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  1. #261
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    Quote Originally Posted by LMH View Post
    oh wow...no...not even close.

    John the Baptist was actually the cousin of Jesus.

    He came first to prepare they way for the coming Messiah, Jesus Christ.

    John never tried to convert people to "his belief."

    Does anyone actually read the Bible? The account of Jesus and John is in Mark Chapter 1.

    sorry callie but that is one of the odder 'misinformations' I have read.
    There is actually a Jewish ritual, very similar to baptizing.
    Mikveh
    http://www.myjewishlearning.com/life...s/Mikveh.shtml

    curiously similar. According to one Jewish opinion, that is.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bristol Bay View Post
    Try setting your broomstick to fly at a lower altitude.
    GNU Terry Prachett


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  2. #262
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    Quote Originally Posted by LMH View Post
    oh wow...no...not even close.

    John the Baptist was actually the cousin of Jesus.

    He came first to prepare they way for the coming Messiah, Jesus Christ.

    John never tried to convert people to "his belief."

    Does anyone actually read the Bible? The account of Jesus and John is in Mark Chapter 1.

    sorry callie but that is one of the odder 'misinformations' I have read.
    John the Baptist and Jesus were contemporaneous. They both preached. They both had followers. Christians, and several other religions believe John came to prepare the way. Other religions, the Mandaeans for example, believed John was the Messiah and Jesus was an imposter.


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  3. #263
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bluey View Post
    Maybe you are not looking in the right places?

    Look around you, organized religion gets all the press about doing this and that community work, but is that all that is out there, really?

    You too subscribe to the idea of so many faithful that everyone else is not a "good" person, doesn't do for others where needed, etc.?

    Not at all - I am an atheist, and like to think I'm a "good" person. Certainly far from perfect, and likely always will be, but I don't do horrible things and I try and hold myself to a high standard of living. Because I think it's the right thing to do; not because some higher power, or book, or something is pressuring me to do so.

    However you prove my point - religion DOES get all the press. I want to know why? I see commercials for sponsoring children in impoverished countries, but most are Christian based, and therefore not something I'd eagerly donate to. As many have pointed out, if I go look around and do some searching, I will probably find all sorts of non-denominational do-gooders. But why do I have to look so hard? Why is it only religious (usually Christian) organizations that are so in-your-face? I'm just curious. Is it a certain "sales" type of personality that is drawn to religion, and therefore they have a larger population of self-promoters? I don't know. I'm tired and can't think straight and just speculating. So many good questions have been raised on this thread!



  4. #264
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    Quote Originally Posted by LauraKY View Post
    Ah, because your version of religious myth is the right one?
    I ask you, who are you to say it is a Myth?
    If you believe in something it is your right, Do you know for a Fact that it is a myth? Strong statement!
    "you can only ride the drama llama so hard before it decides to spit in your face." Caffeinated.


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  5. #265
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    It has been several decadds since I read the Bible, bit didn't John actually preach that he was there to pave the way for the Messiah to come? And Johm baptized Jesis and, if I recall correctly, initially told Jesus that he was not worthy enougj to baptize him, bit Jesus insisted?

    I see I'm going to have to dust off my Bible and reread a whole lot of it after this discussion.


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  6. #266
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    Quote Originally Posted by minnie View Post
    It has been several decadds since I read the Bible, bit didn't John actually preach that he was there to pave the way for the Messiah to come? And Johm baptized Jesis and, if I recall correctly, initially told Jesus that he was not worthy enougj to baptize him, bit Jesus insisted?

    I see I'm going to have to dust off my Bible and reread a whole lot of it after this discussion.

    Correct. Go to the book of Mark


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  7. #267
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    Quote Originally Posted by LMH View Post
    Correct. Go to the book of Mark
    Thanks! It's been more than 40 years! Not bad for an old broad,huh? Just don'task me what I read yesterday. Short term memory sucks!



  8. #268
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    Quote Originally Posted by cyberbay View Post
    As Tuesday's Child said... " I just have to question why the good deeds being done have to be under the heading of religion - why can't a group of like-minded charitable individuals of any faith or lack thereof come together to do such great things? "

    Why do religious people have to ascribe their abilities, luck, whatever, to a higher being? Did it ever occur to the religious folk who believe that God is at their side that maybe they are simply sensing their own, innate human potential? That by ascribing to a god, you are demeaning yourself and basically saying that You couldn't be capable of doing such a good thing, or be so accomplished, etc., it must be because of somebody else you realized/achieved as you did?

    And by that outlook, you are demeaning everyone around you, because you don't think they are capable, or won't allow that person to be that capable?

    To me, people like that are just replaying a demeaned, emotionally chaotic childhood, and if you were to dig a little with these people, you would find trauma, possibly A LOT of trauma. And believing in a god is a way of avoiding the real, hard work of addressing that trauma, and of not feeling alone anymore, after a childhood of emotional isolation. I haven't met one religious person who doesn't have serious emotional trauma in there. Even C.S. Lewis had a very, very bad go of it.

    (I do believe that some people are mystics and have deep connections to the universe.)
    Yep, the REAL HARD work is being completely honest with your own being. It is hard, there are things about yourself that can be unpleasant. You are asking for a gods forgiveness when you really need to ask yourself.

    For you older folks that have seen the epic The Ten Commandments, "I am...that I am. Thou shalt have no other gods before me." How about, "I am that I am I shalt have no other gods before me."


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  9. #269
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    Quote Originally Posted by sunridge1 View Post
    Yep, the REAL HARD work is being completely honest with your own being. It is hard, there are things about yourself that can be unpleasant. You are asking for a gods forgiveness when you really need to ask yourself.

    For you older folks that have seen the epic The Ten Commandments, "I am...that I am. Thou shalt have no other gods before me." How about, "I am that I am I shalt have no other gods before me."
    Most humans still don't seem to be wired for that, but for finding a group that fits them and follow it.
    The ultimate in the faithful are cults, where the individual is completely negated for the good of the group and it's goals.

    Most people thankfully fall in the middle, with a drive to search and belong, mediated with a bit of rational thinking for self preservation.

    On the other end are those that are so anti social as not caring for anyone, some times not even themselves.

    Then there is pathology, on both ends also, over the board to the point of perhaps being harmful to self and others.

    There is a very deep rightness to being wired for faith.
    It comes from the more primitive parts of our brain, thru the emotional centers, directly lighting the pleasure centers.
    The rational, frontal cortex not always even engaged and when it is, is mostly to validate the feelings of rightness in their faith.
    See the study of the Dana institute.


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  10. #270
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bluey View Post
    Most humans still don't seem to be wired for that, but for finding a group that fits them and follow it.
    The ultimate in the faithful are cults, where the individual is completely negated for the good of the group and it's goals.

    Most people thankfully fall in the middle, with a drive to search and belong, mediated with a bit of rational thinking for self preservation.

    On the other end are those that are so anti social as not caring for anyone, some times not even themselves.

    Then there is pathology, on both ends also, over the board to the point of perhaps being harmful to self and others.

    There is a very deep rightness to being wired for faith.
    It comes from the more primitive parts of our brain, thru the emotional centers, directly lighting the pleasure centers.
    The rational, frontal cortex not always even engaged and when it is, is mostly to validate the feelings of rightness in their faith.
    See the study of the Dana institute.
    I respectfully disagree woth all of this.


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  11. #271
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sannois View Post
    I ask you, who are you to say it is a Myth?
    If you believe in something it is your right, Do you know for a Fact that it is a myth? Strong statement!
    Because the word "mythology" is the correct term for a narrative of a belief system? Whether its Greco-Roman, Christian, Muslim, Zoroastrian, Native American, it's all a "mythology," because it's a story that explains a belief system. There's nothing pejorative about the term.

    Whether you believe that narrative of belief system is the "correct" one is a personal choice.


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  12. #272
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    Quote Originally Posted by minnie View Post
    I respectfully disagree woth all of this.
    Yeah, I am not very good at explaining things, but there is enough information that those that want to know more can find all they want out there based on that.
    Neurobiology is a very interesting science that is adding knowledge extremely fast today, with all new kinds of brain scan possibilities that keep coming out.
    I have a friend that is a researcher in that field, one of the new frontiers of science.



  13. #273
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    Quote Originally Posted by minnie View Post
    I respectfully disagree woth all of this.
    She's right on the brain difference:

    http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases...0304160400.htm
    Join the Clinton 2016 campaign...Hillary For America. https://www.hillaryclinton.com/



  14. #274
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bluey View Post
    Most humans still don't seem to be wired for that, but for finding a group that fits them and follow it.
    The ultimate in the faithful are cults, where the individual is completely negated for the good of the group and it's goals.

    Most people thankfully fall in the middle, with a drive to search and belong, mediated with a bit of rational thinking for self preservation.

    On the other end are those that are so anti social as not caring for anyone, some times not even themselves.

    Then there is pathology, on both ends also, over the board to the point of perhaps being harmful to self and others.

    There is a very deep rightness to being wired for faith.
    It comes from the more primitive parts of our brain, thru the emotional centers, directly lighting the pleasure centers.
    The rational, frontal cortex not always even engaged and when it is, is mostly to validate the feelings of rightness in their faith.
    See the study of the Dana institute.
    Now we're talking. This is what I've been after. The science behind religion. YAY!


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  15. #275
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    And I'm still a caveman. I am learning/teaching myself to stop fight or flight mode. Very interesting.



  16. #276
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    Ha! I knew it, knew it, knew it. I'm ectastic. Thanks Bluey and Laura. woot!



  17. #277
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    Quote Originally Posted by LauraKY View Post
    She's right on the brain difference:

    http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases...0304160400.htm
    Fascinating article. It's so . . . human. We seek out what we need. So, religious people tend to have less ability to deal with making mistakes and resolving them, so they seek out something that helps them with it. Hopefully, the religion is something that makes them a better person, and not something that uses that inability to deal with mistakes by making them into a hateful person.


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  18. #278
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beentheredonethat View Post
    Fascinating article. It's so . . . human. We seek out what we need. So, religious people tend to have less ability to deal with making mistakes and resolving them, so they seek out something that helps them with it. Hopefully, the religion is something that makes them a better person, and not something that uses that inability to deal with mistakes by making them into a hateful person.
    The article never said that people who are religious have less ability to deal with their mistakes or uncertainty, just that they are less stressed out about those things.

    Your post however is a perfect example of a human seeing what she wants to see so it will fit with her beliefs.


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  19. #279
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    Now, lets remember these studies are not about if God exist or not, if He made the universe and all in it or not or any other such questions.

    This is about how humans tick and part of that is how they tick when they are following some faith or not.
    There are other such studies out there, one linked to the Dana institute one was a bit different, some have been more involved.

    Science presents what it finds, changes as new knowledge supersedes old, is not written in stone, not something to believe firmly because some studies said so.
    Plus this is a fairly new field too, we don't know that much yet about how the very interesting and complex human mind putters on.



  20. #280
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    Quote Originally Posted by grayarabpony View Post
    The article never said that people who are religious have less ability to deal with their mistakes or uncertainty, just that they are less stressed out about those things.

    Your post however is a perfect example of a human seeing what she wants to see so it will fit with her beliefs.
    ""We found that religious people or even people who simply believe in the existence of God show significantly less brain activity in relation to their own errors. They're much less anxious and feel less stressed when they have made an error."

    This is from the article. They do not feel as stressed when making erros, so have less ability and desire to deal with them and correct them. I'm not fitting anything into any beliefs. It's logic. If you don't feel an error is a big problem, then you're not going to deal with it.


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