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  1. #41
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    My husband and I were "saved" at one point then we came to our senses and realized what a hateful religion that is. I have never met such stupid, racist and cruel people. I'm now a Pagan and very happy. The first rule in my religion is be kind to everybody. We don't hate like the "born agains"


    6 members found this post helpful.

  2. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by gingerlynn View Post
    My husband and I were "saved" at one point then we came to our senses and realized what a hateful religion that is. I have never met such stupid, racist and cruel people. I'm now a Pagan and very happy. The first rule in my religion is be kind to everybody. We don't hate like the "born agains"
    I am deeply and truly sorry if you've encountered people who claimed to be Christians yet failed to demonstrate the love of Christ. They are out there and unfortunately can be the loudest voices heard.

    That being said, a third of the people in the WORLD who identify as being of a faith identify as Christian. Are you saying that 1/3 of religious people in the world are stupid, cruel, and racist? Seriously?

    If we are going to start talking rules, please see the ten commandments, the teachings of Jesus, and so forth. Christianity is rooted in love.

    I think it is wonderful that you've found a set of beliefs that meet your needs. I am glad that you have found a group of people who demonstrate love and kindness. I hope that you can reach a point where you can step back and see the fallacy with stereotyping a third of the world.


    6 members found this post helpful.

  3. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by GraceLikeRain View Post
    I am deeply and truly sorry if you've encountered people who claimed to be Christians yet failed to demonstrate the love of Christ. They are out there and unfortunately can be the loudest voices heard.

    That being said, a third of the people in the WORLD who identify as being of a faith identify as Christian. Are you saying that 1/3 of religious people in the world are stupid, cruel, and racist? Seriously?

    If we are going to start talking rules, please see the ten commandments, the teachings of Jesus, and so forth. Christianity is rooted in love.

    I think it is wonderful that you've found a set of beliefs that meet your needs. I am glad that you have found a group of people who demonstrate love and kindness. I hope that you can reach a point where you can step back and see the fallacy with stereotyping a third of the world.
    Look at the hatred of gays....I have yet to see any love and kindness. Saying things like the "one true religion" and non acceptance of others are just two things that I can say right away.


    7 members found this post helpful.

  4. #44
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    I'll be needin to get right on tellin' all my gay friends that due to me being a born again Christian I am just way too cruel, my friends of differing ethnicities I am a racist, and my college that I am stoopid. Obviously I should not be on the Deans List, must be a mistake!

    Um, so are non-white born again Christians racists too? I'll be needing to let some folks know LOL!!

    The Knotted Pony

    Proud and upstanding member of the Snort and Blow Clique.


    1 members found this post helpful.

  5. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by gingerlynn View Post
    My husband and I were "saved" at one point then we came to our senses and realized what a hateful religion that is. I have never met such stupid, racist and cruel people. I'm now a Pagan and very happy. The first rule in my religion is be kind to everybody. We don't hate like the "born agains"
    I've studied the pagan/Wicca beliefs and one of the tenants of that belief system is the "Rule of Three."

    “The Rule of Three (also threefold law or law of return) is a common tenet in Wicca. It states that both the good and the evil that one creates in the world will be returned threefold (in joy or suffering).

    I think you just put out some seriously negative energy with your post that is going to return to you three times stronger. I've found it to be pretty true...start off with negativity like that and you will probably get quite a bit sent back to you in reaction....and in the opposite, if you commit an act of kindness, it also will return to you stronger than you sent it. Good rule...and one I still like even though I now follow the teachings of Christ.

    Christians call it the Golden Rule...“Do unto others as you would have them do unto you” (Matthew 7:12)

    Christians also have the ten commandments and an entire New Testament of Jesus' teachings to try to live up to and follow. No one is perfect and you have just proven that even pagans can stray from their own belief system. I'm sorry that your experiences with Christians were so negative but please try not to paint everyone with the same brush.


    6 members found this post helpful.

  6. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by gingerlynn View Post
    Look at the hatred of gays....I have yet to see any love and kindness.
    Seriously? Honestly. You actually believe this?

    I would say around 20% of my dearest friends are bisexual or homosexual. I don't give a rat's butt about the gender of my friend's partners. All I care about is that they are in loving, respectful relationships founded on mutual trust and honesty. My ministry has several prominent members who are openly gay. No biggie. It hasn't even come up because why would it be an issue?

    Please tell me in what world that constitutes hatred?


    2 members found this post helpful.

  7. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by GraceLikeRain View Post
    Seriously? Honestly. You actually believe this?

    I would say around 20% of my dearest friends are bisexual or homosexual. I don't give a rat's butt about the gender of my friend's partners. All I care about is that they are in loving, respectful relationships founded on mutual trust and honesty. My ministry has several prominent members who are openly gay. No biggie. It hasn't even come up because why would it be an issue?

    Please tell me in what world that constitutes hatred?
    I could not follow a religion that does not respect gays, but, that is your own personal belief that you have to bear.


    1 members found this post helpful.

  8. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by gingerlynn View Post
    I could not follow a religion that does not respect gays, but, that is your own personal belief that you have to bear.
    Alright. I'm going to assume from here on out that you are a troll. It is the only logical explanation I can think of since you seem to not read the posts you quote and seem hell-bent on starting drama through perpetuating ignorance.


    3 members found this post helpful.

  9. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by gingerlynn View Post
    I could not follow a religion that does not respect gays, but, that is your own personal belief that you have to bear.
    I feel like I am in one of those "punked" episodes. Am I being trolled right now? There's no way you're serious.


    2 members found this post helpful.

  10. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by GraceLikeRain View Post
    I feel like I am in one of those "punked" episodes. Am I being trolled right now? There's no way you're serious.
    I really appreciate your honest, well-thought-out posts on this topic, I really do. I wish there were more Christians like you. But I think in this case you might be in a wee bit of denial here.
    Jigga:
    Why must you chastise my brilliant idea with facts and logic? **picks up toys (and wine) and goes home**


    6 members found this post helpful.

  11. #51
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    I don't know if I consider myself "saved," but I did very much have an epiphany moment with God. My family is not exactly what you would call religious, we say grace at holiday meals and thats about it. Growing up my mother was not into the whole church thing at all and I never went even though I always felt drawn to attend. So I suppose you could say I have always been drawn to God.

    However I never fully committed to a relationship with Him until last summer. A friend invited me to go to church with her a few times starting this past January and I got hooked. I loved the feeling of peace and positive energy. I could be in a horrible mood, but all my stress and anger would melt away as soon as I walked in. Honestly, church is as soothing for me as going to the barn. Starting to attend a weekly service helped me to begin to explore my feelings for God.

    That summer I was at an event at the Kentucky Horse Park, I was out walking cross-country. It was probably 6:45ish, still early enough for there to be a bit of morning haze. I was walking down a hill towards fence four, I paused for a moment and looked down at the rolling green hills, misty morning sun, and I just knew. The emotion washed over me and seemed to fill me. God is real, He is good, and He is my Savior.

    Since then things have changed a little bit. I don't go to church as often as I would like, especially because I've moved to a different part of the country. I still wouldn't classify myself as "religious", that word has negative connotations for me for reasons that I don't need to go into now. But I have found my faith and embraced it. God isn't necessarily at the forefront of my mind and choices, but I know He is beside me every step of the way.


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  12. #52
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    That summer I was at an event at the Kentucky Horse Park, I was out walking cross-country. It was probably 6:45ish, still early enough for there to be a bit of morning haze. I was walking down a hill towards fence four, I paused for a moment and looked down at the rolling green hills, misty morning sun, and I just knew. The emotion washed over me and seemed to fill me. God is real, He is good, and He is my Savior.

    This is how it happens! Eventerchic, Your last two sentences in your post fit me as well. I think it is probably the way many feel.
    What saddens me is the negative impression so many get from the word, religion or Christian. I have learned a lot from this and the other thread!
    "you can only ride the drama llama so hard before it decides to spit in your face." Caffeinated.


    1 members found this post helpful.

  13. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lady Eboshi View Post
    If you're NOT a believer, why not?

    For me it's pretty much summed up by "Ye canna change th' laws o'physics, Captain!"
    I'm an atheist. Just for the record that means I don't believe in a god or gods. It does not mean that I am immoral, a Satan (Christian construct btw) worshiper, "mad at god", a witch, pagan, deist, or any other such thing. It means simply that I don't believe in god(s).

    As to why, for me, it simply does not make any sense. Why is one god preferred over another? What about Quetzalcoatl, Chac, Odin, Thor, Kwatee, Brigit, Morrigan, or any of the thousands of gods people have invented throughout history. Why are they less valid? If you read some of the mythologies surrounding other gods you'll find the Christians borrowed quite a few of their concepts from them including creation myths, miraculous births, great floods, the returning prophet, the golden rule, etc. Most Christian holidays were co-opted from earlier religions.

    The old testament is full of stories of a mean, jealous, vengeful god who gets all bent out of shape if he's not worshiped the way he wants to be. Then we have Jesus coming to earth to "die" and "save" us. I can't wrap my head around why anyone thinks this "death" is such a big deal. According to the story Jesus was dead three days then ascended back to heaven where he came from to spend eternity there. I just don't see the sacrifice the way the story is written.

    That flood of emotion? I've felt that too. In church, as a child, when Christmas was coming and all sorts or excitement was in the air, and beautiful decorations and music were all around. I no longer attribute that feeling to a god. I think it's simply brain chemistry, the result of eons of evolution that favored the survival of people who were linked by a common bond and formed communities.

    I did attend church for a while as a young woman. I really wanted to believe. The more I learned the less it made sense until I finally came to the realization that I was never going to believe. I wish I could, my life would be easier. It's hard trying to explain that I'm not evil, that I don't "just want to live immorally", worship Satan, etc. I do get a kick out of people who, when hearing about my non-belief, are surprised to the point of saying "you can't be an atheist, you're too nice". It does at least give me a chance to explain what I am and why I feel that way.
    Last edited by mswillie; Dec. 27, 2012 at 01:27 PM. Reason: typo


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  14. #54
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    This article, written by Jack Kinsella, is the best explanation of the need for Christ's sacrificial death I have ever heard/seen/read. Perhaps it'll answer some questions for others too:

    * * * *

    One day as we were coming home from church, my grandson Bailey chirped, "Gwandad!! Jesus died for you!” There was a pause and he said, "He died on a Cross because bad men put him there. He was covered with boo-boos!” (Being three, Bailey is not up on all the latest medical terms, but he knew what he was talking about) "An' He died for Mummy and for Gwandma and because He loves us.”

    I was absorbing all this as I drove when Bailey asked me the next logical question, although I wasn't braced for it coming from a three-year-old.

    "Gwanddad!”

    "Yes, Bailey.”

    "Why did He have to die?”

    When we got home, I tried to explain to a three-year old something that many adult Christians have difficulty explaining. Yet it is one of the first questions posed by the skeptic.

    Why, indeed, if Jesus was God, did He have to die? To the skeptic, the whole Cross, Blood and death thing doesn't make any sense. I know many Christians to whom the answer is simply, "So He could be resurrected on the third day.”
    That was never a satisfactory answer when I was a skeptic, either.

    1 Peter 3:15 says, "But in your hearts set apart Christ as Lord. Always be prepared to give an answer to everyone who asks you to give the reason for the hope that you have. But do this with gentleness and respect,. . .” So let's do.

    The Scripture says God's Justice demands a sacrifice, but for most Christians contending with the skeptic, that answer is unsatisfactory.

    The explanation that only a sinless man was qualified to take on the sins of the world makes sense, but it doesn't answer the nuts-and-bolts question of why He had to die. Not fully.

    The answer to the nuts-and-bolts legalities is found, not in the New Testament, but rather in the Old.

    In Genesis Chapter 15, we find Abram questioning God's promise that his seed will be numbered as the stars of heaven and that they would inherit the land to which God had led him.

    Genesis 15:6 says "Abram believed the LORD, and he credited it to him as righteousness.” But Abram wanted a guarantee, nonetheless.

    "And he [Abram] said, LORD God, whereby shall I know that I shall inherit it?” (15:8)

    It was then that God proposed a blood covenant after the manner of the Chaldeans. "So the LORD said to him, "Bring me a heifer, a goat and a ram, each three years old, along with a dove and a young pigeon.”

    Abram knew what to do next, since this was something he was familiar with. "Abram brought all these to him, cut them in two and arranged the halves opposite each other; the birds, however, he did not cut in half.”

    The blood covenant worked this way. The animals were slaughtered and cut up. The pieces were intermingled and then carefully arranged to form a kind of aisle through which the two parties to the covenant would walk together, hands joined.

    The principle of a blood covenant, and the symbolism of the rended animal parts was clearly understood to Abram. Whoever broke the covenant would end up like those piles of animals.

    A blood covenant was, by common custom, a joining of two or more persons, families, clans, tribes, or nations, where the participants agree to do or refrain from doing certain acts. More specifically, God had proposed a patriarchal covenant.

    The patriarchal form of covenant is a self-imposed obligation of a superior party, to the benefit of an inferior party. In this form, the terms the parties use to refer to each other are: father and son.

    God's proposal included not only Abram, but extended to Abram's seed forever. (Galatians 3:29 makes plain that Christians are also "Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.")

    Are you still with me? Here's where we are so far. Abram has just prepared a blood covenant between himself and God in which his seed would forever be bound to God as heirs. To be an heir, under the implied terms of the covenant, also required being faithful to the Father.

    Abram understood those terms and waited for God to appear. Consider the picture. Abram waited, driving away the carrion eaters from his grisly creation, waiting for God Himself to come down, join hands with Abram and together, they would swear a blood oath. God would be the Father of Abram and his descendents, who would then be required behave as sons to keep that covenant.

    Genesis 15:12 records that as Abram waited for God, a deep sleep fell upon him. During that deep sleep, "17 When the sun had set and darkness had fallen, a smoking firepot with a blazing torch appeared and passed between the pieces. 18 On that day the LORD made a covenant with Abram and said, "To your descendants I give this land, from the river of Egypt to the great river, the Euphrates” (Genesis 15:17-18)

    And there's the key! While the covenant was between Abram and God, by passing through the aisle alone, God signed the contract -- alone -- for both sides, binding Himself to keeping both parts.

    We know that Abram's seed did NOT remain faithful to the covenant. And violating the blood covenant demanded that somebody had to die. That was what justice required.

    The Apostle Paul was, before his conversion on the road to Damascus, a Pharisee, or a religious lawyer, one well qualified to explain the law of covenant oaths. As Paul explains, "So those who have faith are blessed along with Abraham, the man of faith. (Galatians 3:9)

    And also, "Clearly no one is justified before God by the law, because, "The righteous will live by faith."” (Galations 3:11)

    Of the covenant that God signed on behalf of Abraham, Paul explains "Brothers, let me take an example from everyday life. Just as no one can set aside or add to a human covenant that has been duly established, so it is in this case.” (3:15)

    The covenant could only be confirmed when the price demanded for its violation was paid in full. When the Law was given to Moses four centuries later, it was assumed by the Jews that to break it was to break the Abrahamic Covenant, for which the penalty was death. Remember, somebody had to die. But God signed on behalf of Abraham, and Paul pointed out the blood penalty required of the covenant was paid in full.

    "And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect.”

    Why did Jesus have to die
    ? Because the covenant demanded satisfactory payment for its violation, and no one who had broken that covenant was qualified to stand in payment except those who signed it.

    And God signed on behalf of Abram and his seed.

    It is for that reason that God stepped out of eternity and into space and time. To keep the provisions of the original covenant and be a true Son, as it demanded.

    And having kept its terms on behalf of sinful humanity, it was incumbent upon Him to make payment, as justice demanded, for its violation by those on whose behalf the covenant was signed.

    To be torn and rended like the animals that formed the corridor through which God alone passed.

    "He was despised and rejected by men, a man of sorrows, and familiar with suffering. Like one from whom men hide their faces he was despised, and we esteemed him not.” (Isaiah 53:3)

    To make restitution on behalf of the seed of Abraham. You. Me. And everyone who ever broke its provision of faithfulness. All of us.

    Jesus made that payment on our behalf. On the Cross, as He gave up the ghost, Jesus cried with a loud voice 'it is finished' (Tetelestai! meaning, literally, "paid in full.”)

    The terms of the violated Covenant were met, its price was paid by its Signer. God's justice was fulfilled. That is why Jesus took on a human form and allowed Himself to be crucified by His own creation. That is the reason the Blood of Christ is so precious. Why nothing less would do.

    Because justice demanded it.

    "For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish but have eternal life.” (John 3:16)
    <>< Sorrow Looks Back. Worry Looks Around. Faith Looks Up! -- Being negative only makes a difficult journey more difficult. You may be given a cactus, but you don't have to sit on it.


    6 members found this post helpful.

  15. #55
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    This sort of thing is often posted by local born agains.....I find it offensive.....that if you mock god you will die. Did the children that died in CT mock god?



    DID YOU KNOW THESE FACTS?

    Very interesting, read until the end.....
    It is written in the Bible (Galatians 6:7): Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.

    Here are some men and women who mocked God :

    John Lennon (Singer):
    Some years before, during his interview with an American Magazine,
    he said:
    "Christianity will end, it will disappear.I do not have to argue about that.. I am certain.
    Jesus was ok, but his subjects were too simple, today we are more famous
    than Him' (1966).
    Lennon, after saying that the Beatles were more famous than Jesus Christ,
    was shot six times.

    Tancredo Neves (President of Brazil ):
    During the Presidential campaign, he said if he got 500,000 votes from his party, not even God would remove him from Presidency.
    Sure he got the votes, but he got sick a day before being made President, then
    he died.

    Cazuza (Bi-sexual Brazilian composer, singer and poet):
    During A show in Canecio ( Rio de Janeiro ),
    while smoking his cigarette, he puffed out some smoke into the air and
    said:'God, that's for you.' He died at the age of 32 of LUNG CANCER in a horrible manner.

    The man who built the Titanic.
    After the construction of Titanic, a reporter asked him how safe the Titanic would be.
    With an ironic tone he said: "Not even God can sink it"
    The result: I think you all know what happened to the Titanic

    Marilyn Monroe (Actress)
    She was visited by Billy Graham during a presentation of a show.
    He said the Spirit of God had sent him to preach to her.
    After hearing what the Preacher had to say, she said: "I don't need your Jesus".
    A week later, she was found dead in her apartment

    Bon Scott (Singer)
    The ex-vocalist of the AC/DC. On one of his 1979 songs he sang:
    "Don't stop me; I'm going down all the way, down the highway to hell".
    On the 19th of February 1980, Bon Scott was found dead, he had been choked by his own vomit.
    Campinas (IN 2005)

    In Campinas , Brazil a group of friends, drunk, went to pick up a friend.....
    The mother accompanied her to the car and was so worried about the
    drunkenness of her friends and she said to the daughter holding her hand,
    who was already seated in the car:
    "My Daughter, Go With God And May He Protect You"
    She responded: "Only If He (God) Travels In The Trunk, Cause Inside
    Here.....It's Already Full"
    Hours later, news came by that they had been involved in a fatal accident,
    everyone had died, the car could not be recognized what type of car it had been, but
    surprisingly, the trunk was intact.
    The police said there was no way the trunk could have remained intact. To
    their surprise, inside the trunk was a crate of eggs, none was broken

    Christine Hewitt (Jamaican Journalist and entertainer) said the Bible (Word
    of God) was the worst book ever written.
    In June 2006 she was found burnt beyond recognition in her motor vehicle.

    Many more important people have forgotten that there is no other name
    that was given so much authority as the name of Jesus.
    Many have died, but only Jesus died and rose again, and he is still alive....
    'Jesus'
    Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.






















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  16. #56
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    Ohhhh Kay!
    "Kindness is free" ~ Eurofoal
    ---
    The CoTH CYA - please consult w/your veterinarian under any and all circumstances.



  17. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lady Eboshi View Post
    If you're NOT a believer, why not?

    For me it's pretty much summed up by "Ye canna change th' laws o'physics, Captain!"
    Agreed.

    No logic, no scientific proof. AND if god is so good etc, then he must be the good god that allows horrific natural disasters, genocide, and worst of all, child abuse. Yup, protector of the innocents.

    I do see how so many folks (including some of my closest friends) have religion as a central/centering focus in their life and I support their right to that.



  18. #58
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    The people who are posting as agnostics, atheists, sceptics, all mention religion. As someone else said-it is not a religion, it is a relationship. I'm not much fond of religion, either, and neither was Jesus.
    In todays world, it can be very hard to hear the quiet voice of God-you must be able to listen. Sometime, be still, be by yourself, and just quietly ask God to speak to your heart, and make His presence known in your life. He will!
    And to the poster who talked about the emotion she would feels ometimes in church when holidays were near-the emotion people are speaking of when coming to know God is not that-it is NOTHING like that.
    We live in a fallen world-bad things happen to innocent, blameless people. There are rules of nature, and we do live under them also. Can God change those-sure he could. But man has free will, just as our children grow up to be their own people, have their own ideas-even ideas we don't approve of. And part of raising a child is to let them suffer the consequences of their actions, and sometimes, the consequences of other peoples actions.


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  19. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by gingerlynn View Post
    Look at the hatred of gays....I have yet to see any love and kindness. Saying things like the "one true religion" and non acceptance of others are just two things that I can say right away.
    Geez, get out much? Not all Christians hate gays and not all Christians are unaccepting of different religions. I'm an atheist myself, but I have enough different kinds of Christians in my life that I know that you cannot paint all Christians with the same, broad, brush.


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  20. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by mishmash View Post
    The people who are posting as agnostics, atheists, sceptics, all mention religion. As someone else said-it is not a religion, it is a relationship.

    well they don't want a relationship. Can you not see they just DO NOT BELIEVE? its just not so simple for some to believe in God.

    How about I tell you to believe in the tooth fairy? see? to them its the same thing.


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