.

    Salvation comes from living live IAW the Two Great Commandments. If you do that you're probably OK. If not, then not. (In this, by the way, Martin Luther was wrong.)

    An epiphany might alter the course of a miscreant's life but the person must stay that new course. Reversion to old behaviors erases gains.

    This approach to salvation, by the way, is one of THE major differences between Catholic and Protestant theology.

    G.
    Mangalarga Marchador: Uma Raça, Uma Paixão



  14. #94
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    Bluey, it is amazing, isn't it? I have such a deep sense of amazement of how little we really know.



  15. #95
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    I consider myself a sceptic, and science minded too, guys. I tend to look for logical explanations in everything. But I have seen, and had things happen to me that defy any logical explanation.
    As far as how do you live a Christ-like life-you try to love, forgive, care, treat people like Jesus would. And Jesus would be honest with people, but always with love. I have found that if I really want to go tell a person off-it is usually not God encouraging me to do that. But if I sit down with someone and tell them how I feel, without judging them, God can speak through me.
    I try very hard not to judge, I don't judge appearance, sexual preferences, 'religion', church, etc, etc. I remind myself God loves all. This has definitely not made me too popular with the 'religious' among my friends. One told me I am not a comfortable person to be around, because I keep pointing out they are to love all, and let God judge. Everyone here is able to have their own beliefs-just know that God loves you all, even if you don't believe in Him, even if you do wrong. He still loves, and would welcome you to Him with open arms.
    And understand-I am so not perfect. I can be snarky, impatient, angry, etc, etc. BUT-I am forgiven, if I truly am sorry.
    Bluey-it sounds like you have been badly hurt (or perhaps judged) by Christians/religion in your past. I am sorry for that, it was wrong. And God still loves you.
    Last edited by mishmash; Dec. 28, 2012 at 01:10 PM. Reason: to clarify


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  16. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by Guilherme View Post
    Theologically speaking one cannot be "saved" if by that you mean performing a single act that generates a permanent condition.

    Salvation comes from living live IAW the Two Great Commandments. If you do that you're probably OK. If not, then not. (In this, by the way, Martin Luther was wrong.)

    An epiphany might alter the course of a miscreant's life but the person must stay that new course. Reversion to old behaviors erases gains.

    This approach to salvation, by the way, is one of THE major differences between Catholic and Protestant theology.

    G.
    wow, you and I don't agree in the least! How interesting LOL...

    Raised Lutheran by the way. Saved by grace not by works/action or "being a good person"...


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  17. #97
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    I have always held to the belief that if you believe Christ came and died for your sins, that is being "saved". It seems the word "saved" is a put-off to so many. You remain "saved" unless you deny Christ and turn away from that belief. I really hate that these discussions seem to start arguments or controversy and folks seem to engage in mudslinging about what they believe or don't believe. I have no intention of arguing about how I feel or believe but will certainly openly claim Christ as my Savior as he would expect. If that is offensive to anyone I can't imagine why or even worry about it. I don't condemn anyone for their lifestyle or beliefs, it's not up to me. I hope we can all learn to live together and find peace in our own lives.
    PennyG


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  18. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by OneGrayPony View Post
    My son is a confirmed skeptic of...well...everything. Not just religion, tell him that the sky is blue and he's not even very sure he trusts his own eyesight. He's been like that since he was very little (which has made him incredibly difficult to raise, given that some laws of physics and society are as they are and while it's interesting to intellectually ponder their veracity, can be dangerous to do that in the physical world). He is like this moreso than normal, out of the three, he's the only one that HAS to touch the stove to see if its hot no matter what I have told him.
    You've pretty much just described me. Fortunately, this quality has made me a pretty good scientist, so it's not an entirely negative characteristic.


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  19. #99
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    Saved by grace not works. Huge fundemental in Christianity. Where does your belief that it's different come, Guilherme? Very curious.


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  20. #100
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    Quote Originally Posted by f4leggin View Post
    Saved by grace not works. Huge fundemental in Christianity. Where does your belief that it's different come, Guilherme? Very curious.
    I think if I read it right-- she/he is Catholic (?) I know other Catholics who think like this too-- have to earn heaven. Its very common in their type of christianity



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