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  1. #61
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    Aug. 25, 2007
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beentheredonethat View Post
    Here's what I found from Randi Rhodes to legitimately cut tax loopholes:
    http://www.randirhodes.com/pages/rrn...ticle=10640557

    Ten Ways To Avoid The Fiscal Cliff



    Stop giving investors a sweetheart deal - Tax capital gains as ordinary income
    Additional revenue: $533 billion over 10 years

    Quit subsidizing mansions and vacation homes - Lower or eliminate mortgage interest deduction
    Additional revenue: $214.6 billion over 10 years

    End the "step up" giveaway on inherited stocks
    Additional revenue: $764 billion over 10 years

    Revitalize the Estate Tax
    Additional revenue: $432 billion over 10 years

    Heed America's favorite investment guru - Implement The Buffett Rule
    Additional revenue: $171 billion over 10 years

    Reset back to Clinton-era tax rates for upper incomes
    Additional revenue: $442 billion over 10 years

    Eliminate massive agribusiness subsidies to corporate farmers
    Additional revenue: $112 billion over 10 years

    Eliminate oil & gas subsidies to massive oil companies
    Additional revenue: $158 billion over 10 years

    Forget cap and trade: Impose a carbon tax instead
    Additional revenue: $1.25 trillion over 10 years

    Stop giving corporations an excuse to hide profits and send jobs abroad
    Additional revenue: $583 billion over 10 years
    Total estimated additional revenue:
    $4,659,600,000,000
    (That's more than $4.6 Trillion)


    Read more: http://www.randirhodes.com/pages/rrn...#ixzz2G1T9Dgl0
    Doing the math we find that $4.6 Trillion/10 = $466 Billion/yr. That's less than 1/3 of the average annual Obama Budget Deficit.

    The hard truth is that we can't tax our way out of this problem.

    G.
    Mangalarga Marchador: Uma Raça, Uma Paixão


    6 members found this post helpful.

  2. #62
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    May. 12, 2000
    Location
    NE TN, USA
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    The problem is not taxing enough, it's spending too much. How many countries like Greece, Portugal, Italy, Ireland, Spain, France, etc., etc., etc., does it take to drive that point home? We need people in Washington that have actually run successful businesses, not more academics, career politicians, and lawyers.

    Phase out energy subsidies on mature energy industries: Oil, gas, wind, hydro, solar, nuclear, ethanol, coal. Let 'em carry their own weight, not be poster children for crony capitalism. Only developing technologies should be subsidized.

    Entitlements are unsustainable, and the sooner the general population realizes this, the better off we'll be. Far too many people are getting taxpayer-funded handouts. They've allowed themselves to become slaves to the tax-and-spend politicians.
    Last edited by Frank B; Dec. 26, 2012 at 08:43 PM.
    “There are two ways to conquer and enslave a nation. One is by the sword. The other is by debt.”
    John Adams


    5 members found this post helpful.

  3. #63
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    Aug. 27, 2008
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    388

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    Quote Originally Posted by carolprudm View Post
    There are people like that in all places of employment though I doubt he was raking in $70 K in benefits. I know Mr P certainly wasn't receiving nearly that much. But it is fun to steriotype government employees as lazy leeches.

    The CEO of the company I worked for would brag about the number of times he finished his "work" early (averaged to more than twice a week)and went to play golf. Meanwhile 60 hour work weeks were the norm or our dept and 80 hours a week was certainly not unheard of. He was one of Jack Welch's protegees from GE and presided over a steady shift of compensation away from the regular employees to the paychecks of the upper management..
    I in fact said I know not everyone is like that. I have worked with many very hard working and intelligent folks in the government. I have however had the opportunity to work in multiple areas and I'm sorry but I see a lot of waste. I don't think anyone is a leech at all. I'm sorry if you saw it that way. Of course there are people not pulling their weight everywhere but my tax dollars aren't paying them. I don't think the problem is the individual government worker at all. I think it's a reflection of the entire system. At the end of the day, whether its about particular people or whole agencies, the government needs to be leaner. Also, I know that is a lot of money in benefits but when you factor in the sweet insurance packages, the fact that there is still a pretty incredible pension plan, life insurance, short and long term disability, crazy amounts of vacation time.....it's not that hard to believe. Maybe it's something else we should consider. The average federal government worker costs an additional $42,000 in benefits. That is a staggering number to me. This is actually a really interesting read if you're interested.

    http://www.downsizinggovernment.org/...ederal-workers

    The average cost of benefits for state and local workers is many times higher. Please don't think I think any workers are leeches. I think people as a whole want to work hard and do. The way I look at it though with the example of the guy I worked with is not that he's lazy or a leech but that the position he held was so insignificant that he didn't really have to do much of anything and the department went right on going just fine. I never meant to insinuate that he was a leech I just don't see why we are paying for a job that seems unnecessary.



  4. #64
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    Nov. 14, 2011
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eclectic Horseman View Post
    I work for state government and I cannot avoid paying every single penny that I owe in taxes. What I see are far too many people who don't pay taxes! Not just because of legal tax loopholes or off shore tax havens, and not just because they are receiving public benefits. But millions of every day people who have their own businesses or who work for tips. That includes:

    -wait staff
    -hair stylists
    -electricians
    -plumbers
    -cab drivers
    -farriers
    -horse trainers/riding instructors
    -gardeners


    The list is HUGE! Avoiding taxes, legally or illegally, is the national passtime!

    I think that it is time for a national sales tax. Let the biggest consumers pay the most taxes. Obviously, exempt clothing, food and medicine. If you don't want to pay taxes, don't buy so much stuff! I really don't think it would hurt the economy as much as you might think--since many european countries have such taxes and don't seem to be affected.

    Maybe it is just me, but a national sales tax seems much simpler and fairer to me than an income tax.

    You are damn right. I WORKED for my money, and if I can keep ANY of it from going to the government to go to waste, I will. I am not in debt, nor have I ever been. If I don't have the money, I go without. I don't borrow money either, I save up. What incentive do I have to throw my money to the wind? I can totally understand the concept of everyone pitching in and pulling their own weight, and I would be glad to do my part, but the reality is it is every man/woman for him/herself.

    "Pat the horse; kick yourself" - Carl Hester


    2 members found this post helpful.

  5. #65
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    Jan. 14, 2003
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    Massachusetts
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    Quote Originally Posted by Angelico View Post
    You are damn right. I WORKED for my money, and if I can keep ANY of it from going to the government to go to waste, I will. I am not in debt, nor have I ever been. If I don't have the money, I go without. I don't borrow money either, I save up. What incentive do I have to throw my money to the wind? I can totally understand the concept of everyone pitching in and pulling their own weight, and I would be glad to do my part, but the reality is it is every man/woman for him/herself.
    Yeah, and I'll bet you never went to public school or drove on a publicly funded road. Or benefited in any thousands of ways that someone with your level of selfishness can not even begin to grasp. If you don't like it, then get out there and work to change the system.

    I don't think it will have much to do with improving the fiscal situation in this country but everyone should pay equal taxes. However it gets done - national sales tax, graduated income tax where all income regardless of the source is taxed at the same rate.

    And while there need to be changes made to the entitlement programs for sure, I wish people would not so blithly decide that someone who is 55 should all of a sudden be cut off. Frankly, I would say, for those that actually responsibly plan for their future, that 40 would be more fair in terms of cutting off benefits. Even 40 is pushing it in terms of expecting people to revamp their whole strategy in terms of paying off a house, caring for children and elders, putting kids through college and saving for retirement. But it could be done but 55? Seriously?


    2 members found this post helpful.

  6. #66
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    Jan. 26, 2010
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    I wanted to respond to some of this before I forgot. One of the things everyone always brings up is how medicare and social security "cost" us so much. We PAY for it. This is INCOME for the government to give back to us, so counting it as just a drain when you don't count the income part at the same time is inaccurate.

    We get NO money out of the military. EVERYTHING costs and TOO much goes to waste. And don't tell me that's not happening when we go to some fake war and Dick Cheney's company gets all the big contracts to work there, Haliburton, and we spend billions on them, and then he gets out of office and gets a multimillion dollar "bonus" from the. THIS is where we need to start.

    We do NOT need to have the biggest military in the world to protect us and protect the rest of the world, and we certainly do no need to do in the archaic way of sending men on foot or maintaining multimillion dollar bases around the world, let alone paying people to be our friends. Technology is advanced enough that we can do what we need on a much smaller scale. The reason the military is so big is because the politicians have been paid off by those who make a fortune off of it. Let's employ all those military personnel in this country doing something useful here.

    Quote Originally Posted by Guilherme View Post
    The Federal Budget stands at roughly $3.5 Trillion, with a deficit of about $1.5 Trillion. In 2011 (the last year with complete numbers) DoD spending was about 19% of total Fed. expenditures.

    On top of the DoD budget there is additional "security spending" 17% of total Fed. expenditures (Homeland Security, FBI, part of DoJ, Veterans Affairs, etc.).

    Medicare runs about 23% of Fed. expenditures.

    Social Security runs about 20% of Fed. expenditures.

    Other non-discretionary runs about 16% of Fed. expenditures.

    If you shut down the DoD you would not cut the annual deficit even in half.

    The hard truth is that if you apply the Willie Sutton Principle to the Federal Budget DoD comes in a weak third in expenditure. Now you know where the government has to go if they are going to seriously cut spending.

    How about raising taxes? I've tried to get some numbers that I trust on just how much the Obama plan would raise and I'm not finding any numbers that are viable. The place that really should know, the IRS, does not seem to have put out anything on this. That's a surprise given their data base. If anyone has some good numbers I'd like to review them.

    Remember, too, that while we are not at war with anybody a whole bunch of people are at war with US. Do I need to recount the events of the past 15 years or so?

    You sleep soundly BECAUSE we have the military and naval capability that we do. De-construct those capabilities and you might want to think about buying one of the prepper bunkers that they show on TV; you'll likely need it.

    G.

    And don't forget to pick up a Bushmaster or two along with a 1000 rounds of ammo.
    As for the list I posted from somewhere of ideas of how to save, who said it was all about taxing our way out of this? A lot of those ideas are to STOP subsidizing the super rich ( and, no, SS is NOT a subsidy--we pay for it.) We need to CUT, as in the military and subsidizing oil companies, AND have income. I said that on the first post. Any adult in this world knows you can't pay off debt by just making more money--you have to cut spending AND increase income.

    WHY in the world do people keep saying this? Has ANYONE said the answer is to "tax our way out?"


    1 members found this post helpful.

  7. #67
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    Nov. 24, 2002
    Location
    Northern KY
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    4,457

    Default It's easy to say tax the rich, they don't need it.

    If you aren't rich.

    My DH owns what would be considered a "small business". We employ 9 people on payroll, have two retail locations. I'm not sure how many vendors we have, but we put a lot of money into the local economy, our "accounts" keep at least 3 or 4 people who work for other small businesses employed full time. That's not counting all the accountants, lawyers, bankers, etc.


    In the last year, we've hired 3 new people. So let's just tax the "rich" (oh, we so are not rich, but we fit into the government's definition.) Let's take oh, somewhere around 200K a year out of the kitty in our business.

    Who exactly do you think is going to suffer most? Well, it's true that there won't be a fancy horse in my future,(don't have one now) but there are at least 3 people who will likely be without a job if that happens. Then, we won't buy the remaining employees lunch at the local restaurant at least 2x per week either. Ooops, I guess they can lay off a cook and a waitress. That bank manager in charge of the corporate accounts of all of us growing small business? He's going to be looking for a job too, since none of us are growing our business, buying commercial real estate or investing any "spare" income. Since his wife works at the private school that the small business owner sends his kids to, but now can't afford, she's out of work too. They can't keep their house payments up, so it will quietly go into forclosure, along with some others, making the house someone else needs to sell worth much less. The waitress and cook lost their houses too, so now, not only are there a glut of houses on the market, but no one without a nearly perfect credit score can even think of buying a house or a new car, the banks will pucker up even tighter than they are now.

    And charity? Well, I hope all of the "tax the rich"(cause you aren't one) people are ready to step up and donate til it hurts, because instead of getting a nice (deserved or not) tax break for a donation to a charitable organization, we're going to save that money to replace what we lost to the government because they are unable to rein in unneccesary spending.

    Stop welfare. Just because you are stupid enough to get pregnant does not mean you should get a check. Get a clue, get your tubes tied, just stop making babies you cannot support. There are many options available. Anyone truly determined to raise a child will find a way to do so without our government making it easy. If it is hard and they are hungry, perhaps they will rethink it a bit. Make them piss in a cup before they get a check. If there is anything they don't have a script for intheir system, including tobacco or alcohol, sorry about their luck, no money this month. We've made it way too easy to be stupid and irresponsible in this country.

    Do drive by license plate checks in Section 8 housing. If there is someone living with someone who gets a check from the government, and that person gets an actual paycheck (it's why they don't get married) then that person loses both the apartment and the check.

    Make marjuana legal, tax the hell out of it. Farmers will grow it, so the drug runners will find it so cheap it isn't worth doing. Isn't any worse than beer.

    Make the sitting president pay for all the jet fuel in AF1 if he's going to damn Hawaii on vacation. And the Secret Service.

    Get rid of all the crap, stop redecorating, you live in a nice house for free, let your damn wife cook a meal, you do not need a chef.

    There's more, but we'll just go on the way it is. This country was built on the idea that if you work hard, you can make lots of money and have nice stuff. I work hard, I have nice stuff, DH and I pay well over 150K per year in Federal Income Tax. For what? We give over half that amount to charity. Because we plan our tax answers so that we can help others. Others we choose to help because we feel we should, not ones we're compelled to help because they are poor and stupid. And some of them are poor because they are stupid and lazy and there are no real consequences for that any more.

    And I shouldn't be able to deduct the mortgage interest on my little rental properties?
    Under the new plan our taxes will likely go up around 200K in additional taxes a year.

    And some of you don't think that's enough? My DH is 62 years old. He's owned his own business, started from scratch since 1975. We're trying to save enough so we can eventually retire, and have a comfortable lifestyle, the one he's earned. Of course, that number keeps changing due to the economy, stock market, prices, and yes, taxes. But hey, no problem, we can just give it all to the Feds, let them give it to those who won't work and we'll just live on whatever we have left and depend on the government for retirement income and health care. Right.

    Yeah, that's what he's worked his entire life for. Six days a week for 40 years. So that someone else can decide he doesn't deserve to keep what he's earned.

    If you think that's the "fair"way to "redistribute" income, you are so very wrong.

    And all those of you with starry eyes thinking you're going to be some BNT for a BN owner? Good luck ladies, they'll stop buying competition horses, fold up their tents and go ride at home.


    12 members found this post helpful.

  8. #68
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    Nov. 14, 2011
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    Like I said, I would be more than happy to do my part, were the system set up for that. Our schools and roads are both in terrible repair. I'm glad you mentioned them because things like that, things that us common folk actually reap benefit from, should be priorities. My point is this country has given our government an ungodly amount of money and they have WASTED it. We don't NEED half the sh*t we buy, and the other half is overpriced. Everything is regulated to death.

    It is not logical for me or anyone to willingly throw money at a backwards system set up for failure that is run by people who obviously have no financial management skills. It's insanity.

    Quote Originally Posted by sketcher View Post
    Yeah, and I'll bet you never went to public school or drove on a publicly funded road. Or benefited in any thousands of ways that someone with your level of selfishness can not even begin to grasp. If you don't like it, then get out there and work to change the system.

    I don't think it will have much to do with improving the fiscal situation in this country but everyone should pay equal taxes. However it gets done - national sales tax, graduated income tax where all income regardless of the source is taxed at the same rate.

    And while there need to be changes made to the entitlement programs for sure, I wish people would not so blithly decide that someone who is 55 should all of a sudden be cut off. Frankly, I would say, for those that actually responsibly plan for their future, that 40 would be more fair in terms of cutting off benefits. Even 40 is pushing it in terms of expecting people to revamp their whole strategy in terms of paying off a house, caring for children and elders, putting kids through college and saving for retirement. But it could be done but 55? Seriously?

    "Pat the horse; kick yourself" - Carl Hester


    1 members found this post helpful.

  9. #69
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    Massachusetts
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    Quote Originally Posted by Angelico View Post
    You are damn right. I WORKED for my money, and if I can keep ANY of it from going to the government to go to waste, I will. I am not in debt, nor have I ever been. If I don't have the money, I go without. I don't borrow money either, I save up. What incentive do I have to throw my money to the wind? I can totally understand the concept of everyone pitching in and pulling their own weight, and I would be glad to do my part, but the reality is it is every man/woman for him/herself.


    Quote Originally Posted by Angelico View Post
    Like I said, I would be more than happy to do my part, were the system set up for that.
    No, that is not what you said earlier where you justified not paying your taxes. And now you are saying you would be happy to do X if Y were true but you obviously feel very strongly that Y is not true. Or at least not true enough for you to pay your taxes. So, I'm really not seeing your defense here.

    Except to whine that the roads are not in good enough condition. And I'm sure, should the day come when and if you do not work under the table, you won't be declining your healthcare and social security.


    3 members found this post helpful.

  10. #70
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    midwest
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beentheredonethat View Post
    I wanted to respond to some of this before I forgot. One of the things everyone always brings up is how medicare and social security "cost" us so much. We PAY for it. This is INCOME for the government to give back to us, so counting it as just a drain when you don't count the income part at the same time is inaccurate.

    We get NO money out of the military. EVERYTHING costs and TOO much goes to waste. And don't tell me that's not happening when we go to some fake war and Dick Cheney's company gets all the big contracts to work there, Haliburton, and we spend billions on them, and then he gets out of office and gets a multimillion dollar "bonus" from the. THIS is where we need to start.

    We do NOT need to have the biggest military in the world to protect us and protect the rest of the world, and we certainly do no need to do in the archaic way of sending men on foot or maintaining multimillion dollar bases around the world, let alone paying people to be our friends. Technology is advanced enough that we can do what we need on a much smaller scale. The reason the military is so big is because the politicians have been paid off by those who make a fortune off of it. Let's employ all those military personnel in this country doing something useful here.



    As for the list I posted from somewhere of ideas of how to save, who said it was all about taxing our way out of this? A lot of those ideas are to STOP subsidizing the super rich ( and, no, SS is NOT a subsidy--we pay for it.) We need to CUT, as in the military and subsidizing oil companies, AND have income. I said that on the first post. Any adult in this world knows you can't pay off debt by just making more money--you have to cut spending AND increase income.

    WHY in the world do people keep saying this? Has ANYONE said the answer is to "tax our way out?"
    Do you want me to give you google links for all the military does stateside? Remember those out of control wildfires in Colorado Springs this year? Yup, the military from Fort Carson and the Air Force base helped put those out. Pick a disaster and the National Guard is on site. Sure, cut out waste in all agencies but the military isn't the Holy Grail of waste by a long shot.

    Speaking of waste, had a chat with family yesterday. A family member with a profoundly autistic 6 year old son cringed when they were handed the govt cell phone for the boy with 250 free monthly minutes. Is it medicaid or medicare you use for a child like this?? Anyway, they were horrified at the waste and about the fact that the govt will give them a $25 gift card for the first 8 doctor visits this year. The govt told them that preventative care reduces healthcare cost and the gift card is an incentive to go see the doctor. Me, like the parents, see it as vote buying.

    The next example at this holiday get together is the 20 year old mother of a 3 year old boy who married the boys father this year. Neither able bodied parent works and they live off govt assistance. They were so excited to announce that they are expecting a second baby in July. Perfect, when you can't afford one child, have another.

    My husband and I have made responsible decisions, delayed getting things, have weathered job losses and rebounded from life's curves for 31 years. As it stands now we'll pay 6K more in taxes next year for doing the right thing. When I hear of the two examples I shared above you better believe it makes me madder than hell.


    5 members found this post helpful.

  11. #71
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    2ndrygal--I agree with perfect pony. You're paying 150 in taxes and you're not rich????? I'm sorry, I live in a VERY expensive area, and if you are taking home more than 250k AFTER taxes, you're rich. Just because you can't afford that jet like the super rich, doesn't mean you're not.

    Perspective is a good thing.

    The wealthiest in our society are paying the LOWEST taxes in 80 years. Their income has gone up 300 % in the last 20 years, while it's about 56% for most people.

    Not all of your ideas are bad, but start at the TOP, with the BIGGEST welfare queens, like the oil companies and Mitt Romney who pays half the taxes I do and made $20 million off of the auto bailout. I'd LOVE to get the drug addict welfare queen off my bill in my neighborhood, but putting her and her child on the street, and the crime it will cause, and what that will cost, and the hospital bills I will pay, and the jail I will pay at $40K a year is a LOT more than food stamps and section 8.

    Perspective is a good thing.


    3 members found this post helpful.

  12. #72
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    SLW--Did you not read what I said. Of COURSE we should use those military personnel at home in OUR country. Yes, they can fight fires. YES, they can be emergency personnel. YEs, they can build roads. Yes, they can care for and teach children. Yes, they can do SO many things to help people here. THAT was my point.

    WOW. I am STUNNED that you see preventative healthcare as buying a vote. It's CHEAPER to keep people healthy than pay for when they get really sick, just like it's cheaper to educate and treat children of "slutty" unwed mothers well than pay for their lawyer, criminal behavior, and jail.

    I am SO with you on people having kids. Wouldn't it be CHEAPER to giver FREE birth control or sterilization rather than whining about FREE healthcare, and then we don't have to pay for that kid's bills his whole life. Hey, I'm all for mandatory sterilization at birth and you have to pass as test at least as hard as getting a driver's license to have a kid. Can you get the right wing on board with that?


    1 members found this post helpful.

  13. #73
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    Wow, good, rational ideas here! Just last week I was remarking to the SO that everyone on the federal payroll and ALL government departments/entitlements/etc. take a 10% "haircut" across the whole spectrum. No exceptions. End or severely decrease pensions for Congress, the Senate, the executive branch, the courts, all of 'em. They have pocketed enough cash during their terms to line their nests for the rest of their lives.

    What health care plan is good enough for US is good enough for THEM.

    And yes, back to the Clinton-era tax rates. Or at the very least, let the Bush-era cuts stand. And no estate taxes. That money was taxed at least once already when the deceased person was alive!


    2 members found this post helpful.

  14. #74
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    Whoo Hoo, Figgy! I think we should copy this thread and send it to all them bums!



  15. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beentheredonethat View Post
    I wanted to respond to some of this before I forgot. One of the things everyone always brings up is how medicare and social security "cost" us so much. We PAY for it. This is INCOME for the government to give back to us, so counting it as just a drain when you don't count the income part at the same time is inaccurate.

    We get NO money out of the military. EVERYTHING costs and TOO much goes to waste. And don't tell me that's not happening when we go to some fake war and Dick Cheney's company gets all the big contracts to work there, Haliburton, and we spend billions on them, and then he gets out of office and gets a multimillion dollar "bonus" from the. THIS is where we need to start.

    We do NOT need to have the biggest military in the world to protect us and protect the rest of the world, and we certainly do no need to do in the archaic way of sending men on foot or maintaining multimillion dollar bases around the world, let alone paying people to be our friends. Technology is advanced enough that we can do what we need on a much smaller scale. The reason the military is so big is because the politicians have been paid off by those who make a fortune off of it. Let's employ all those military personnel in this country doing something useful here.



    As for the list I posted from somewhere of ideas of how to save, who said it was all about taxing our way out of this? A lot of those ideas are to STOP subsidizing the super rich ( and, no, SS is NOT a subsidy--we pay for it.) We need to CUT, as in the military and subsidizing oil companies, AND have income. I said that on the first post. Any adult in this world knows you can't pay off debt by just making more money--you have to cut spending AND increase income.

    WHY in the world do people keep saying this? Has ANYONE said the answer is to "tax our way out?"
    You obviously know very little about how government purchasing works. Also, our bases overseas are often times maintained by the local government of that country in exchange for keeping their people in a job market.

    Example: While I was stationed at Yokota AB, the base was on a free lease to the US, 90% of the base utilities(housing included) were also paid by the Japanese, in exchange, the US "employed" 90% Japanese workers on base. I say "employed" because their wages were covered by the Japanese government, we just provided the job slot so essentially we got a heck of a lot of free labor. I know that German bases work much the same way.

    Government contracting, it's ALWAYS competed for fair market value, the only time it's not is when a company can prove that their the only one that makes the product and then, it's justified to the hilt, I don't care how much you're spending. For a project to the tune of $150k I spent an entire week on the justification. Just so happens that this company is the only one that makes lifelike animatronics for medical training that simulate IED explosion victims, complete with spurting blood and screams.

    It's really not as simple as "wasting" money in the DoD, we have a hell of a lot of rules to follow when it comes to spending money, including but not limited to about 10 different manuals, then you have your MAJCOM instructions and if you're lucky, after that you only have your bases rules to contend with.


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  16. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by ThreeFigs View Post
    Wow, good, rational ideas here! Just last week I was remarking to the SO that everyone on the federal payroll and ALL government departments/entitlements/etc. take a 10% "haircut" across the whole spectrum. No exceptions. End or severely decrease pensions for Congress, the Senate, the executive branch, the courts, all of 'em. They have pocketed enough cash during their terms to line their nests for the rest of their lives.

    What health care plan is good enough for US is good enough for THEM.

    And yes, back to the Clinton-era tax rates. Or at the very least, let the Bush-era cuts stand. And no estate taxes. That money was taxed at least once already when the deceased person was alive!
    Oh yes, my husband and I would love a pay cut to satisfy the general public while we put our asses on the line in the desert...absofreakinglutely. We're at best, middle class and we're just squeaking by but we'll take a "federal payroll cut".


    4 members found this post helpful.

  17. #77
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    AirtForceWife--You know I like you--you invited me to dinner Xmas eve!

    I don't know what you're responding to, but it wasn't my post. I am not even talking about wasted money on wrenches and such. I'm talking about just cutting the military back. We do not need such a big military.

    I don't know about Japan, but the embassy in Iraq is insane:
    As the Department of Defense pulls out and its spending drops, the State Department is expecting its costs to skyrocket. State asked Congress for $2.7 billion for its Iraqi operations in fiscal year 2011, and got $2.1 billion. It wants $6.2 billion for next year. The Senate Foreign Relations Committee estimates that State's plans will cost $25 to $30 billion over the next five years.

    Patrick Kennedy, undersecretary of state for management, told the Commission on Wartime Contracting in June that State intends to pay $3 billion in the next five years on its major private security contracts alone.

    While $6 billion a year might not seem like much compared to the estimated $806 billion in direct appropriations spent on the Iraq war and reconstruction thus far, that is still an enormous amount of money. Consider, for instance, that the State Department's total operating budget this year is about $14 billion.

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/0..._n_965945.html

    And I don't think Figgy was referring to low paid military personnel when she referred to government workers. More the overpriced bigwigs, contractors, and general government workers.


    1 members found this post helpful.

  18. #78
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    While I'm certain that there's a lot of frivolous spending, people directly relate it to military spending when in reality, we're not "at war" there, we're nation building at this point, building foreign relations. A ton of the projects right now are schools, government buildings, things that we don't need to do but we are. I wish all of this nation building crap could have it's own pot of money so that people can't blame it on us. It's not us! Hell, I wish my office could get funding for general supplies that we need, instead we beg, borrow and steal while Iraq and Afghanistan get tons of money spent on them. News Flash Big Brother, they blew our asses up!



  19. #79
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    A couple of problems:

    Wars are lucrative. Not fighting them yourself, mind you, but selling weapons.
    Those are probably the US top export item.

    In times of recession, it is the government's obligation to spend money.
    'You are crazy' you say 'that is stupid'
    well, actually not.
    because in times of recession the private sector is not spending money. Everybody is cutting back spending. Which means less money is going around.
    In the fat years government is supposed to cut spending and safe.


    Foreign aid....
    Usually the rewards for every dollar spend flow back ten fold.
    So foreign aid does not cost much but the rewards are great.
    just ask China: While the west was looking the other way they have made great strides on the Dark Continent. A largely untapped field of enormous resources. Invest a few bucks in streets, schools and hospitals, reap rewards many fold higher in turn in the form of much needed raw materials, gold, diamonds, platinum, oil....and so much more.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mozart View Post
    Personally, I think the moderate use of shock collars in training humans should be allowed.


    2 members found this post helpful.

  20. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beentheredonethat View Post
    Hey, I'm all for mandatory sterilization at birth and you have to pass as test at least as hard as getting a driver's license to have a kid. Can you get the right wing on board with that?
    Most of my crazy right friends thought up that idea. Mention sterilization to lefties and watch them go mad.


    1 members found this post helpful.

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