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  1. #241
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    BTDT-Because raising taxes is easy. Cutting anything is hard.

    The fear is that the taxes will increase, and so will the spending. If meaningful cuts are made FIRST, I think a lot more people would agree on the tax increases.

    But already I just saw the wrap up of the President's news conference. It appears that they are proposing some tax increases and then kicking the can down the road again on cuts. The way I see it, THAT'S the problem.
    "Against stupidity the gods themselves contend in vain" ~Friedrich Schiller


    3 members found this post helpful.

  2. #242
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    EH--Yep. It's hard, and there are a lot of sneaky people out there trying to get away with things. Hopefully everyone is now so educated and vigilant, we can actually get something done!

    The kicking can is a huge issue. The dairy subsidy was kicked instead of dealing with the real problem. I wish the automatic cuts had gone into effect. Would they have really been that devastating, or could we have dealt with it? I bet we could have dealt.

    How do we make them do both? The R's seems hellbent on no tax increases (or letting the rates go back to what they were) and are all in the pocket of Groiver Norquist, which is appalling. BOTH sides seem to refuse to CUT, and the majority of the American public wants to cut, and the military is a BIG one.



  3. #243
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    Yes, I was hoping that we would go over the cliff for that reason. It would be messy and painful, but it would be better than the collapse that will occur if something isn't done.
    "Against stupidity the gods themselves contend in vain" ~Friedrich Schiller



  4. #244
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    Jul. 12, 2010
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    Okay, since you need tio know.


    Came from a wealthy family that originally arrived here in NY (through Ellis Island) great grandparents - with NOTHING. NOTHING but some clothes.

    Great grandfather worked as an elevator operator. Shortly after arrival, great grand mother dies of Spanish flu.

    Still with me? Over the years and generations, family worked their butts off, LONG hours, sacrifices, etc. etc. to the point where our family was well off.

    There was no welfare so in the beginning family had lived in tenements in
    NYC.

    Fast forward to my parents. A series of unforseen tragedies hit my family. Death, business stolen trhough employee fraud, etc. etc. We lost everything that had been built up over 3 generations.

    To our parents heartbreak (they were of a different generation), we wnet on assitance for a year. We all struggled mightily to get off assistance. Got off assistance as soon as possible and long before we had to.

    Have spent decades building it back up - not even remotely close to what it was, and never will be.

    I give to charity as much as I can. I have all my life as did my parents, grandparents, great grandparents.

    You know what, NO I DON'T WANT TO BE FORCED TO GIVE IT TO OBAMA TO WASTE.
    And yes, I saw LOTS of people that were three, four five generation welfare recepients.
    And until I saw that I thought that you NEVER had a choice you were either poor or you weren't.
    Yes, people fall on hard times, and there should be a safety net, but not this culture of dependency that exists now.

    Why do people think it's either this or everyone is a robber baron??

    Sorry there is NO excuse for three, four five generations on welfare.

    ANd BTDT - I don't find the military at all offensive. They give their lives so that we may have freedom.
    And for the record, I don't make tons of Money, either.

    I've been both, and hope never to be so again. So I live below my means.



    Quote Originally Posted by Beentheredonethat View Post
    LMH--Stop being rude. I've been nothing but courteous to you.

    EH--SO agree on the farm subsidies.

    redalter--Not sure what you are referring to. Do you think that Bush counted the wars in the deficit and it was all Obama's fault it jumped so greatly as soon as he put them on the books?
    And, Yes, because of the distorted tax rates, Obama paid about 20% in federal tax, down from the 23% the year before, which is much more than Romney's 15% tax rate. Boy. Not fair. Is it OK to fix it if Obama is getting the advantage now?

    I'm not sure why the math thing is so complicated for everyone. Romney pays MORE in actual dollars for taxes because he's making $20 million doing nothing. He pays WAY LESS in percentage. So, round numbers, if I make $100,000 a year, I pay, say $40,000 total in taxes. Romney would only pay $15,000. Yeah. Not fair.

    AND, the poorer you are, the more percentage of your income you pay in sales tax, gas tax, etc. It punishes those who make less than those who make more. THIS would be why these unfair biased laws have allowed the upper class to gain 300% income increase in the last 20 years, and the other 99% only gained 7%. Seriously, you don't see something wrong.

    Here. Maybe this will help: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bBx2Y5HhplI

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/...mtzG_blog.html

    Some people work really hard for their $600 million dollar salary, but they sure don't work 100,000 times harder than the guy making 60k.

    A flat tax, from what I know, I am no expert, again, unfairly punishes the poorer, though it's something to consider, as is getting rid of loopholes.

    So, since I assume YOU are not a lazy ass moocher and You work hard and don't take any handouts, you are making tons of money, because you worked hard and deserve it? Right? Everyone who works hard and does right makes it, right? You are in the 99% and being unfairly punished because you worked so much harder than everyone else? And, if you get cancer and your healthcare company drops you and you lose your house, it's all your fault, right?

    No? Then why are your defending it?

    And, so, back to the point. How do we decrease spending and increase income? I'm all for BOTH, which is what makes sense. What I DO NOT get is people who are clearly not 99% 100% focused on not letting taxes go back to Bush or Clinton era and that is the ONLY focus they have because they need to defend the poor, helpless 1%.

    Lots of people in here have put in may good ideas. So, all of you make the government SMALLER people, WHY aren't you on the bandwagon for making THE most offensive thing smaller--military (security, whatever)?


    2 members found this post helpful.

  5. #245
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    redalter--But, I don't see how this is addressing the issue. You come off sounding like it's all about Obama and he's wasting all of this money all of the sudden, and you're good with having the biggest military in the world???

    Is that right?

    I never said military personnel were offensive. Some of those "freeloaders" are ex-military who can't get the "free healthcare" to pay for their traumatized bodies and minds. Do you know how many homeless ex-military there are? You think we should cut off those lazy freeloaders because they can't just get a job? No food stamps? No shelter? No healthcare?

    I said our military is WAY too big and have elaborated on this many, many times. THIS is one BIG area to cut. We do NOT need to be in wars, we do NOT need a billion dollar embassy in Iraq, we do NOT need to pay countries to like us or take care of them, we do NOT need to send people to die on other countries. We do NOT need the BIGGEST, most EXPENSIVE military in the world. We can cut WAY back with the technology we have these days and more than protect ourselves, and all of the rest of those resources and people can be concentrated in OUR country, fixing it and helping OUR people with OUR money.

    That's ONE idea.

    What ideas do you have to increase income and reduce spending?



  6. #246
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    Jul. 12, 2010
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    BTDT-

    Wow.

    did you happen to read mypost #43? Jeez. Uhmm I gave a list.

    I completely agree about the wars. So sorry I did not split hairs, you stated the military was offensive. Maybe you meant to say wars.

    and yes, Obama has spent more than Cheney and Bush, etc. you can call it what you like.

    How many retired people holding Chyrsler bonds did you have to talk to when Obama gave their money to the UAW?

    How many boxes did you stuff for the troops, and shopping trips that you bought things for the troops have you made? So please don't assume things about me.

    I have tried very hard to focus on things that both liberals and conservatives agree on, but people just want to attack. Are there idiots and fools from all viewpoints? Yes.
    I refuse to use the terms "sides", or "enemies" as OUR president does. We are all Americans.

    No I dont want to waste money on countries that have never been able to get along.
    But I want to make sure those countries experience significant pain in retaliation for some of my friends dying when they flew plans into their workplace. Yes, indeedy.

    And I NEVER again want to read of our Ambassador being raped and murdered and no one seems to answer for it, nope not Obama's fault (even thoug he is in charge).
    Tell me, is ANYTHING bad Obama's fault??? He seeks only to blame and divide, never to unite and lead.


    5 members found this post helpful.

  7. #247
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    Feb. 28, 2001
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beentheredonethat View Post
    LMH--Stop being rude. I've been nothing but courteous to you.
    Actually you slipped in that area a few posts back.

    And I am not being rude-just highly protective of things that have been earned.

    And where do you get off saying people with investments are 'doing nothing.'

    I have investments and I bust my ass 365 days a year.

    It is presumptuous and ridiculous to make such a childish assumption.

    You have no right to judge how anyone earns their money so long as they are earning it within the law.

    Why do you feel you are entitled to a piece of pie that someone else has earned?

    That earning can be from wise investing.

    It sounds to me like you just have a jealousy issue.


    5 members found this post helpful.

  8. #248
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    LMH--Sorry if you felt that. I never did anything towards you. Instead of discussing on my values of fairness, I tried to go over into your camp and go the religious side. That's trying to have perspective and take your side into consideration.

    I did NOT say people who have investments are doing nothing. I said Mitt Romney is doing nothing--he inherited wealth, destroyed companies and lives, and personally pocketed $15 million from the auto bailout and is living off the interest DOING NOTHING.

    It is presumptuous and childish to not have read that wrong and say I'm telling people what they can do with their money. The "LAW" has been BOUGHT by the rich so now they "legally" can pay less tax that you and I who WORK. That is immoral and UNFAIR.

    Why do you feel you deserve a bigger piece of the pie than everyone else? Sounds very unChristian to me. Are you jealous?

    Does that sound rude? That's me mirroring your own words back. Pretty offensive, isn't it?

    ONE MORE TIME. Investing is good. We should all do that. I do. You do. It's RIDICULOUS that the money I make off of those investments is taxed at 15% (read, it's only the money you make, it's NOT taxed twice) and the money I WORK for is taxed at about twice that. It's IMMORAL that this system was set up to help the elderly live off of their retirement investments and it's been used by the manipulative rich to increase their earnings 300% while the 99% have inly increased 7%.

    realter--Sorry if I got that wrong. I did not say war was offensive, though I think it is.

    Wrong about Obama spending. Look at the multitudes of charts and references I've given. Speaking of Cheney--his ass should be in jail and his ill gotten gains from starting a fake war seized to pay the debt.


    I have no clue why you're talking about packing boxes for troops. You mentioned frivilous spending, and I brought up where some of that "frivilous spending" goes. The poor people sent to these useless wars.

    Needing to "retaliate" for 911 got us into 10 years of a fake war with Iraq, that had NOTHING to do with 9/11. That should make you furious. I have NO idea what you are talking about with raping and murdering ambassadors.

    I don't know where the "is anything Obama's fault" thing comes from. You just have to watch him speak where he says it's all his responsibility. What more do you want? I'm just SO sick of the right wing taking NO responsibility for the insane spending, which they do the most of, by far, and out of the other side of their mouths refusing to touch the military. And I'm pretty pissed Obama won;t do this, either.



  9. #249
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    BTDT this is where you continually fail to get it.

    I don't think I deserve a 'bigger piece'-I think I deserve what I earn through work and good financial planning. I don't feel the results of my hard work should be redirected by government-not its job.

    I do take care of those less privileged-I prefer to do so via organizations that I can 'vet' as opposed to our irresponsible government.

    Giving them MORE money will not make them more responsible with it.

    I am not jealous of anyone-but my standards are very different from yours. I don't base success the same way that you do.

    As far as your rambling about the evils of the tax law-well it is the law.

    Kind of like Obamacare. You can bitch all you want but it is the law.

    Sucks on the other foot, huh.

    Not to mention you really don't get it at all.

    Are you a teacher? Is that right? What exactly do you teach?


    2 members found this post helpful.

  10. #250
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    Btdt, soumds as though you'd be much happier moving to a more socialist country.

    I'm a little sick of your repeated attacks amd infantile attacks about people you know absolutely nothing about. Your stupid remarks about "fake wars". I assure you they're very real. Just ask the men and women who served there and the families of those who died.

    Your childish repetitions of "faux news". You tend to be quite holier than thou and very condescending. You have a rather naieve view of the real world

    And most of all, I'm really really sick of your diatribes against the military.

    I try very hard to keep my posts as factual and objective as possible. Half of my family is conservative and half liberal, and I can assure you the liberal halfs would find your posts insulting.


    3 members found this post helpful.

  11. #251
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beentheredonethat View Post
    You just have to watch him speak where he says it's all his responsibility.
    Where?

    Never seen it.



  12. #252
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    And both my daughters are teachers. They would cringe at your showing such ignorance.


    1 members found this post helpful.

  13. #253
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    BTDT did you ever think the reason are taxed at less is because that is exactly what many 'elderly' are living off? Or at least hope and plan to live off...

    They are NOT working. They are retired. The hard workers invested and then retire expecting to live off the returns of those investments.

    It is actually quite kind (not abusive) to tax those returns at a lower rate.

    If you raise the rates on investment income you are really putting the nail in the coffin of the retirees.


    1 members found this post helpful.

  14. #254
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    If BTDT is really a teacher, one can only imagine what kinds of things are said to the students... OY.


    2 members found this post helpful.

  15. #255
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    Here is a whole page of Obama apologizing videos.
    http://www.google.com/search?q=obama...w=1208&bih=587

    Minnie--You have no crossed the line and been reported. Just because you have no clue and cannot support anything you say does not give you any right to make attacks against me. DONE.

    LMH--Did you just READ what I said? I SAID the capital gains, at 20% was instituted for the elderly living off savings. It's now down to 15%. It's being ABUSED by the super rich.

    Here--I'll quote myself
    " It's IMMORAL that this system was set up to help the elderly live off of their retirement investments and it's been used by the manipulative rich to increase their earnings 300% while the 99% have inly increased 7%."

    ONE MORE TIME--I never said give "more money" to poor people. I said let's not target the poorest, weakest people in our society by CUTTING there. START with the biggest welfare queens--the Mitt Romneys, Exxons, big pharma, etc. etc.

    Why don't you explain exactly what you do for a living and why you support going after the lowest class first and support the richest.? What, EXACTLY, do you do to help people? I choose to help people, too. One of the things I do is collect and distribute things like clothes, shoes, writing materials and binders to the "irresponsible" children and families who live 7 people to an hotel room because they lost their home because they got manipulated by a loan company that made fake loans and a lot of money and crashed the housing industry. I also get them to kids who have a pathetic, drug addicted mother and a father gone or in jail so they have something to look forward to other than that example.



  16. #256
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    Quote Originally Posted by Noms View Post
    If BTDT is really a teacher, one can only imagine what kinds of things are said to the students... OY.
    Reported, again.

    Says the queen of, I refuse to read and give any actual facts. GO AWAY.



  17. #257
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beentheredonethat View Post
    Here is a whole page of Obama apologizing videos.
    http://www.google.com/search?q=obama...w=1208&bih=587

    Minnie--You have no crossed the line and been reported. Just because you have no clue and cannot support anything you say does not give you any right to make attacks against me. DONE.

    LMH--Did you just READ what I said? I SAID the capital gains, at 20% was instituted for the elderly living off savings. It's now down to 15%. It's being ABUSED by the super rich.

    Here--I'll quote myself
    " It's IMMORAL that this system was set up to help the elderly live off of their retirement investments and it's been used by the manipulative rich to increase their earnings 300% while the 99% have inly increased 7%."

    ONE MORE TIME--I never said give "more money" to poor people. I said let's not target the poorest, weakest people in our society by CUTTING there. START with the biggest welfare queens--the Mitt Romneys, Exxons, big pharma, etc. etc.

    Why don't you explain exactly what you do for a living and why you support going after the lowest class first and support the richest.? What, EXACTLY, do you do to help people? I choose to help people, too. One of the things I do is collect and distribute things like clothes, shoes, writing materials and binders to the "irresponsible" children and families who live 7 people to an hotel room because they lost their home because they got manipulated by a loan company that made fake loans and a lot of money and crashed the housing industry. I also get them to kids who have a pathetic, drug addicted mother and a father gone or in jail so they have something to look forward to other than that example.
    One consistent theme in your posts,,,, always the victim, the victim of everyone else. Geesh


    4 members found this post helpful.

  18. #258
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    Jul. 12, 2010
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    Default Why I was just responding to you

    You see when you asked me if I knew about military homeless, etc, I responded by asking you the same since I actually get out there and buy things for our troops, I wanted to let you. Know.

    And thanks so much for sliding right over the fact that i I have every right to be damn angry at those people who flew planes into our buildings KILLInG people I knew!!

    So awAre of others aren't you?

    Quote Originally Posted by Beentheredonethat View Post
    redalter--But, I don't see how this is addressing the issue. You come off sounding like it's all about Obama and he's wasting all of this money all of the sudden, and you're good with having the biggest military in the world???

    Is that right?

    I never said military personnel were offensive. Some of those "freeloaders" are ex-military who can't get the "free healthcare" to pay for their traumatized bodies and minds. Do you know how many homeless ex-military there are? You think we should cut off those lazy freeloaders because they can't just get a job? No food stamps? No shelter? No healthcare?

    I said our military is WAY too big and have elaborated on this many, many times. THIS is one BIG area to cut. We do NOT need to be in wars, we do NOT need a billion dollar embassy in Iraq, we do NOT need to pay countries to like us or take care of them, we do NOT need to send people to die on other countries. We do NOT need the BIGGEST, most EXPENSIVE military in the world. We can cut WAY back with the technology we have these days and more than protect ourselves, and all of the rest of those resources and people can be concentrated in OUR country, fixing it and helping OUR people with OUR money.

    That's ONE idea.

    What ideas do you have to increase income and reduce spending?



  19. #259
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    Jul. 12, 2010
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    Default And wow!

    Why is it only rich conservatives are evil!!!
    Soros, oh he's a great guy!it sounds like you just keep reading from a racheal maddow script.

    Quote Originally Posted by Beentheredonethat View Post
    Here is a whole page of Obama apologizing videos.
    http://www.google.com/search?q=obama...w=1208&bih=587

    Minnie--You have no crossed the line and been reported. Just because you have no clue and cannot support anything you say does not give you any right to make attacks against me. DONE.

    LMH--Did you just READ what I said? I SAID the capital gains, at 20% was instituted for the elderly living off savings. It's now down to 15%. It's being ABUSED by the super rich.

    Here--I'll quote myself
    " It's IMMORAL that this system was set up to help the elderly live off of their retirement investments and it's been used by the manipulative rich to increase their earnings 300% while the 99% have inly increased 7%."

    ONE MORE TIME--I never said give "more money" to poor people. I said let's not target the poorest, weakest people in our society by CUTTING there. START with the biggest welfare queens--the Mitt Romneys, Exxons, big pharma, etc. etc.

    Why don't you explain exactly what you do for a living and why you support going after the lowest class first and support the richest.? What, EXACTLY, do you do to help people? I choose to help people, too. One of the things I do is collect and distribute things like clothes, shoes, writing materials and binders to the "irresponsible" children and families who live 7 people to an hotel room because they lost their home because they got manipulated by a loan company that made fake loans and a lot of money and crashed the housing industry. I also get them to kids who have a pathetic, drug addicted mother and a father gone or in jail so they have something to look forward to other than that example.


    3 members found this post helpful.

  20. #260
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    I didn't slide over the fact. I can imagine everyone is angry. How did spending 10 years in Iraq have ANYTHING to do with that? Iraq had NOTHING to do with 9/11.

    So, again, since you were SO angry about people who died and us sending troops over to a war that had nothing to do with that, and respecting the poor men and women who died in that war, why wouldn't you want a support system for them? I was connecting all of the "victims" with where all of these social support systems go. How many homeless vets are there? How many need food stamps? How many need medical care? Too many.

    I did NOT say you didn't care. I said THIS is what some people are SO angry about supporting and want these people to just buck up and take care of themselves.

    Here, I'll quote myself again:
    "I never said military personnel were offensive. Some of those "freeloaders" are ex-military who can't get the "free healthcare" to pay for their traumatized bodies and minds. Do you know how many homeless ex-military there are? You think we should cut off those lazy freeloaders because they can't just get a job? No food stamps? No shelter? No healthcare? " post 247

    So, do you understand? Do you see? Do you want to go along with those who do namecalling, or address the issue?

    We pretty much agree the military personel deserve support, which comes from government funding and our tax dollars. Do you want to cut that, or would you rather cut the billion dollar embassy in Iraq, or stop paying for the protection of other countries? I think a LOT of people want to cut funding for the support of these people. I think it's immoral.



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