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  1. #61
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    I was raised an Episcopalian and never really understood the relationship between the church and Jesus Christ. It was more about rituals than the actual teachings in the Bible. To better understand, I have set out to read the Bible, the Koran and the Book of Mormon. Muslims, Jews and Christians all came from Abraham. Mormons, while utilizing some teachings of Jesus Christ, based their faith on revelations received by Joseph Smith. There are many misconceptions about all faiths. Reading each holy book is the best way to understand.


    3 members found this post helpful.

  2. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by sunridge1 View Post
    My question is, why do some people require religious faith while others do not?
    I don't think it's that people require faith,but rather they accept faith. I, personally feel humbled by the fact that God loves me uncomditionally,even though I do not feel worthy of that love. I feel that religion is manmade and faith is God given, if that makes sense.


    3 members found this post helpful.

  3. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alagirl View Post
    Easter actually is a close resemblance of passover, of course, to convert the heathens, they had to be creative, this chicks, and bunnies.
    I am amazed how many Christians do not know that Jesus was celebrating Passover during the last supper. Jesus was Jewish after all. How it evolved to something so different like bunnies, chicks and eating ham, is a mystery.


    5 members found this post helpful.

  4. #64
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    Nov. 2, 2001
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    Quote Originally Posted by PonyPenny View Post
    I am amazed how many Christians do not know that Jesus was celebrating Passover during the last supper. Jesus was Jewish after all. How it evolved to something so different like bunnies, chicks and eating ham, is a mystery.
    no mystery at all.
    the old pagans had their fun festivities. eggs, because of the seemingly dead thing sprouting life, rabbits, because, well, they are fruitful and multiply....spring/fertility stuff...
    and a good steal is better than a bad invention.

    The newly converted flock would not leave the parties behind, so, if you can't beat them, join them!
    Quote Originally Posted by Mozart View Post
    Personally, I think the moderate use of shock collars in training humans should be allowed.


    3 members found this post helpful.

  5. #65
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    Dec. 1, 1999
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    Larksmom, this is exactly what turns me off about the religious. I realize that not everyone is like you and don't judge but isn't that Jesus' main point. Don't judge others? The three most racist people I know go to church every Sunday and view themselves as devout Christians.




    I guess I was looking into my own life. I am sorry if I said something wrong. But as I said, I was raised outside the church. My dad cheated openly on my mom. I ran around with creepy men in my 20's. Most of my friends were in crappy marriages, or relationships. When I began to go to church, I met men who could openly say they had loved their wives, and were open about being Christians. I don't know if they were drinkers, or cheated on their wives. There are a lot of divorced people in my church, so sure they are troubled. As am I. I should probably edit that post. Christians are humble-or at least supposed to be. I think that is what non Christians feel so offended by.

    And DB, what Christians believe is that if you do not believe that Christ is your Lord and Savior, you will not go to heaven.
    You guys should look up the little book, Heaven is for real. It is less than 200 pages. It is about the faith of a 4 year old boy.
    Another killer of threads



  6. #66
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    Oct. 24, 2001
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    Quote Originally Posted by PonyPenny View Post
    I am amazed how many Christians do not know that Jesus was celebrating Passover during the last supper. Jesus was Jewish after all. How it evolved to something so different like bunnies, chicks and eating ham, is a mystery.
    And Passover was celebrated around the time of a much more ancient festival--the spring equinox, when rebirth and fertility were celebrated. Hence, rabbits and eggs


    4 members found this post helpful.

  7. #67
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    Mar. 25, 2011
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    Funny thing, my mom is getting ordained into the Anglican church on Jan 18 in Trinidad.

    I was raised Anglican and it didn't take. As an adult I started on some kind of journey about a decade ago. It started with the Quakers -I'm a Quaker. The trouble with Quakerism is that it encourages the individual to think and to wait and to hear. There is no intercession by clergy. Well that did what no amount of proselytism could do -it made me start thinking about all kinds of things religious and spiritual. I went Plain, and recently started worshiping with some local Dunkard Brethren.

    As to the OP's question -I can't answer that at all. My journey is highly personal and my conviction is constantly expanding. I can tell you something that is truth to me today and who knows what it will be tomorrow. Besides -how do you answer the question other than by quoting doctrine? I mean it's like asking someone why s/he loves his companion? Sure there are tangible things, but there is an intangible, gut-level conviction too and it can't be explained.

    Paula
    He is total garbage! Quick! Hide him on my trailer (Petstorejunkie).


    5 members found this post helpful.

  8. #68
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    Feb. 28, 2006
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    Quote Originally Posted by MunchingonHay View Post
    Emperor Justinian I was Theodora's husband and is considered a saint among ortho. Christians. And they were 100 or so years AFTER Constantine who is the reason for the spread of Christianity thought out the Holy Roman Empire.


    So you were close, but no cigar.
    Rats. Well I never could keep track of my Romans, or Byzantines.

    Still, this thread is pretty informative and certainly fitting for the day.
    Courageous Weenie Eventer Wannabe
    Incredible Invisible



  9. #69
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    Wow. I posted this last night, struggling with my thoughts. What great discussion, and I appreciate everyone's kind offers and explanations. I skimmed through everything, but have not read thoroughly with four PAGES to catch up on!

    So, NO insult meant to anyone who believes, again. I really don't get or want to necessarily "get" believing in some higher being. My question is why so many people NEED to. I think the questions brought up about why people need/desire a religion is more the focus of it. Again, (and PLEASE no one take this as an insult) it seems an easier way out to believe in some higher power and a religion and a pastor to tell you want to do instead of taking responsibility for yourself and knowing you know what to do and how to behave, and that's how you seek peace within yourself and find your place in the world.

    We do seem hardwired to believe in religions/spirituality, I'm sure because it bonds people together, which is essential for survival. Religion has also been a masterful tool to control the masses (having taught medieval history for 10 years--I'm finally away from that--but that seems the focus of all religions in cultures.)

    I guess what got me is this church seemed like a really good group of people and a good pastor (and I was watching Piers Morgan interview the Saddleback pastor who seemed the same way.) It seems like good people to be with. My SO is from a communist country and goes over there to play basketball sometimes, and they ask him if he wants to know Jesus, and then leave him along. I just don't get the part where it's just SO focused on going back to "giving in" to God and Jesus. A student gave me an historical book on the life of Jesus, which I read, and from what I know, he would have been appalled at the whole idea. Why can't you just be good people and good to each other and do good instead of SO much focus on the worship thing? Wouldn't that serve the purpose better and not be so . . . I don't now how to say it.


    7 members found this post helpful.

  10. #70
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    Jun. 3, 2003
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    Quote Originally Posted by Larksmom View Post
    ...if you do not believe that Christ is your Lord and Savior, you will not go to heaven...
    Shrug. Not for me. Not credulous. And not prone to tribalism; just don't think that I, and people like me, are any better than anyone else.


    10 members found this post helpful.

  11. #71
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    Nov. 25, 2005
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    Well the questions about Christian holidays coming from Pagan ones spiked my interest and I googled a bit and got this website
    http://www.pocm.info/index.html

    Appears to be fairly factual without being prejudice in some way towards or against Christianity. Interesting to those that wish to know more.


    2 members found this post helpful.

  12. #72
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    well, you are wondering about the need.

    an old coworker of my mom's suggested that the church mice had 'soul trouble'
    the congregation fills a void in their lives. A need.
    to belong, to be part of something bigger, I don't know.

    And they are welcome to fill the need.
    But not when they need to missionize bystanders.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mozart View Post
    Personally, I think the moderate use of shock collars in training humans should be allowed.


    3 members found this post helpful.

  13. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by JenEM View Post
    And Passover was celebrated around the time of a much more ancient festival--the spring equinox, when rebirth and fertility were celebrated. Hence, rabbits and eggs
    I would go further and say hence the entire resurrection myth. Anyone who has ever studied Greek mythology will see the similarities in the types of stories. My ninth graders read Bernard Evslin's Heroes, Gods and Monsters of the Greek Myths and even they can see the connection, and those myths are older, so...they can draw their own conclusions.

    We read Genesis alongside the myths of Prometheus and Pandora as these myths both explain how mankind fell from grace and became mortal.

    As to whether we are hard-wired for religion, I would again point out that most of the world's religions have their origins in trying to explain some natural phenomenon. Now we have science to do that for us.

    Also, go back and read Genesis, the Adam and Eve story. There it all is: the subjugation of women, dominion, or the justification for disregarding ecosystems or the environment, and, as luck would have it, the weekend.
    A helmet saved my life.

    2014 goal: learn to ride like TheHorseProblem, er, a barn rat!


    6 members found this post helpful.

  14. #74
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    Apr. 3, 2006
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    I asked those questions because I think the religion business has been misguided and misinterpreted for 1000's of years.

    I once had an epiphany that literally changed my life, particularly how I regarded most things. I forgave myself. It changed my life.


    6 members found this post helpful.

  15. #75
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    Oct. 24, 2001
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bristol Bay View Post
    I would go further and say hence the entire resurrection myth. Anyone who has ever studied Greek mythology will see the similarities in the types of stories.
    Very true. But as a happy atheist, I was trying not to wade too deeply into this morass Most of the mythology is not at all unique to Christianity, or even the western religions.


    9 members found this post helpful.

  16. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by sunridge1 View Post
    I asked those questions because I think the religion business has been misguided and misinterpreted for 1000's of years.

    I once had an epiphany that literally changed my life, particularly how I regarded most things. I forgave myself. It changed my life.
    I think this is what I'm getting at. Why don't we do this instead of going through the intermediary of religion?


    6 members found this post helpful.

  17. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by JenEM View Post
    Very true. But as a happy atheist, I was trying not to wade too deeply into this morass Most of the mythology is not at all unique to Christianity, or even the western religions.
    Zactly.
    A helmet saved my life.

    2014 goal: learn to ride like TheHorseProblem, er, a barn rat!


    1 members found this post helpful.

  18. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by JenEM View Post
    Very true. But as a happy atheist, I was trying not to wade too deeply into this morass Most of the mythology is not at all unique to Christianity, or even the western religions.
    This is kind of my perspective. Most religious mythology is recycled and you will see it and its forms in a multitude of religions. Honestly, the mythology of the Bible and the Qu'ran are not that different, with a few dramatic exceptions...

    There has been some very interesting discussion here. Unfortunately some of the posts have come across as (unintentionally, I think) condescending. I am always somewhat perturbed when posts about "the consequences of not accepting Jesus" and the difference in sin between Christian and non-Christian homes (just for the record, most Americans are Christians...it is impossible for all of the domestic violence in the nation to take place in non-Christian homes) and saying things like 9/11 had to do with the fact that they hadn't accepted Jesus. These kinds of things put me off organized religion. My own thinking and research put me off the concept of a god or higher power. I see a lot of people saying they are open about diverse faiths, but some of their posts indicate a tremendous prejudice.

    Some of the discussion here has been fascinating, though. Thanks.


    12 members found this post helpful.

  19. #79
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    I think life, our relationship with god is simple, life makes it complicated. God lives within each one of us. As you move, give, receive, you are interacting with god on a moment by moment basis. God is not outside of us, god lives within all of us; within all life, including current, past and future life's.

    Simplity said, "When I see you, I see god" Each one of us are very beautiful and powerful, if we only believed and do thy will, rather than our will on a day by day basis.

    Quote Originally Posted by Beentheredonethat View Post

    Do you know what I mean? I'm not trying to start a fight or put anyone down, but it's kind of hard to ask people who truly believe this. WHY do you have to worship Jesus/God, and not just be a good person on your own? I get the community thing, but . . .


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  20. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beentheredonethat View Post
    I think this is what I'm getting at. Why don't we do this instead of going through the intermediary of religion?
    because not everybody can.
    Because most people need their hand held.

    Those who can rest happily within themselves.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mozart View Post
    Personally, I think the moderate use of shock collars in training humans should be allowed.


    4 members found this post helpful.

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