[luvmytbs]

I am all for closing some loopholes in tax write offs, however suggesting to apply that to, for instance, mortgage write offs or charitable giving should not be part of the plan.

[5]

Ten Ways To Avoid The Fiscal Cliff

11-Impose tarriffs on imports. For the first century that alone funded the government.

12- Boot out the Federal Reserve and Before they leave hand them a bill for every dollar they created since 1913. The dollar has lost 98% of its purchasing power since they started- who have they and their jeckle island cronies funneled the excess to? Find out what they spent it on and get it back.

The States can revert to commodity backed money- copper, nickle, silver, gold, platinum beaver pelts, time and labor credits- I don't care as long as fractional reserve lending and interest rates are not involved.

The more Washington gets, the more it spends. Where the H... is all this money going?

Good point. Lets just do a forensic audit and if fraud/corruption/conflict of interest/ethics violations/ are found sue to get the money back.

No more black bugets, no more paying the average federal employee 37% more than the same civilian job, No more taxpayer serfdom.

[grandprixjump]

Stop the A$$hole companies from raping Medicare by selling $45 health items (back brace currently), to medicare recipients for $400.

Secondly and MOST IMPORTANT put a check book ledger up in the capital building and they can't write a check UNLESS the money is there.

[Daydream Believer]

I personally liked Ron Paul's plan...he even has balance sheets on his site of how to do it.


http://www.ronpaul.com/media/RestoreAmericaPlan.pdf

[vineyridge]

Go back to excise taxes on more things. I'm old enough to remember the taxes that we had to pay for WWII.

What I'd really like to see is a stamp type tax on land and stock transactions. Do you realize how many shares of stock change hands every day with computer driven trading? Not having those transactions taxed encourages day trading which is good for nothing but the traders' pockets. Put a tax of (say) a nickel or 1 or 2% by value on every share that is bought and sold. Collect it from the traders. This will discourage day trading (which IMO would be a good thing) and raise revenue in ways that when looked at in the micro world would be infinitesimal. Put the same percent on all property transfers. We did this after WWII and it didn't seem to make a difference in the economy.

Raise the Social Security tax income cap to match inflation.

Since I'm already on SS, I do not favor the chain inflation measure. After we are all reduced to eating macaroni and cheese and buying clothes at Walmart, what happens then? Besides the CPI really doesn't measure actual inflation very well for people who can't afford to buy many things that it measures. Do you who have horses believe that the price of the things that we have to buy (feed, fuel, hay) has only gone up a couple of percent in the past few years? Medical cost inflation always exceeds the CPI rate. Human food has gone up outrageously. Fuel, don't make me laugh. It's gone up far more than 1.7% in the past year. Clothes? Social Security has announced that payments out will increase by 1.7% for next year. At the same time the Medicare premium has gone up by almost 6%

[Jack16]

Get rid of a majority of government workers. I know that sounds harsh but I have consulted with government contractor companies, federal government agencies and state agencies. Actually the fed too. I have never in my life seen so much inefficiency, wasted money and wasted time. When I was at the Department of the Interior as a grad student intern I worked for an upper level person making well over $250k a year who had an office packed up the entire 6 months I was there and maybe showed up twice a week if I was lucky. His boss had nothing but negative things to say about his performance but there was nothing anyone could easily do to get him out. That's where our tax dollars are going.

[luvmytbs]

If he earned it how is that any business of yours?

My point was: Would it put him in the poor house if he received net pay of 2.4 versus 2.5 million a month via a slight tax increase?

[LMH]

My point was: Would it put him in the poor house if he received net pay of 2.4 versus 2.5 million a month via a slight tax increase?

LOL...probably not...but that isn't or shouldn't be 'the point' should it?

That is only the point if you believe in a country of economic 'fairness' as opposed to one of fairness of opportunity (and even the ability to truly provide that is debatable).

I guess I just don't look at people with more than I have and feel they should do more for 'me'...

While I do personally think everyone who 'has' should feel a moral obligation to do something for those with 'less'-I just don't want that obligation running those an organization (the government) that has no credibility when it comes to spending.

The government is running a Money Pit so until that hole is plugged, I see no reason to ask for more...

[vineyridge]

The tax system is a complicated thing. It's not just a way to fund the government. History has showed that in capitalist societies, income tends to aggregate at the top. The capitalists make out like robbers while the rest of society loses wealth to them. In short, just as unregulated business tends to monopoly, unregulated accumulation of wealth tends to vast income inequality--oligopoly, as it were.

The tax system has been used for years to fight this tendency. There are good philosophical reasons why we have a graduated income tax and not a flat one. Same for estate tax. It keeps "ownership" from becoming static, keeps property moving around instead of being concentrated in just a few. It basically is intended to keep the US from becoming a class stratified society.

When we ignore the other purpose of taxation, we push closer and closer to class stratification through income inequality. That's what seems to be happening now.

If we tax income and wealth and use the funds to improve society as a whole, and the person taxed is still able to live a comfortable or luxurious life style after taxes, who loses?

One thing that will happen is that the impetus to obscene salaries will be diminished because the beneficiary will not benefit nearly as much.

I think we should get rid of capital gains taxes on property that is not held for at least ten years, and RAISE the regular income tax rates in a graduated fashion.

[Perfect Pony]

If we tax income and wealth and use the funds to improve society as a whole, and the person taxed is still able to live a comfortable or luxurious life style after taxes, who loses?

One thing that will happen is that the impetus to obscene salaries will be diminished because the beneficiary will not benefit nearly as much.

I always have to laugh at people that say things like, "If we tax income over $XX amount, people will simply stop working once they get to that amount". I say, Let Them! There will always be some other person to step up and do that work and make that money. How many upper middle class jobs could that $40M CEO salary support?

The problem is, people who make $10M a year don't necessarily work that much harder than someone making $100K. At a certain point it's not about adding value, it's about hoarding because you can.

[Beentheredonethat]

"Good point. Lets just do a forensic audit and if fraud/corruption/conflict of interest/ethics violations/ are found sue to get the money back. " I love this idea--if you get sued when you screw the people, that might fix a lot.

I think Obama's plan for medicare is to stop providers from ripping it off with overpricing. That was his $700 billion savings versus Ryan's savings was taking it out of people's pockets, wasn't it?

Vinery--Love your ideas.

[LMH]

To be fair, Obamacare is certainly not SHY about taking more out of pockets...

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/here...are-next-year/

[carolprudm]

Get rid of a majority of government workers. I know that sounds harsh but I have consulted with government contractor companies, federal government agencies and state agencies. Actually the fed too. I have never in my life seen so much inefficiency, wasted money and wasted time. When I was at the Department of the Interior as a grad student intern I worked for an upper level person making well over $250k a year who had an office packed up the entire 6 months I was there and maybe showed up twice a week if I was lucky. His boss had nothing but negative things to say about his performance but there was nothing anyone could easily do to get him out. That's where our tax dollars are going.

Mr P was SES. The max pay is about $180K a year.

[Beentheredonethat]

Sounds great. The employers and big companies will pay a little more so everyone gets healthcare and we don't lose so much more by them using the ER for basic care. And I'm all for the huge money making medical and big pharma paying their dues as well as taxing tanning booths. Seems like a good start it getting income from the right places, not by cutting care for the elderly.

To be fair, Obamacare is certainly not SHY about taking more out of pockets...

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/here...are-next-year/

[Jack16]

Mr P was SES. The max pay is about $180K a year.

The project I was working on there essentially was taking into account the cost of an employee so that would be pay and benefits. As we all know benefits are a pretty big chunk of change. Either way, even if he was making $10k a year, it was being wasted on someone who did mostly nothing.

[Eclectic Horseman]

I work for state government and I cannot avoid paying every single penny that I owe in taxes. What I see are far too many people who don't pay taxes! Not just because of legal tax loopholes or off shore tax havens, and not just because they are receiving public benefits. But millions of every day people who have their own businesses or who work for tips. That includes:

-wait staff
-hair stylists
-electricians
-plumbers
-cab drivers
-farriers
-horse trainers/riding instructors
-gardeners

The list is HUGE! Avoiding taxes, legally or illegally, is the national passtime!

I think that it is time for a national sales tax. Let the biggest consumers pay the most taxes. Obviously, exempt clothing, food and medicine. If you don't want to pay taxes, don't buy so much stuff! I really don't think it would hurt the economy as much as you might think--since many european countries have such taxes and don't seem to be affected.

Maybe it is just me, but a national sales tax seems much simpler and fairer to me than an income tax.

[happymom]

What income?

Progress Energy in Citrus Co FL "decided" this year not to pay $16 million dollars in taxes.

[wendy]

I think you all might be overlooking the real problem- an economy has to be based on people actually making something and then selling it, or selling labor (services). Since all the "real" stuff now appears to be made not-in-the-USA, what is the US economy based on? we don't make much of anything. We buy lots of stuff from other countries and don't sell them anything, including labor. Our economy is based on fluff and hot air.

[Guilherme]

Since all the so-called "experts in Washington are having such a hard time with this, maybe we should make a list and send it to them. Since I have an actual job and live in the real world, I know when I get into debt, I have to spend less AND increase income, so I'm good with letting taxes go up a bit, somewhere near Clinton era.

REDUCE military spending. WHY do we have the biggest, most expensive military in the world and GIVE ungodly amounts of money to other countries, and why will no on speak of this? (Well, I know the answer. All of the politicians are being bought by the parties that get all of this money.) Just think of what our country would be like if we put all of that money and manpower into our infrastructure, kids, elderly?

Your turn.

The Federal Budget stands at roughly $3.5 Trillion, with a deficit of about $1.5 Trillion. In 2011 (the last year with complete numbers) DoD spending was about 19% of total Fed. expenditures.

On top of the DoD budget there is additional "security spending" 17% of total Fed. expenditures (Homeland Security, FBI, part of DoJ, Veterans Affairs, etc.).

Medicare runs about 23% of Fed. expenditures.

Social Security runs about 20% of Fed. expenditures.

Other non-discretionary runs about 16% of Fed. expenditures.

If you shut down the DoD you would not cut the annual deficit even in half.

The hard truth is that if you apply the Willie Sutton Principle to the Federal Budget DoD comes in a weak third in expenditure. Now you know where the government has to go if they are going to seriously cut spending.

How about raising taxes? I've tried to get some numbers that I trust on just how much the Obama plan would raise and I'm not finding any numbers that are viable. The place that really should know, the IRS, does not seem to have put out anything on this. That's a surprise given their data base. If anyone has some good numbers I'd like to review them.

Remember, too, that while we are not at war with anybody a whole bunch of people are at war with US. Do I need to recount the events of the past 15 years or so?

You sleep soundly BECAUSE we have the military and naval capability that we do. De-construct those capabilities and you might want to think about buying one of the prepper bunkers that they show on TV; you'll likely need it.

G.

And don't forget to pick up a Bushmaster or two along with a 1000 rounds of ammo.

[carolprudm]

The project I was working on there essentially was taking into account the cost of an employee so that would be pay and benefits. As we all know benefits are a pretty big chunk of change. Either way, even if he was making $10k a year, it was being wasted on someone who did mostly nothing.

There are people like that in all places of employment though I doubt he was raking in $70 K in benefits. I know Mr P certainly wasn't receiving nearly that much. But it is fun to steriotype government employees as lazy leeches.

The CEO of the company I worked for would brag about the number of times he finished his "work" early (averaged to more than twice a week)and went to play golf. Meanwhile 60 hour work weeks were the norm or our dept and 80 hours a week was certainly not unheard of. He was one of Jack Welch's protegees from GE and presided over a steady shift of compensation away from the regular employees to the paychecks of the upper management..