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  1. #81
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    I am all right wing and I'm all for sterilization, some people should just not reproduce...


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  2. #82
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    Feb. 28, 2001
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    Quote Originally Posted by AirForceWife View Post
    While I'm certain that there's a lot of frivolous spending, people directly relate it to military spending when in reality, we're not "at war" there, we're nation building at this point, building foreign relations. A ton of the projects right now are schools, government buildings, things that we don't need to do but we are. I wish all of this nation building crap could have it's own pot of money so that people can't blame it on us. It's not us! Hell, I wish my office could get funding for general supplies that we need, instead we beg, borrow and steal while Iraq and Afghanistan get tons of money spent on them. News Flash Big Brother, they blew our asses up!
    I think I have a cyber crush on you.


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  3. #83
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    Nov. 14, 2011
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    Quote Originally Posted by sketcher View Post
    No, that is not what you said earlier where you justified not paying your taxes. And now you are saying you would be happy to do X if Y were true but you obviously feel very strongly that Y is not true. Or at least not true enough for you to pay your taxes. So, I'm really not seeing your defense here.

    What "defense" do I need? Throwing hard earned money away to a bunch of lazy slugs to throw into the sh*tter is insane. End of story.

    Except to whine that the roads are not in good enough condition.

    NONE of the public amenities are in good enough condition. Yet I don't see anyone in Congress doing without. Like 2ndgal said, they don't need a chef, learn to cook. Our American school system is absolutely disgraceful. If the government considers itself fit to invest with OUR money, it should invest in OUR future.

    [I]And I'm sure, should the day come when and if you do not work under the table, you won't be declining your healthcare and social security.[I]
    One way or another, if I live that long you can bet I'll have SAVED up for my retirement. I'm sure as hell not counting on the government to take care of me.
    Trust me, I pay my taxes, I never said that I didn't, but I'll take any sort of tax shelter I can get. They receive more than enough already.

    "Pat the horse; kick yourself" - Carl Hester


    1 members found this post helpful.

  4. #84
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    Nov. 2, 2006
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    Maine
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    Quote Originally Posted by SLW View Post
    The next example at this holiday get together is the 20 year old mother of a 3 year old boy who married the boys father this year. Neither able bodied parent works and they live off govt assistance. They were so excited to announce that they are expecting a second baby in July. Perfect, when you can't afford one child, have another.
    This is the kind of thing that makes me want to scream. DH and I were forced to delay attempts at starting a family when the economy tanked and he was laid off. We knew we couldn't afford for me to be on maternity leave, let alone raise a child. At the same time, my cousin's kid dropped out of highschool to have child number one to be raised on the state's dime, split with kid's father before baby arrived and now paternal grandparents have custody. She then had a second child two years later which is also being raised on the state's dime. She has not held a solid job. She finally got her GED. Oh, and she refused to take the pill because of "weight gain", what did she think pregnancy would be like?

    I prefer the idea of a national sales tax. As someone else said, exempt food, clothing (though maybe a limit on that--perhaps anything over 1k individual item) and medicine.


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  5. #85
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    Jan. 26, 2010
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    Quote Originally Posted by LMH View Post
    Most of my crazy right friends thought up that idea. Mention sterilization to lefties and watch them go mad.
    Most of my very intelligent, well-educated, working, tax paying super lefty friends are all for this idea. Save the world means having less people and not destroying our resources.

    It's the righties who INSIST on people growing fetuses into babies, not paying for birth control, and then refusing to pay for anything once it's a child, 'cause it's all the slut's fault. Remember all of those R politicians spouting this (the divorced ones cheating on wives and having out of wedlock children with their "sluts?")


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  6. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beentheredonethat View Post
    Most of my very intelligent, well-educated, working, tax paying super lefty friends are all for this idea. Save the world means having less people and not destroying our resources.

    It's the righties who INSIST on people growing fetuses into babies, not paying for birth control, and then refusing to pay for anything once it's a child, 'cause it's all the slut's fault. Remember all of those R politicians spouting this (the divorced ones cheating on wives and having out of wedlock children with their "sluts?")
    Do you think we should start petitioning Washington for this? Pay for mandatory sterilization and passing a test to get unsterilized. It would cost a bit to do so, but save SO much more in the short and long run. Would this be too big government?



  7. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beentheredonethat View Post
    Most of my very intelligent, well-educated, working, tax paying super lefty friends are all for this idea. Save the world means having less people and not destroying our resources.

    It's the righties who INSIST on people growing fetuses into babies, not paying for birth control, and then refusing to pay for anything once it's a child, 'cause it's all the slut's fault. Remember all of those R politicians spouting this (the divorced ones cheating on wives and having out of wedlock children with their "sluts?")
    Ok, I sort of see the spending issue in this however, I think it's straying a little. To set my record straight, I support sterilization, I do not support abortion. But this thread isn't about that



  8. #88
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    Ah. So, you do not support abortion. Are you then, willing, since you insist people have those children they don't want and can't support, to pay for their expenses their whole life? Whether it's housing, education, and medical care, or social services, medical care, and jail, those fetuses you insist on being born cost a lot. Who's to pay?

    This thread isn't about this issue, but this issue is a HUGE government spending cost one way or another. Look at all of the stories posted of people SO angry at "government dollars" paying for good for nothing people with kids. It ends up being a lot. What's the source of all that? Kids being born. How do we deal with the source? Saying, "don't have sex" isn't really working, and pretty much hasn't through all of time.



  9. #89
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    Well neither is abortion because the idiots go right back out their and do the same crap and who pays for those abortions? Oh wait, that's the government too. One abortion=sterilization unless it was for the mother's safety.



  10. #90
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    I don't think there are that many repeat offenders who have abortions. I'd imagine it can be pretty hard. And I don't know who pays, but, again, I'm sure it's a LOT cheaper than even just the hospital bills to give birth when someone can't pay.

    Economically speaking, are you so offended by abortion that you are willing to pay all of the costs of the child born? Are you so offended by big government that you will not allow them to dictate what a woman does, and then let that child starve? Or, are you so offended by government waste and spending, that you're willing to use government funding to pay for sterilization, birth control, or abortion so that we don't have to pay for a life of a person?

    I'm serious and not being sarcastic here 'cuz I know we're good. I'm one of those people that likes to understand where that line is. Controlling behavior of people has never really worked, so, with what we CAN do, what DO we do? It's a cold view of it all, but it is a huge factor in the topic of spending and cutting back.



  11. #91
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    I really don't have the answer to all that, I just know that morally I don't support abortion. I do understand why people do it, in fact my best friend openly admits that she would have an abortion because she has zero desire to be a mom. The government will never win with this, paying/not paying, allowing or making it illegal again, America is just too diverse for that now. I'm not offended by it but I think I would rather support a life than to end one. By that, I mean innocent children, I think there are a ton of people serving life sentences that could die instead.


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  12. #92
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    It IS a really hard thing to deal with, but it's something we need to deal with. It's like saying you don't support killing and hurting people, but you support a strong, proactive military that gets the bad guys. There are no easy answers for really tough problems.

    Just remember, if you support the life of children and insist people have them, you have to realize that's a lifetime of education, healthcare, services and what, and that's our tax dollars at work. I used to be more of the screw them, let THEM face the consequences of their actions kind of person. The more I teach, the more I see kids in BAD situations, and I just know we HAVE to do what we can to turn around their lives, because it's the only thing we can do to save them, and it's cheaper than what it will cost if we don't. It's like preventative healthcare.


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  13. #93
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    Aug. 4, 2011
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    UUHHHMM, havent waded through all the posts, but this thread is entirely silly.

    You voted OBAMA into office for 4 more years. He's about as opposite of reduced spending and higher incomes as you could possible dream of. So why the hell are you asking for opinions on the topic??????


    6 members found this post helpful.

  14. #94
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    Noms--Go start your own thread. The R's have historically been and still are the biggest spenders, so what you say makes no sense. Everyone is playing nice, so your opinion is not needed.


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  15. #95
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    Oct. 12, 2005
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beentheredonethat View Post
    Noms--Go start your own thread. The R's have historically been and still are the biggest spenders, so what you say makes no sense. Everyone is playing nice, so your opinion is not needed.
    Thar's quite rude. The fact is you did vote for Obama amd he HAS run up one trillion Plus deficits since elected and is totally digging in his heels against reducomg spemding and still insists on his tax hike for the rich, which does NOTHING to fix the problem and pays for less than one week. So, it was a valid question.


    3 members found this post helpful.

  16. #96
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    No, Noms was rude and too lazy to read through a thread of many good ideas, and called it "silly." And your lack of understanding that Obama finally counted an unpaid for war, counted the unfunded medicare mandate, dealt with a collapsed economy inherited from Bush AND is dealing with a bunch of morons that INSIST we REDUCE income when the debt has run up, and still refuse to look at his reductions (referenced earlier in this thread) is ridiculous.

    Cutting SS and medicare and keeping the LOWEST tax rate in 80 years for the rich who have had a 300% increase in income while the average person has seen a 7% increase is ALL R and YOU support that. YOU must take responsibility. Where will YOU get income and reduce debt?

    Contribute, solve problems, or go away somewhere else and complain it's someone else's fault.


    2 members found this post helpful.

  17. #97
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    Aug. 25, 2007
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beentheredonethat View Post
    We get NO money out of the military. EVERYTHING costs and TOO much goes to waste. And don't tell me that's not happening when we go to some fake war and Dick Cheney's company gets all the big contracts to work there, Haliburton, and we spend billions on them, and then he gets out of office and gets a multimillion dollar "bonus" from the. THIS is where we need to start.

    You might want to ask the folks around Clarksville, TN or Augusta, GA or Minot, ND about this statement. It shows a pretty severe lack of information.

    We do NOT need to have the biggest military in the world to protect us and protect the rest of the world, and we certainly do no need to do in the archaic way of sending men on foot or maintaining multimillion dollar bases around the world, let alone paying people to be our friends. Technology is advanced enough that we can do what we need on a much smaller scale. The reason the military is so big is because the politicians have been paid off by those who make a fortune off of it. Let's employ all those military personnel in this country doing something useful here.

    They are doing something useful THERE.

    As for the list I posted from somewhere of ideas of how to save, who said it was all about taxing our way out of this? A lot of those ideas are to STOP subsidizing the super rich ( and, no, SS is NOT a subsidy--we pay for it.) We need to CUT, as in the military and subsidizing oil companies, AND have income. I said that on the first post. Any adult in this world knows you can't pay off debt by just making more money--you have to cut spending AND increase income.

    WHY in the world do people keep saying this? Has ANYONE said the answer is to "tax our way out?"
    The ANYONE who wants to tax our way out of this is Barak Hussein Obama.

    Most of the suggestions, so far, are nothing more than rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic.

    The hard truth is that the Federal government now accounts for 24% of total GDP. That means that if you want the government on a "pay as you go" basis they must tax every dollar of wealth exchanged in the GDP formula at 24%.

    Or run an annual deficit. Right now our National Debt is about to hit $16.5 Trillion. That's roughly 120% of GDP. We are starting to look like Greece. Indeed those feeding at the public trough are beginning to act like Greeks (and I don't mean that in a good way).

    To put this in perspective when the Feds. started this endless round of deficit spending in the '30s the National Debt was about 9% of GDP (much of that from WWI which was being steadily paid off). Under the leadership of Clinton/Gingrich the Federal Budget was in balance (and even in surplus) for a very short time. But then we made a dreadful public financial mistake with the Bush Era tax cuts. Instead of cutting taxes we should have reduced debt. But Bush was a social conservative and fiscal liberal. The only worse combination I can think of is a social liberal who is a fiscal liberal (like the current CinC).

    By the numbers military spending is a minor player. The big ones are our herd of Sacred Cows called "Entitlements." Unless we cull a few sacred cows we're going to have bad times ahead.

    G.
    Mangalarga Marchador: Uma Raça, Uma Paixão


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  18. #98
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    Jul. 14, 2000
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    midwest
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marshfield View Post
    This is the kind of thing that makes me want to scream. DH and I were forced to delay attempts at starting a family when the economy tanked and he was laid off. We knew we couldn't afford for me to be on maternity leave, let alone raise a child. At the same time, my cousin's kid dropped out of highschool to have child number one to be raised on the state's dime, split with kid's father before baby arrived and now paternal grandparents have custody. She then had a second child two years later which is also being raised on the state's dime. She has not held a solid job. She finally got her GED. Oh, and she refused to take the pill because of "weight gain", what did she think pregnancy would be like?

    I prefer the idea of a national sales tax. As someone else said, exempt food, clothing (though maybe a limit on that--perhaps anything over 1k individual item) and medicine.
    It is frustrating isn't it?? Free will and free choice are fine but that does not mean all things are equal when you make dumb decisions, especially when you don't put any skin in the game. My divorced younger sister, has her college degree, she hasn't worked since 10/10 by her own choice and lives of govt assistance now. She blew a financial safety net she had during this time by her own choice and denial. Shrug. Free will, free choice.

    Safety nets yes. If you are going to sit on the side with your hand out waiting for the govt to step in with help, then barrack housing and some mandated daily routines would be helpful. Better yet privatize assistance and we can improve the lives of the troubled and challenged. I've seen the inner workings of DSS (Department of Social Services) and food stamps via my sister and that explains why we have generation(s) of non-motivated citizens. I wouldn't wish it on anyone.


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  19. #99
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    May. 12, 2000
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    Yet another preview of coming attractions our politicians and bureaucrats will chose to ignore: France.

    And count me as a charter member of Miz Hill'ry's "vast right-wing conspiracy" who supports both abortion and sterilization.
    “There are two ways to conquer and enslave a nation. One is by the sword. The other is by debt.”
    John Adams


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  20. #100
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    Nov. 24, 2002
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    Default You don't have to sterilize them or pay for abortions

    Just stop paying them to have more. Pay for education and daycare, let them go get a job, they'll be too tired for mischief. If they have to work a 40 hour week, or more, another mouth to feed that IS NOT PRODUCING A MONTHLY CHECK is not going to be what they want. Just. Stop. Paying them to breed.


    When these girls get cold and hungry, they won't be thinking about making another baby, they'll have to start thinking how do I get a job, how do I keep a job and how do I get a better job. Their loser boyfriends will be gone, cause there won't be a cushy place to crash with cable. Then they'll be cold and hungry.

    Take all the amenities out of prisons, don't let them work out, keep them all scrawny and miserable. They won't riot and fight, they'll be too starving and hungry and they will never want to go back.

    And to the "if you make over 250K you are rich" folks, well, yes it is perspective I suppose, but we aren't drive a mercedes take a vacation at the beach house have a GP horse in the barn rich. We are a have our own farm, bills are paid on time, good health insurance work six days a week rich. I've worked longer and harder for less, but, with hard work and education comes income. I want my lawyer, doctor, accountant, etc, to be very very well compensated for all his hard work. I don't resent people that make millions of dollars a year, good on them.

    What bothers me is the people who do not understand that the majority of people in this country pay little or no tax and that the upper levels already pay more than their fair "share".

    I want all you tax the rich people to look at your paycheck tomorrow. Then take 33% of it and give it to the next person you see standing on the side of the street with a sign saying "please help".

    It is what you are asking "the rich" to do. It doesn't matter that they may have more left over, it doesn't matter that they drive a nicer car or ride a nicer horse than you do. You'd never agree to anything that affected your income that dramatically, and it isn't fair to expect those who have either worked hard or been more fortunate than you have to just roll over and cough it up. In fact, the biggest protest is the ultimate use of the money, not the actual tax rate.

    Our government is wasting more money every minute than most of us will see in a lifetime of hard work. They sent me out two Census forms for each of my businesses to fill out that were pages long and took better than an hour each. For what? All of that information already exists on our business tax returns, but I'm sure it's keeping many government employees busy mailing, entering, analyzing all this junk.

    Call up Ms. Mars and tell her that since she already has 9 GP horses, she needs to just send you 3 of them (with staff) since you don't have one.

    It's not a bit different.


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