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  1. #1
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    Default NRA: Put armed security in every school

    http://www.cnn.com/2012/12/21/us/con...html?hpt=hp_t2

    So what's to stop the next shooter to focus on a different venue: a playground, a skating rink, a church?

    Are we going to place armed guards in every public place in the country?

    ************************
    \"Horses lend us the wings we lack\"


    4 members found this post helpful.

  2. #2
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    Default

    Since many of the locations of mass shootings have had armed personnel (military, police force, armed guard), we have proof that will not prevent every occurrence. I don't think there is any way to absolutely prevent these things, and while it would be wonderful if we could keep our kids 100% safe, raising them in what amounts it a prison isn't really a healthy alternative either.


    11 members found this post helpful.

  3. #3
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    May. 8, 2006
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    Northern Indiana
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    Default

    Not only would it breed a community of fear (we always seem to be looking for something to be fearful of....Y2K, End of the World, next it'll be radioactive lightning bugs or something).....but realistically, where's the money coming from to pay for it?
    To be loved by a horse should fill us with awe, for we hath not deserved it.


    2 members found this post helpful.

  4. #4
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    Default

    Many schools already have armed security or police allocated to the school system. Unless you're gonna put a SWAT team in every public school, one or two armed security people are going to be worthless. If a situation goes down in a school, the first priority is lockdown and containment. Nobody would be running around trying to stop a shooter, armed or not, because it would increase the danger to the children exponentially. I know Hard Right Conservatives are passionately touching themselves over the idea that some armed Hero or a posse of armed protectors is going to blow away the next school shooter like this and that's just unrealistic fantasy.
    Thus do we growl that our big toes have,
    at this moment, been thrown up from below!


    17 members found this post helpful.

  5. #5
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    Apr. 9, 2012
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    Default

    Do some of these NRA peeps just live in their own fantasy world? (Not saying they're all crazy, but this proposal was pretty... Odd...)
    Born under a rock and owned by beasts!


    5 members found this post helpful.

  6. #6
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    Jan. 26, 2006
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    Fort Worth, Texas
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by randomequine View Post
    Not only would it breed a community of fear (we always seem to be looking for something to be fearful of....Y2K, End of the World, next it'll be radioactive lightning bugs or something).....but realistically, where's the money coming from to pay for it?
    there has been an armed policeman in our schools since the late 1990s; but of course we do pay for this then again we rebuilt all of our schools in our district during the same time period ... I am not aware of "a community of fear" that has developed because of the presences of an arm police officer being in the buildings.


    1 members found this post helpful.

  7. #7
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by luvmytbs View Post
    http://www.cnn.com/2012/12/21/us/con...html?hpt=hp_t2

    So what's to stop the next shooter to focus on a different venue: a playground, a skating rink, a church?

    Are we going to place armed guards in every public place in the country?
    Wayne LaPierre does not believe that armed guards at schools is the best solution to protect the citizenry. What he believes, but won't admit, is that it is the best thing for the NRA. He and his position are contemptible.
    Everyone is entitled to my opinion.


    16 members found this post helpful.

  8. #8
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    Oct. 25, 2012
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    Default Fear Sells . . .

    Quote Originally Posted by LexInVA View Post
    Many schools already have armed security or police allocated to the school system. Unless you're gonna put a SWAT team in every public school, one or two armed security people are going to be worthless. If a situation goes down in a school, the first priority is lockdown and containment. Nobody would be running around trying to stop a shooter, armed or not, because it would increase the danger to the children exponentially. I know Hard Right Conservatives are passionately touching themselves over the idea that some armed Hero or a posse of armed protectors is going to blow away the next school shooter like this and that's just unrealistic fantasy.
    We already have a community of fear. Because fear sells, and the media has been selling it to us, non-stop, since the end of WWII. Which is easy, because the public will believe almost anything that "media people" tell them over and over again, whether or not it contains any truth. "I saw it on TV, so it must be true" is the level of most critical thinking in most of America, alas.

    We are continuously taught that Crime Is Everywhere; that Terrorists Lurk and the Threat is Credible, that everything from pedophiles to subversive messages encoded in cartoons to tainted vaccines to super-germs are lying in wait for your children.

    It really doesn't take that much indoctrination to sell everyone "security" in the form of semi-trained trigger-happy asshats with guns.


    11 members found this post helpful.

  9. #9
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    why would anyone believe this would stop shooters? there have BEEN armed guards present already in some of the shootings- Columbine for example- and it didn't do anything.

    NRA is crazy and out of touch with reality. Why listen to a bunch of fruitloops?

    the obvious solution is to keep the shooters from getting hold of guns- no guns, no shootings. Time to apply the 2nd amendment as it is clearly written- only members of organized militias get to have guns. Everyone else gets to live free of fear because private citizens don't get to collect guns and run around shooting other people.

    Look at any of the countries with strict gun control vs. the US- the stats are obvious, gun control saves lives. No shootings in Australia since they cracked down on private gun ownership.


    7 members found this post helpful.

  10. #10
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    Apr. 3, 2006
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    Spooner, WI
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    Default

    Where is the country I grew up in? A time of innocence and naivete. Of course we were hiding under desks in lieu of a nuclear attack. We did have a bomb shelter or maybe it was just a nuclear meltdown shelter, ICRS.

    I do know that we could move around school freely. No armed nuthin', teachers could actually discipline, even the worst kids never hurt anyone, no fights, no suicides, no ADHD. We didn't eat fake food, sugar was a treat not a staple. Corn syrup came in jars. Gah! So glad I don't have kids or grandkids.


    7 members found this post helpful.

  11. #11
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    Default

    "The only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun,"

    And the above statement totally blew my mind too.
    Who decides who is a "good guy" ?

    Are people really buying into this stuff?

    ************************
    \"Horses lend us the wings we lack\"


    8 members found this post helpful.

  12. #12
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    Feb. 25, 2012
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    Default

    We had a threat here on Friday and I can say my friends with kids in the local school were delighted, calmed, pleased, whatever, to see a very large police presence at the school. I can see letting local communitites decide whether or not they want armed security at schools. Will it STOP all bad guys with guns? No, but it will not make children such tempting (unarmed) targets. Guns are out there and bad guys are going to get them. I don't see why protecting particularly vulnerable populations is such an awful idea. And a sword or baseball bat is not going to help much against guns (sort of like the guy going aginst harrison ford in Indiana jones).


    4 members found this post helpful.

  13. #13
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    Dec. 1, 1999
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    Default As a childless person, who literally has no dog in this fight, let me weigh in...

    1 I am a supporter of gun rights. I am NOT a member of any gun club, NRA or anything like that.
    2 With rights comes RESPONSIBILITY. Did that mother of the shooter have a RIGHT to have guns? Yes. Should she have shown RESPONSIBILITY in not having them in her house with a... damaged child? Hell NO.
    People these days are always screeching about their rights, but they never want to take responsibility for their actions.
    3 I do not think there were armed officers at Columbine until AFTER the shooting started. In fact the only place where there were guns, and they weren't where the shooting was-weren't allowed- was at Ft Hood. These shooters target places like GUN FREE ZONES because they know they will have no competition. Most of these mouth breathers shoot themselves when the real guns show up.
    As far as arming a cop or better, a trained soldier, screened of course, to walk around the schools, what a great use of resources! So many returning vets, with no jobs, this might be a way to kill two birds... [sorry I couldn't help it] They waste so much money on schools, they could do without an adminnistrator or two. It actually might generate some respect for the law if the kids got to know an actual policeman.
    Give the kids someone else to look up to. It wouldn't have to generate fear if you didn't make it so.

    Since all of these shooters have been mentally unbalanced, it is clear to me, we need to do more about the mental health system, than shriek about guns.
    Another killer of threads


    14 members found this post helpful.

  14. #14
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    Default

    Nothing feels more "free" than living under the scope of "good guy" snipers at every corner...

    Really, this idea that we all must carry guns to be protected is insanity.
    Last edited by stolen virtue; Dec. 24, 2012 at 11:41 AM. Reason: spelling (I need more coffee)


    16 members found this post helpful.

  15. #15
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Larksmom View Post
    Since all of these shooters have been mentally unbalanced, it is clear to me, we need to do more about the mental health system, than shriek about guns.
    When I read this, I wonder, "Like what, exactly?" You can make all the resources in the world available, but if someone doesn't take advantage of them, those resources will be of no use. And it is the very NATURE of many mental illnesses NOT to seek help.

    I'm not sure I want to live in a country where someone is forcibly subjected to a psychiatric evaluation for being weird or a loner or whatever.
    Everyone is entitled to my opinion.


    5 members found this post helpful.

  16. #16
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    Default

    I believe in the right to bear arms but I don't think we need guns in schools.

    We need better access to mental health services and firmer solutions to managing people in the middle of a mental crisis.

    I don't think it's possible to effectively ban guns. Look, pot is illegal, and it's easy as pie to get a dime bag all day long. Can you buy a bale of it on the corner? No. But you can get stoned as a rat for about 10 bucks. Killers will kill with the guns already in the system, or with smaller caliber weapons that will never end up banned. The Glock and the Sig Sauer that Lanza was carrying? There's your dime bag of dope.


    4 members found this post helpful.

  17. #17
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    Sep. 7, 2009
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by luvmytbs View Post
    "The only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun,"

    And the above statement totally blew my mind too.
    Who decides who is a "good guy" ?

    Are people really buying into this stuff?
    That just blew my mind. How about making sure the bad guy doesn't GET the gun. Then you don't need the good guy with a gun.

    Really, the whole thing is just absurd. Are we going to arm school bus drivers so kids aren't shot in the bus lines waiting to load? Armed guards at school bus stops? Sharp shooters on church towers and shopping malls.

    Watching LaPierre and his crazy press conference just looked like a SNL skit to me...that's how ridiculous it was.
    "We can judge the heart of a man by his treatment of animals." ~Immanuel Kant


    8 members found this post helpful.

  18. #18
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    Oct. 21, 1999
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    Rochester, NY
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    Default

    Yup, and all those guns, in the hands of all those would be heroes, are the reason that the firefighters in my town had to deal with a house set on fire last year by a young man who had killed members of his own family, and are now having to deal with the deaths of two of their own, and the injury of two more, as they responded to a fire and were fired upon. We have lost two valued members of our community, two real heroes, who only wanted to help, and lost their lives as a result.

    It's time we woke up and admitted we have a gun problem in this country and something has to be done. I'm sick to death of all of these macho gun wavers who dream of being the ones to save the day when a shooter comes to their neighborhood. I'm afraid it's too late for anything to be done. I'm afraid that we waited too long and that there are too many of these things out there to ever be able to see a decrease in this kind of horrific violence. All I know is that my heart breaks for the families of those firefighters, and the people who lost their homes because the firefighters could not get to the scene because of some assh#le with a gun.

    Don't anyone DARE tell me that, if those firefighters had gone in there with guns drawn, they wouldn't be dead now.
    Originally Posted by Alagirl
    We just love to shame poor people...when in reality, we are all just peasants.


    16 members found this post helpful.

  19. #19
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    Jun. 24, 2005
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    Default

    A lot of schools already have "resource" officers, that are armed policemen. Extra cops won't stop anything, unless they're in the right place at the exact right time. The odds of them being exactly where something happens isn't that great.

    Columbine did teach some lessons, and the fact the shooter suicided when the cops broke into the school is directly from Columbine. I was in Colorado when Columbine happened, and watching the SWAT teams and everyone else stand outside while students tried to keep their teacher from bleeding to death, or a partially paralyzed student crawl out a second story window, while the shooters were still in the school infuriated me. Police and other first responders now launch immediate attacks to find the shooter and stop them. If that hadn't happened at Sandy Hook it wouldn't have stopped with 26 people dead.

    The NRA spokesman isn't even reflecting his members, because I've read many reports of NRA members saying that it's time to stop selling weapons that are clearly not for sporting, hunting or self defense, and with huge magazines. And realistically a ban on huge magazines or assault weapons will do nothing to stop the next shooter, but maybe if people with obviously delusional relatives shouldn't have weapons in the house.

    My personal opinion is the mother in this case was as delusional as her son, and I bet he was always very mentally ill, and untreated. He was not on any medications, and the only prescription found in his name was for schizophrenia. And it infuriates me that the Asperger's or Autism Spectrum is mentioned about him. I don't care what the mother said he was, people with Asperger's or Autism don't hurt anyone but themselves. I personally suspect that the reason the son was pulled out of school is because the authorities wanted him diagnosed or treated, and the mother refused.
    You can't fix stupid-Ron White


    2 members found this post helpful.

  20. #20
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    Default

    But sadly, bad guys DO get guns and there is not much we can do about it. Criminals kill people, and steal things and get their hands on meth and coke and other things that are not legal. People do drink and drive, although thats not legal either and make really $hitty choices that impact everyone. Perhaps its because offenders have made up a big part of my practice for almost two decades that i see who is out there, and what they are doing.

    And actually Windsor, on the mental health angle, I agree that I hope we are NOT hoping our mental health folks can do the (so far) impossible and predict violence. I also wonder, assumign we "red flag" some folks, then what? lock them up forever? Send them and their families far far away? We do not have a good definition of "mental illness" even, so I get very concerned about how that is going to look, let alone that I am not going to play policewoman with people who have not actually DONE anything wrong (I feel differently if they have, in fact, done something). Very narly issues.



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