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  1. #141
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    1st amendment gave us the right to free speech, assembly and freedom to and from religion.
    2nd amendment gave "the individual" the right to bear arms, per most recent SOCUS decision.
    At the time this contract between the people and the government was written no other country on earth allowed such freedoms. I believe it was Bluey who stated in their country of birth, meetings by friends were kept small because it was not allowed.


    There are already ~20,000 gun laws on the records. About 19,900 more than on the 1st amendment. Additional 'gun control laws' are meant to restrict, circumvent or completely take away the right to bear/own guns.

    Again we need to look at ourselves as to why gun violence has increased. The problem is the not the weapon of choice - the problem is why anyone has the need to use any weapon against the defenseless.
    "Never do anything that you have to explain twice to the paramedics."
    Courtesy my cousin Tim


    3 members found this post helpful.

  2. #142
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    Dec. 22, 2000
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    Quote Originally Posted by IveGotRhythm View Post
    But the shooter was a convicted felon. Meaning that he could not legally own a gun. Meaning that he obtained his gun ILLEGALLY.

    How are gun control laws going to help with that?
    How about by eliminating the giant loophole of untracked private sales?


    5 members found this post helpful.

  3. #143
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    Feb. 5, 2010
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    Quote Originally Posted by cowboymom View Post
    If the only variable we change is the gun laws... how are we supposed to feel safer around the criminals that break the laws to kill? Do we really think that if the only thing we change is the legality of guns the violent troubled people won't move to another weapon?
    As I stated earlier, you can't walk into WalMart and buy a bomb. Guns are the most readily available and easiest obtained "weapon of mass destruction," the only thing that you can legally buy, whole, that could mow down a bunch of people in seconds. Making a bomb is more complex, takes more effort and research, etc. And how many bomb killings have there been recently? Nothing compared to the mass shootings.

    Seriously, the fact that people don't even think we should stop selling the Bushmaster rifles, etc. (NO, I am NOT saying we should get rid of all guns) is incomprehensible to me. We need to compromise and reach a middle ground. Make sure people who do have guns are very thoroughly screened,etc. Your right to own guns does not mean you have a right to own a military-grade weapon. Think of those poor little children, and their families who will never again have a truly happy Christmas. And if you still think we should have the right to own weapons that can fire 100 rounds in a minute, well, in my opinion you are heartless.


    6 members found this post helpful.

  4. #144
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    What about this idea? I heard it on the radio the other day. Guns can be made so that only the registered owners can fire them. I know it's a huge changeover, but maybe an idea.

    http://www.keepandbeararms.com/infor...tem.asp?id=905



  5. #145
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    Quote Originally Posted by MHM View Post
    How about by eliminating the giant loophole of untracked private sales?
    THIS. Here in VA, private sales pretty much are a black market by design. Lots of people pick up firearms through individual sales and the gun shows which also fall under the unregulated private sale banner. If you go to a gun show in VA, you'll see all sorts of nasty looking weaponry that anyone can have for cash.
    Thus do we growl that our big toes have,
    at this moment, been thrown up from below!


    5 members found this post helpful.

  6. #146
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    May. 6, 2006
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    rapidan,virginia
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    While I would not be opposed to registering the weapons in my household, nor do I oppose restrictions on private sales, there are currently an estimated 80 MILLION gun owners in the U.S. How in the world would we enforce such legislation over that many of our citizens, especially since the majority of them are not breaking any laws through their ownership of these personal weapons?
    "Can you imagine what I would do if I could do all I can?" Sun Tzu, The Art of War
    Rainy: http://tinyurl.com/kj7x53c
    Stash: http://tinyurl.com/mmm3p4e



  7. #147
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    Quote Originally Posted by stolen virtue View Post
    No, the pity is with the idea that we are no longer a new country and some of you are incapable of moving into the year 2012. So glad that many of the people who still believe in the literal translation of the second ammendment are elderly and not a part of the majority in 2012.
    So, do you want the words "literally" applied as they were in 1789 or 2012? The time you choose for your "literal" application will make a difference.

    Your comments about the "elderly" are rude, insulting, and demonstrate the utter intellectual bankruptcy of your argument. You are either incredibly stupid or have drunk the "kool-aid" of some "gun control guru." Or maybe your'e just a shill for the Biden Bunch (f/k/a The Brady Bunch).

    I'm a retired Naval Officer with more than 24 years of service. I've never had the honor of commanding "draftees" but I've lots of friends in the Army and Marines who did. The WWII guys didn't have much issue with that. The Viet Nam era guys did. That's why we don't have a draft anymore.

    As a Naval Officer and an attorney I've spent more than 50 years supporting and defending the Constitution of the U.S. Engage in ad hominem argument and you're gonna get some "push back." When you've spent 50 years in the service of liberty then you can make wise cracks about us "elderly." Until then follow the advice of of that Wise French Philosopher and don't miss an opportunity to keep your mouth shut.

    And have Merry Christmas!!!

    G.

    CDR, USNR (Ret.)
    Member, State Bar of Texas (Retired)
    Mangalarga Marchador: Uma Raça, Uma Paixão


    8 members found this post helpful.

  8. #148
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    Dec. 31, 2009
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    Quote Originally Posted by Larksmom View Post
    1 I am a supporter of gun rights. I am NOT a member of any gun club, NRA or anything like that.
    2 With rights comes RESPONSIBILITY. Did that mother of the shooter have a RIGHT to have guns? Yes. Should she have shown RESPONSIBILITY in not having them in her house with a... damaged child? Hell NO.
    People these days are always screeching about their rights, but they never want to take responsibility for their actions.
    3 I do not think there were armed officers at Columbine until AFTER the shooting started. In fact the only place where there were guns, and they weren't where the shooting was-weren't allowed- was at Ft Hood. These shooters target places like GUN FREE ZONES because they know they will have no competition. Most of these mouth breathers shoot themselves when the real guns show up.
    As far as arming a cop or better, a trained soldier, screened of course, to walk around the schools, what a great use of resources! So many returning vets, with no jobs, this might be a way to kill two birds... [sorry I couldn't help it] They waste so much money on schools, they could do without an adminnistrator or two. It actually might generate some respect for the law if the kids got to know an actual policeman.
    Give the kids someone else to look up to. It wouldn't have to generate fear if you didn't make it so.

    Since all of these shooters have been mentally unbalanced, it is clear to me, we need to do more about the mental health system, than shriek about guns.
    I agree with this post. The reason why Lanza went after little kids in a school was because they were unarmed and unable to fight back.
    I LOVE my Chickens!


    2 members found this post helpful.

  9. #149
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    Quote Originally Posted by stolen virtue View Post
    No, the pity is with the idea that we are no longer a new country and some of you are incapable of moving into the year 2012. So glad that many of the people who still believe in the literal translation of the second ammendment are elderly and not a part of the majority in 2012.
    Mm, sorry I missed this last night. Your hope that believers in the 2nd Amendment will simply die off soon is based on what assumption? My husband and I are far from elderly and our two sons, both enrolled in military colleges with the plan to commission in the Armed Forces, certainly share in our understanding of the rights we hold as citizens of this country. And you should hope that there are plenty of other young people who believe as my sons do, as they are the ones who will be working to preserve YOUR freedoms.
    "Can you imagine what I would do if I could do all I can?" Sun Tzu, The Art of War
    Rainy: http://tinyurl.com/kj7x53c
    Stash: http://tinyurl.com/mmm3p4e


    3 members found this post helpful.

  10. #150
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    Sep. 7, 2009
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    Lexington, KY
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beentheredonethat View Post
    What about this idea? I heard it on the radio the other day. Guns can be made so that only the registered owners can fire them. I know it's a huge changeover, but maybe an idea.

    http://www.keepandbeararms.com/infor...tem.asp?id=905
    NRA is totally against it, as well as against marking ammunition so it can be traced.
    "We can judge the heart of a man by his treatment of animals." ~Immanuel Kant


    3 members found this post helpful.

  11. #151
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    Quote Originally Posted by Megaladon View Post
    I agree with this post. The reason why Lanza went after little kids in a school was because they were unarmed and unable to fight back.
    You have absolutely no idea why Lanza went to the school. None at all. None of us do, and we may never know.
    "We can judge the heart of a man by his treatment of animals." ~Immanuel Kant


    5 members found this post helpful.

  12. #152
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    Feb. 25, 2012
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    Montana
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    Quote Originally Posted by LauraKY View Post
    You have absolutely no idea why Lanza went to the school. None at all. None of us do, and we may never know.
    Although for some reason he did not go to the gun range to start his spree there.

    And Merry Christmas!


    3 members found this post helpful.

  13. #153
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    Feb. 25, 2012
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    Montana
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    Quote Originally Posted by Guilherme View Post
    When you've spent 50 years in the service of liberty then you can make wise cracks about us "elderly."
    Big thumbs up, G.

    Merry Christmas!


    3 members found this post helpful.

  14. #154
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    Dec. 16, 2012
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    33

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    Again, I have to laugh at the lack of common sense people use to inact more laws governing guns! Registered gun owners are not the problem here! Nor has it been shown that firearms used in crimes have been obtained from private sales. Wake up, American anti gunners, quit pointing fingers and let's start working together for a real solution. More money in health care, criminal sentencing guidlines, discipline of our youth, and push to teach our youth the value of human life through spiritual guidlines whatever it may be.


    1 members found this post helpful.

  15. #155
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    Jul. 14, 2000
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    midwest
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    10,270

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    The president does endorse armed security at schools given that Sidwell Friends has an armed force and is currently seeking to fill the "overnight" position. The force of 11 officers is separate from whatever the Secret Service sends each day with the obama's girls.

    http://www.sidwell.edu/news/article/...3&moduleid=379

    I would hope we all agree that the safety of our children is not determined by who pays $28K and up annually for a K-12 education.


    2 members found this post helpful.

  16. #156
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    Nov. 18, 2010
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    california
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    Quote Originally Posted by Guilherme View Post
    So, do you want the words "literally" applied as they were in 1789 or 2012? The time you choose for your "literal" application will make a difference.

    Your comments about the "elderly" are rude, insulting, and demonstrate the utter intellectual bankruptcy of your argument. You are either incredibly stupid or have drunk the "kool-aid" of some "gun control guru." Or maybe your'e just a shill for the Biden Bunch (f/k/a The Brady Bunch).

    I'm a retired Naval Officer with more than 24 years of service. I've never had the honor of commanding "draftees" but I've lots of friends in the Army and Marines who did. The WWII guys didn't have much issue with that. The Viet Nam era guys did. That's why we don't have a draft anymore.

    As a Naval Officer and an attorney I've spent more than 50 years supporting and defending the Constitution of the U.S. Engage in ad hominem argument and you're gonna get some "push back." When you've spent 50 years in the service of liberty then you can make wise cracks about us "elderly." Until then follow the advice of of that Wise French Philosopher and don't miss an opportunity to keep your mouth shut.

    And have Merry Christmas!!!

    G.

    CDR, USNR (Ret.)
    Member, State Bar of Texas (Retired)
    In case you missed the last election, the far right (and I put your views there) did not garner the votes for their far right boy, Romney. The demographics are changing, whites are a minority population in many areas especially Calif. The idea that the second ammendment gives people the right to own any weapon that makes them happy, is simply not in the majority. That voting population is not increasing it is decreasing.

    I am sorry that you took offense to that point.

    Have a wonderfull Christmas Day !


    1 members found this post helpful.

  17. #157
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    Dec. 22, 2000
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    NY
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    Quote Originally Posted by LauraKY View Post
    NRA is totally against it, as well as against marking ammunition so it can be traced.
    They seem to be against doing anything other than pointing fingers at others.


    1 members found this post helpful.

  18. #158
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    Dec. 28, 2003
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    US
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    Quote Originally Posted by Guilherme View Post
    So, do you want the words "literally" applied as they were in 1789 or 2012? The time you choose for your "literal" application will make a difference.

    Your comments about the "elderly" are rude, insulting, and demonstrate the utter intellectual bankruptcy of your argument. You are either incredibly stupid or have drunk the "kool-aid" of some "gun control guru." Or maybe your'e just a shill for the Biden Bunch (f/k/a The Brady Bunch).

    I'm a retired Naval Officer with more than 24 years of service. I've never had the honor of commanding "draftees" but I've lots of friends in the Army and Marines who did. The WWII guys didn't have much issue with that. The Viet Nam era guys did. That's why we don't have a draft anymore.

    As a Naval Officer and an attorney I've spent more than 50 years supporting and defending the Constitution of the U.S. Engage in ad hominem argument and you're gonna get some "push back." When you've spent 50 years in the service of liberty then you can make wise cracks about us "elderly." Until then follow the advice of of that Wise French Philosopher and don't miss an opportunity to keep your mouth shut.

    And have Merry Christmas!!!

    G.

    CDR, USNR (Ret.)
    Member, State Bar of Texas (Retired)
    Classiest COTH smackdown ever!

    Also, just for the record, I agree with G. completely on this issue, even though I'm pretty much the polar opposite of the old, rich, conservative white male stereotype (being absolutely none of those things). This issue is deeper than that. People from all walks of life care about and have an interest in gun ownership.


    3 members found this post helpful.

  19. #159
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    Dec. 11, 2006
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    Quote Originally Posted by ESG View Post
    No - we "arrived here" by the passage of the Gun Free Schools Act of 1994, which mandated the prohibition of firearms in public schools. Prior to the passage of this act, there was not a single mass shooting in schools in America. Since the passage of that act, there have been fourteen (14) mass shootings (defined as shootings with more than three victims) in American schools.
    Do the math.
    Do some research? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of..._United_States (note: the following are ONLY the shootings with 3 or more victims. There are many, many more single shootings/suicides listed as well.)

    The earliest known United States shooting to happen on school property was the Pontiac's Rebellion school massacre on July 26, 1764, where four Lenape American Indians entered the schoolhouse near present-day Greencastle, Pennsylvania, shot and killed schoolmaster Enoch Brown, and killed nine or ten children (reports vary). Only three children survived.

    April 9, 1891: The first known mass shooting in the U.S. where students were shot by an American citizen, when 70 year old James Foster fired a shotgun at a group of students in the playground of St. Mary's Parochial School, Newburgh, New York, causing minor injuries to several of the students. The majority of attacks during this time period by students on other students or teachers usually involved stabbing with knives or hitting with stones.

    November 12, 1966: Mesa, Arizona. Bob Smith, 18, took seven people hostage at Rose-Mar College of Beauty, a school for training beauticians. Smith ordered the hostages to lie down on the floor in a circle. He then proceeded to shoot them in the head with a 22-caliber pistol. Four women and a three-year-old girl died, one woman and a baby were injured but survived.

    February 8, 1968: Orangeburg, South Carolina. In the days leading up to February 8, 1968, about 200 mostly student protesters gathered on the campus of South Carolina State University, located in the city of Orangeburg, to protest the segregation of the All Star Bowling Lane. The bowling alley was owned by the late Harry K. Floyd. That night, students started a bonfire. As police attempted to put out the fire, an officer was injured by a thrown piece of banister. The police said they believed they were under attack by small weapons fire. The officers fired into the crowd, killing three young men and wounding twenty-seven others.

    The two most notable U.S. school shootings in the early 1970s were the Jackson State killings in May 1970, where police opened fire on the campus of Jackson State University and the Kent State shootings also in May 1970 where the National Guard opened fire on the campus of Kent State University.

    November 22, 1971: Spokane, Washington. A former MIT student named Larry J. Harmon entered St. Aloysius Roman Catholic Church in Spokane, Washington - his home-town; He was armed with a sledge hammer and a clip-fed .22 caliber rifle. With the hammer he smashed the interior of the church and with the rifle he killed the caretaker. Emerging from the church, which stands on the campus of Gonzaga University, Harmon wounded four more people before police officers shot and killed him. He was 21, and beyond doubt, insane, if that word has any meaning. His father... described his son as a religious fanatic who believed that he had seen the devil and that Christ was an imposter, "the devil incarnate." Frustrated in his attempts to preach this gospel, his father said, Larry went on a rampage."

    December 30, 1974: Olean High School, NY. The gunman, 17-year-old Anthony Barbaro, an honor student and member of the school's rifle team, indiscriminately shot at people on the street from windows at the third floor of the school building. Three people were killed and another 11 people were injured during the shooting.

    February 12, 1976: At Detroit, Michigan's Murray-Wright High School, about six intruders, who according to police looked like junior high students or younger, entered Murray Wright. According to the police they were searching for a student who had "stolen one of their girlfriends." Two teachers discovered the intruders and asked them to leave. A security guard escorted the intruders down a hallway as about six Murray-Wright students followed the intruders as they were leaving. Outside of the door to the school, two of the intruders brandished guns and fired into the group, shooting and injuring five students.

    July 12, 1976: California State University, Fullerton, CA. Edward Charles Allaway, a custodian at the school's library, killed seven people and wounded two others in the library's first-floor lobby and at the building's Instructional Media Center. Allaway's apparent motive was that he thought pornographers were forcing his wife to appear in movies. Five different mental health professionals diagnosed him with paranoid schizophrenia. He remains committed at Patton State Hospital in San Bernardino.

    January 29, 1979: Grover Cleveland Elementary School Shootings, California, where 16-year-old Brenda Ann Spencer opened fire with a rifle, a gift from her father, killing 2 and wounding 9. “I don’t like Mondays.”

    January 22, 1985: Goddard, Kansas James Alan Kearbey, 14, armed with a M1-A semiautomatic rifle and a .357-caliber handgun, killed Principal Joseph McGee and wounded two teachers and a student at his Junior high school.

    October 18, 1985: Detroit, Michigan During halftime of the homecoming football game between Northwestern High School and Murray-Wright High School, a boy who was in a fight earlier that day pulled out a shotgun and opened fire, injuring six students.

    May 20, 1988: Winnetka, Illinois 30 year old Laurie Dann shot and killed one elementary school student and wounded five others, then took a family hostage and shot a man before killing herself.

    September 26, 1988: Greenwood, South Carolina In the cafeteria of the Oakland Elementary School 19 year-old James William Wilson Jr., shot and killed Shequilla Bradley, 8 and wounded eight other children with a 9-round .22 caliber pistol. He went into the girls’ restroom to reload where he was attacked by Kat Finkbeiner, a Physical Education teacher. James shot her in the hand and mouth. He then entered 3rd grade classroom and wounded six more students.

    January 17, 1989: Cleveland School massacre of Stockton, California: 5 school children were killed and 30 wounded by a single gunman firing over 100 rounds into a schoolyard from an AK-47, in which the perpetrator later took his life.

    November 1, 1991, a student shot 6 faculty members, students, and employees at the University of Iowa.

    May 1, 1992: Olivehurst, California Eric Houston, 20, killed four people and wounded 10 in an armed siege at his former high school. Prosecutors said the attack was in retribution for a failing grade.

    There are very seldom reports of mass or multiple school shootings during the first three decades of the 20th Century, with the three most violent attacks on schools involving either arson or explosions. The mid to late 1970s is considered the second most violent period in U.S. school history with a series of school shootings, mostly single victims/suicides. The early 1980s saw many single shootings, similar to the 1970s. The early 1980s saw only a few multi-victim school shootings.

    According to the Center to Prevent Handgun Violence, in the United States, from September 1986 to September 1990:
    • At least 71 people (65 students and 6 school employees) had been killed with guns at school.
    • 201 were severely wounded by gun fire.
    • 242 individuals were held hostage at gunpoint.

    According to a 1987 survey conducted by the American School Health Association, “3% of the boys reported having carried a handgun to school at least once during the school year; 1% reported carrying a handgun on a daily basis."

    From the late 1980s to the early 1990s, the United States saw a sharp increase in guns and gun violence in schools. According to a survey conducted by The Harvard School of Public Health, "15% [of students surveyed] said that they had carried a handgun on their person in the past 30 days, and 4% said that they had taken a handgun to school in the past year," a sharp increase from just five years earlier. By 1993, the United States saw one of the most violent periods in school shooting incidences.

    According to the National School Safety Center, since the 1992-1993 U.S. school year, there has been a significant decline in school-associated violent deaths (deaths on private or public school property for kindergarten through grade 12 and resulting from schools functions or activities):
    • 1992–1993 (44 Homicides and 55 Deaths resulting from school shootings in the U.S.)
    • 1993–1994 (42 Homicides and 51 Deaths resulting from school shootings in the U.S.)
    • 1994–1995 (17 Homicides and 20 Deaths resulting from school shootings in the U.S.)
    • 1995–1996 (29 Homicides and 35 Deaths resulting from school shootings in the U.S.)
    • 1996–1997 (23 Homicides and 25 Deaths resulting from school shootings in the U.S.)
    • 1997–1998 (35 Homicides and 40 Deaths resulting from school shootings in the U.S.)
    • 1998–1999 (25 Homicides from school shootings in the U.S.)
    • 1999–2000 (25 Homicides from school shootings in the U.S.)

    According to the U.S. Department of Education, in the 1998-1999 School Year, 3,523 students (57% High School, 33% Junior High, 10% Elementary) were expelled for bringing a firearm to school.

    The late 1990s started to see a major reduction in gun related school violence, but was still plagued with multiple victim shootings.
    Hmmm. Now what do you suppose happened in the mid-1990s that might have had this mitigating effect on school shootings…?
    I'm not arguing, I'm just explaining why I'm right
    Violence doesn't end violence. It extends it. Break the cycle.



  20. #160
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    Quote Originally Posted by lilitiger2 View Post
    Although for some reason he did not go to the gun range to start his spree there.

    And Merry Christmas!
    There are a lot of places he didn't go...an almost infinite number. There's a reason why shooters go to public places like malls, schools and churches. It's where the people are.

    Merry Christmas, Happy Hanukkah (although it's over), Happy Kwanza, and Happy Festivus. Or whatever your particular choice may be.
    "We can judge the heart of a man by his treatment of animals." ~Immanuel Kant


    3 members found this post helpful.

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