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  1. #221
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    As in the other thread, I am concerned with doing right, whether it be guided by religious principals, as in your case, or my sense of morality. Either one does not justify the idea that we shouldn't be fair because people have more opportunities, are lucky, "better," meaner, sneakier, cheat, or whatever.

    So, yeah, I want more fair. It will never be fair. Life never is. But, I think it's up to good, moral, thinking people to always go towards that goal, whatever your justification might be. It really stuns me that you think there shouldn't be fairness in life, or an attempt at it. Why not just go back to an aristocracy where you are born into the class that deems what is fair for you, then?

    And, on that lines, yeah, it is not fair that people who are already rich and don't have to work pay way less in taxes than people who work.

    Proverbs 16:11 - A just weight and balance [are] the LORD'S: all the weights of the bag [are] his work.

    Proverbs 31:9 - Open thy mouth, judge righteously, and plead the cause of the poor and needy.

    God expects fairness in business transactions. It's in the Bible, Proverbs 16:11, TLB. "The Lord demands fairness in every business deal. He established this principle."



  2. #222
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    Nov. 18, 2010
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    Jesus has control over the US budget......I think you may need to clear that with the Jewish community, Hindu community Muslims and all others.

    If your voice is so secular then defend your tunnel vision.



  3. #223
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    Aug. 4, 2011
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    Quote Originally Posted by stolen virtue View Post
    Uhmm, you do know that Bush never included his war expenses in his budgets....Oh sorry, facts just keep coming up... I know the GOP won't let facts get in their way...
    This is the stupidist thing I have heard, the cost of the wars werent included in budgets,,,, hahahahaha

    I have heard estimates that the wars cost an extra 2 - 2.5 trillion,,,,, The wars were funded by a vote of congress and authorizing of the president.

    SO WHT does that have to do with the price of tea in china. Really



  4. #224
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    OMG, stolen. It's amazing, isn't it? WOW. Seriously?

    http://www.nytimes.com/2009/02/20/us...dget.html?_r=0
    "As for war costs, Mr. Bush included little or none in his annual military budgets, instead routinely asking Congress for supplemental appropriations during the year. Mr. Obama will include cost projections for every year through the 2019 fiscal year to cover “overseas military contingencies” — nearly $500 billion over 10 years.

    For Medicare, Mr. Bush routinely budgeted less than actual costs for payments to physicians, although he and Congress regularly waived a law mandating the lower reimbursements for fear that doctors would quit serving beneficiaries in protest.

    Mr. Obama will budget $401 billion over 10 years for higher costs and interest on the debt."

    http://www.wired.com/dangerroom/2009...ighing-the-ir/

    http://www.ombwatch.org/node/3612



  5. #225
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    Crickets? Apologies? Thanks for actual facts?



  6. #226
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    Jul. 14, 2003
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    MA
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    Another small piece of the puzzle--

    Can we please cut agricultural subsidies? First thing on the news this morning: lawmakers could not agree on taxes or cuts, but they passed legislation extending price supports for milk. While there still are (I suppose) some small dairy farms, most agriculture these days is done by factory farms owned by big corporations. Not to mention the fact that we don't need to subsidize CORN anymore. Corn is so cheap (because of subsidies) that they have to look for ways to get rid of it. That's why HFCS is in virtually everything. Corn is even being used to make cat litter now! Agribusiness has a very strong lobby in congress.

    If we have to subsidize something, how about the cancer drugs for which there is a short supply? Those cancer drugs that have become so cheap to make that manufacturers don't bother to make them any more. At least that would contribute to people's health, unlike these agricultural subsidies that subsidize some very unhealthful things.
    "Against stupidity the gods themselves contend in vain" ~Friedrich Schiller



  7. #227
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    Feb. 28, 2001
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    EH agree 100%



  8. #228
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    Feb. 28, 2001
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    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z6zM1WYhwPw

    I have posted this before but will post again. It is 42 minutes, a piece by John Stossell on the absurd spending.

    If this information was made more 'public' I bet there would not be so many battles between the parties and the people would be appalled as a unit.

    This is why the government needs to be LESS INVOLVED on every level



  9. #229
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    Dec. 27, 2012
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    Paradise
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    I think we should not give a lot of head to what govt doing with tax rates and their budgets, as we can't do much in this concern to bring about a change. But what we can do, is to reduce some extra and less necessary spending and expenses in our routine and try to save as much of our money as we can. As this is the best way to to reduce spending and increase our income.


    1 members found this post helpful.

  10. #230
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    BTDT, first of all I have no idea why you are pulling out quotes from the Bible when you neither believe it or understand it.

    Secondly, I believe in fairness of OPPORTUNITY.

    Do I have the RIGHT to be a cover model on Vogue?

    Does every man have the RIGHT to be a QB for a football team?

    People not not equally gifted in all areas. Simple fact of life.

    People are not equally motivated, equally driven, equally financially responsible or equally moral.

    So you equal the opportunity as best you can and support those that truly 'can't'

    Very simple.


    4 members found this post helpful.

  11. #231
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beentheredonethat View Post


    And, on that lines, yeah, it is not fair that people who are already rich and don't have to work pay way less in taxes than people who work.
    What makes you think all 'wealthy' are sitting around eating bon bons? The successful people I know are successful because each butts ass every single day. Often to the exclusion of any pleasure in life.

    And I assure you most pay far more taxes. FAR more.

    The overal percentage of income may be less because of loopholes (which I disagree with) but the total $$ amount is more.

    A very tiny percentage of our country pays the largest dollar amount of taxes.

    You want fair? A flat tax for all.

    Fair. I work more and earn more then I pay more dollars.

    Simple. Clean. Efficient.

    You and others with your narrow view do not want FAIR-you feel entitled to what I have earned.

    47% of our country shares your views and that is why we will continue to be a country in decline.

    If you don't like you financial situation get off you butt, get a better education, work harder, try more, and do better.

    My parents came from NOTHING and my dad worked 2 jobs 7 days a week in his early career. He earned every single dollar working hard...no silver spoon, no high end education.

    He worked. And worked more. And saved. And never lived beyond his means. He sacrificed and saved.

    He was honest, operated with integrity and oh...he worked well into his 70's.

    SO no I do not think you or anyone else is 'entitled' to what he earned in the name of fairness.

    AND as commanded by the God he worshipped and glorified his entire life he tithed (that means gave 10%) of his time, talents and money to those less privileged.


    He is just ONE example of literally hundreds of men and women and families that I PERSONALLY know.

    What percentage of your income and time do you share with those less privileged?

    Your notion that anyone that is successful is some greedy lazy corporation is just plain ignorant.


    6 members found this post helpful.

  12. #232
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    May. 25, 2006
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    Well said LMH. BTDT has a very narrow view point and is equally ignorant of the facts.


    6 members found this post helpful.

  13. #233
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    Jul. 12, 2010
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    The saddest thing of all?? the media has done it's job, in pitting us against each other.

    Most of us would probably be able to agree on the majority of things that would help.. BUT. The media LOVE to spew THEIR POV, not the news. It ticks people off, and thus it begins.

    But, we the people?

    Do we need SO MANY Congress people per state? It's not like they listen to us anyway, so we wouldn't really be missing anything.

    Do they NEED to make $174,900 per year, plus FREE gym, parking, haircuts, lunch, bottled water, etc, etc

    And let's not forget that pension, folks. And total job security with no accountability for doing a good job, heck, any job!!
    (google that congresswoman who spent time and OUR money trying to get a resolution or whatever it is to make it ok to wear hats on the floor of Congress!) ARE YOU KIDDING ME!!

    DO they need so many staffers??
    And they social security and medicare - do we not pay a portion of our paychecks into this all our working lives, but somehow they are "entitlements?"

    Uhhm no. Charlie Rangel, your tax free Costa Rica property - THAT's AN ENTITLEMENT.

    Oh, and how much taxes do the Obamas pay - bet you their percentage is less than ours.

    And why has Warren Buffet been in litigation FOR YEARS with the IRS about taxes?? You know the one who keeps saying to raise the taxes.

    It's not REVENUE it's spending. Imagine what we cold all do if we agreed on that.


    3 members found this post helpful.

  14. #234
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    I hear the Cayman Islands are in pretty good financial shape....



  15. #235
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    Jul. 12, 2010
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    This ALL DAY LONG!!!

    Why do people thinks anyone making over $250,000 is a hedge fund manager really making 6 million??

    People think you either make $249,000 or you are "rich" You know "fat cat bankers", jet owners", etc. hmm where did that come from??

    Oh that's right. Our leader... oh no, wait the leader of those on his "side". His words, not mine..

    He's done a wonderful job of uniting our country..
    Quote Originally Posted by LMH View Post
    What makes you think all 'wealthy' are sitting around eating bon bons? The successful people I know are successful because each butts ass every single day. Often to the exclusion of any pleasure in life.

    And I assure you most pay far more taxes. FAR more.

    The overal percentage of income may be less because of loopholes (which I disagree with) but the total $$ amount is more.

    A very tiny percentage of our country pays the largest dollar amount of taxes.

    You want fair? A flat tax for all.

    Fair. I work more and earn more then I pay more dollars.

    Simple. Clean. Efficient.

    You and others with your narrow view do not want FAIR-you feel entitled to what I have earned.

    47% of our country shares your views and that is why we will continue to be a country in decline.

    If you don't like you financial situation get off you butt, get a better education, work harder, try more, and do better.

    My parents came from NOTHING and my dad worked 2 jobs 7 days a week in his early career. He earned every single dollar working hard...no silver spoon, no high end education.

    He worked. And worked more. And saved. And never lived beyond his means. He sacrificed and saved.

    He was honest, operated with integrity and oh...he worked well into his 70's.

    SO no I do not think you or anyone else is 'entitled' to what he earned in the name of fairness.

    AND as commanded by the God he worshipped and glorified his entire life he tithed (that means gave 10%) of his time, talents and money to those less privileged.


    He is just ONE example of literally hundreds of men and women and families that I PERSONALLY know.

    What percentage of your income and time do you share with those less privileged?

    Your notion that anyone that is successful is some greedy lazy corporation is just plain ignorant.


    1 members found this post helpful.

  16. #236
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    Apr. 25, 2011
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    We could declare bankruptcy. Worked great for "the Donald" (several times).



  17. #237
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    Jul. 12, 2010
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    Facts? From the New York Times?

    No I think they call that an oxymoron.

    That's not on you BTDT, just I really don't beleive anything that comes from a scandal ridden rag like the NYT.


    1 members found this post helpful.

  18. #238
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    Apr. 25, 2011
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    Yeah, we should only get our "facts" from FOX, 'cuz they're "fair and balanced"....


    1 members found this post helpful.

  19. #239
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    Jan. 26, 2010
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    LMH--Stop being rude. I've been nothing but courteous to you.

    EH--SO agree on the farm subsidies.

    redalter--Not sure what you are referring to. Do you think that Bush counted the wars in the deficit and it was all Obama's fault it jumped so greatly as soon as he put them on the books?
    And, Yes, because of the distorted tax rates, Obama paid about 20% in federal tax, down from the 23% the year before, which is much more than Romney's 15% tax rate. Boy. Not fair. Is it OK to fix it if Obama is getting the advantage now?

    I'm not sure why the math thing is so complicated for everyone. Romney pays MORE in actual dollars for taxes because he's making $20 million doing nothing. He pays WAY LESS in percentage. So, round numbers, if I make $100,000 a year, I pay, say $40,000 total in taxes. Romney would only pay $15,000. Yeah. Not fair.

    AND, the poorer you are, the more percentage of your income you pay in sales tax, gas tax, etc. It punishes those who make less than those who make more. THIS would be why these unfair biased laws have allowed the upper class to gain 300% income increase in the last 20 years, and the other 99% only gained 7%. Seriously, you don't see something wrong.

    Here. Maybe this will help: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bBx2Y5HhplI

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/...mtzG_blog.html

    Some people work really hard for their $600 million dollar salary, but they sure don't work 100,000 times harder than the guy making 60k.

    A flat tax, from what I know, I am no expert, again, unfairly punishes the poorer, though it's something to consider, as is getting rid of loopholes.

    So, since I assume YOU are not a lazy ass moocher and You work hard and don't take any handouts, you are making tons of money, because you worked hard and deserve it? Right? Everyone who works hard and does right makes it, right? You are in the 99% and being unfairly punished because you worked so much harder than everyone else? And, if you get cancer and your healthcare company drops you and you lose your house, it's all your fault, right?

    No? Then why are your defending it?

    And, so, back to the point. How do we decrease spending and increase income? I'm all for BOTH, which is what makes sense. What I DO NOT get is people who are clearly not 99% 100% focused on not letting taxes go back to Bush or Clinton era and that is the ONLY focus they have because they need to defend the poor, helpless 1%.

    Lots of people in here have put in may good ideas. So, all of you make the government SMALLER people, WHY aren't you on the bandwagon for making THE most offensive thing smaller--military (security, whatever)?


    1 members found this post helpful.

  20. #240
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    Jul. 12, 2010
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    Wow. did I say that? I must have missed the part where I typed that.
    Once again, I am simply trying to find common ground.

    Yikes.
    Quote Originally Posted by happymom View Post
    Yeah, we should only get our "facts" from FOX, 'cuz they're "fair and balanced"....



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