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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jun. 24, 2004
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    South Park
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    3,607

    Thumbs up It is not the gun or the spur or the whip

    From horseman Guy McLean as posted on his Facebook page (hope it's okay to share here?)

    "There is a huge debate on gun ownership in the US at the moment and as an Australian Horseman who doesn't carry a gun you may think I do not have an opinion but I do. At every large show I perform at, at least one person questions my use of a Dressage whip and Stockman spurs as if my only intention is to do my horse damage with them and in my defense I say to them 'That it is never the spur or the whip that has hurt a horse, just like it is never the gun or the knife that kills, it is always the humans intention that decides upon the use of any tool or weapon'. I use my tools of choice with the utmost respect for those who I am dealing with and because of this get above average results. The countless sinful killings we are seeing is not from guns but from lack of respect for each other and fellow man and most importantly for ourselves. If we all could walk one day in the shoes of our enemies we would find we had none,for all of us in our own little worlds are doing the best we can. Out of respect for others, I treat them as I would like to be treated and see that my actions if put in use against me would always be of the highest moral value. It is not the gun, the whip or the spur that should be banned but the hateful intention to hurt another to somehow better ourselves. If we all could live in a world governed by good manners, genuine trust and respect and true love for the world we live in, these pressing issues would be no issue at all. It is time we join together and honor those who's lives have been taken and work each day to better ourselves, so that we can all benefit from a better world in the future."


    14 members found this post helpful.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Feb. 12, 2012
    Location
    Ithaca
    Posts
    307

    Default

    I love this!
    Nothing better than an OTTB.... Just Plan Partners,Penny, you have stolen my heart<3

    http://secondchancethoroughbreds.org


    1 members found this post helpful.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jul. 21, 2006
    Location
    South Carolina
    Posts
    5,136

    Default

    OK well - I'll take my chances with a crazed lunatic armed with a lunge whip and a spur before I'll face one with a semi-automatic weapon.

    Don't see the analogy.

    If you misuse one, you screw up a horse. If you misuse the other - yeah, we all know what happens.

    I'm sure Mr. McLean has all good intentions, but really - good manners? Loving one another? Nice thoughts. I'm all for it. Let's see if those good wishes keep the next seriously disturbed maniac from laying waste to innocent lives. I'm not putting any money on it.

    It's time to talk seriously about preventing these tragedies.


    18 members found this post helpful.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Oct. 30, 2008
    Posts
    3,574

    Default

    I have a lot of respect for the Australian GM, but when I saw his post this afternoon, I just .
    Flip a coin. It's not what side lands that matters, but what side you were hoping for when the coin was still in the air.

    You call it boxed wine. I call it carboardeaux.



  5. #5
    Join Date
    Feb. 25, 2012
    Location
    Montana
    Posts
    3,294

    Default

    I LOVE this, AND we still need to get an understanding of WTF is going on with these people.



  6. #6
    Join Date
    Aug. 28, 2006
    Posts
    10,989

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by lilitiger2 View Post
    I LOVE this, AND we still need to get an understanding of WTF is going on with these people.
    Yeah and in the meantime better gun control would be nice.


    10 members found this post helpful.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Feb. 20, 2010
    Location
    All 'round Canadia
    Posts
    7,445

    Default

    I predict this will quickly lose its extremely thin veneer of HR-ness and move on into a OTT-like gun control/mental health thread.


    2 members found this post helpful.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Dec. 25, 2007
    Posts
    1,435

    Default

    If we do not wish to lose our freedom, we must learn to tolerate our
    neighbor's right to freedom even though he might express that freedom
    in a manner we consider to be eccentric.

    Protect your privacy. Replace Google with https://startpage.com/



  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jan. 2, 2006
    Location
    Dallas, NC
    Posts
    2,333

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by cssutton View Post
    If we do not wish to lose our freedom, we must learn to tolerate our
    neighbor's right to freedom even though he might express that freedom
    in a manner we consider to be eccentric.

    Protect your privacy. Replace Google with https://startpage.com/
    I don't understand? It's powered by Google, what makes it different?
    I want a signature but I have nothing original to say except: "STHU and RIDE!!!

    Wonderful COTHER's I've met: belleellis, stefffic, snkstacres and janedoe726.



  10. #10
    Join Date
    Apr. 26, 2000
    Posts
    3,240

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by grayarabpony View Post
    Yeah and in the meantime better gun control would be nice.
    Why can't I thumbs up this more?

    To keep this horse related: We've all known horses for whom there was nothing anyone could do that would make them safe citizens. The same is true for people. We most likely will NEVER understand what is going on with these people regardless of our technology or countless hours of interviews by docs.


    2 members found this post helpful.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Jun. 4, 2002
    Location
    Suffolk, VA
    Posts
    16,684

    Default

    Well said Bearcat!



  12. #12
    Join Date
    Aug. 25, 2007
    Posts
    10,586

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by cssutton View Post
    If we do not wish to lose our freedom, we must learn to tolerate our
    neighbor's right to freedom even though he might express that freedom
    in a manner we consider to be eccentric.

    Protect your privacy. Replace Google with https://startpage.com/
    Sadly this is a concept that has been dying for a very long time. We Americans do an abysmal job at dealing with rights in collision.

    I do carry a gun on occasion (and I don't generally discuss those occasions ) but two times are Cowboy Mounted Shooting and the Mounted Pistol class at the National Cavalry Competition. I've yet to shoot a person during either activity. To hear some tell it, my carrying of a firearm makes me a menace to the very safety of every man, woman, and child (particularly the child) in America.

    I heard a piece this a.m. on NPR by a gun control advocate who also is an advocate for fair regulations permitting individuals to carry firearms. He rejects the NRA's often "binary" stance on firearm control legislation. In reality I think I probably have some common ground with him. We might disagree on some important details (like the current mania to ban "assault weapons") but over time if he is, in fact, reasonable we could even come to agreement, there.

    He also noted that persons with CCW licenses commit crimes at not only a rate lower than the general populace, but even at a rate lower than police officers. This bit of fact seems to have eluded the "diligent research" at places like Barbara Boxer's office, the major media (ABC/NBC/CBS/NPR/etc.).

    Both sides of this debate are deeply committed to goals that are both unattainable and would have a host of negative, unintended consequences. It's time we reject "binary" solutions and look for stuff that works in the "real world."

    G.
    Mangalarga Marchador: Uma Raça, Uma Paixão


    5 members found this post helpful.

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Jun. 7, 2002
    Posts
    4,325

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by pAin't_Misbehavin' View Post
    OK well - I'll take my chances with a crazed lunatic armed with a lunge whip and a spur before I'll face one with a semi-automatic weapon.

    Don't see the analogy.
    .
    Neither do I.
    Nor do I see the analogy between guns and swimming pools (REALLY?!!!) cars, drugs etc.

    And I am sure this thread will be closed very soon.
    Ottbs - The finish line is only the beginning!



  14. #14
    Join Date
    Jun. 24, 2004
    Location
    South Park
    Posts
    3,607

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Daydream Believer View Post
    Well said Bearcat!
    I didn't say it, just shared a horseman's viewpoint (hence the quotation marks.)

    That said, I am quite puzzled by those saying they don't see the analogy...?
    "a·nal·o·gy (-nl-j)
    n. pl. a·nal·o·gies
    1.
    a. Similarity in some respects between things that are otherwise dissimilar.
    b. A comparison based on such similarity. "
    From the Free Dictionary

    Of course guns and whips are not the same thing. Guy's point was that both can cause harm in the wrong hands. Just like the rest of us, I am sure he is trying to make sense of the recent tragedy and is relating it to his daily life and what he is familiar with. He has a young daughter also so it probably hit close to home.

    Also, a 5 year old with a whip probably can't cause too much damage, whereas we have all unfortunately heard of small children picking up a loaded gun in their house and accidentally shooting their brother or visiting playmate...
    "When life gives you scurvy, make lemonade."


    2 members found this post helpful.

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Oct. 14, 2003
    Posts
    1,702

    Default

    Well said.

    Quote Originally Posted by Guilherme View Post
    Sadly this is a concept that has been dying for a very long time. We Americans do an abysmal job at dealing with rights in collision.

    I do carry a gun on occasion (and I don't generally discuss those occasions ) but two times are Cowboy Mounted Shooting and the Mounted Pistol class at the National Cavalry Competition. I've yet to shoot a person during either activity. To hear some tell it, my carrying of a firearm makes me a menace to the very safety of every man, woman, and child (particularly the child) in America.

    I heard a piece this a.m. on NPR by a gun control advocate who also is an advocate for fair regulations permitting individuals to carry firearms. He rejects the NRA's often "binary" stance on firearm control legislation. In reality I think I probably have some common ground with him. We might disagree on some important details (like the current mania to ban "assault weapons") but over time if he is, in fact, reasonable we could even come to agreement, there.

    He also noted that persons with CCW licenses commit crimes at not only a rate lower than the general populace, but even at a rate lower than police officers. This bit of fact seems to have eluded the "diligent research" at places like Barbara Boxer's office, the major media (ABC/NBC/CBS/NPR/etc.).

    Both sides of this debate are deeply committed to goals that are both unattainable and would have a host of negative, unintended consequences. It's time we reject "binary" solutions and look for stuff that works in the "real world."

    G.



  16. #16
    Join Date
    Dec. 28, 2009
    Location
    VA
    Posts
    2,209

    Default

    The common denominator in this are the people who have lost touch with reality having guns. But I do feel that if they were restricted from having guns, they would find another way to carry out their plan.

    Someone who is cruel with a whip and spurs will still find a way to be cruel to their horse is you remove those devices from them.

    I think the answer is to find a way to TRUELY help those that are having mental health problems. When you are dealing with adults this can be near impossible. And yes, I am speaking about a first hand experience that is very personal and painful.



  17. #17
    Join Date
    Jul. 19, 2007
    Location
    Michigan
    Posts
    11,222

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Finzean View Post
    Why can't I thumbs up this more?

    To keep this horse related: We've all known horses for whom there was nothing anyone could do that would make them safe citizens. The same is true for people. We most likely will NEVER understand what is going on with these people regardless of our technology or countless hours of interviews by docs.
    Well, with horses, there's an easy solution to that problem, one generally involving a gun if you don't want to waste money on a vet. The same solution works for irreparable people, too, but unfortunately for some reason we get all touchy about it when it's a human, no matter how much worse they are than a bad animal actor.

    It's not the tool, it's the operator. There's only one real solution for any creature that's dangerous and can't be changed. It's not to punish normal people.


    2 members found this post helpful.

  18. #18
    Join Date
    Jul. 21, 2006
    Location
    South Carolina
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    5,136

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    Quote Originally Posted by jawa View Post
    The common denominator in this are the people who have lost touch with reality having guns. But I do feel that if they were restricted from having guns, they would find another way to carry out their plan.
    Won't know for sure though until we try, will we? What if we just keep them from getting guns that deliver ammunition quickly enough to mow down crowds of people in mere minutes?

    I understand that guns don't kill people - people kill people. But people don't kill dozens of other people in seconds without the aid of some pretty serious firepower.

    Seems to me we could at least put those people to the trouble of having to buy it on the black market. Then maybe the next antisocial little homeschooled headcase can't manage to get ahold of Mama's Bushmaster. If he had to content himself with a revolver at least he'd only take out six people - or five if he saved the last round for himself.


    3 members found this post helpful.

  19. #19
    Join Date
    May. 12, 2000
    Location
    NE TN, USA
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    6,215

    Default

    Looks like Guy McLean hasn't been brainwashed by the media's feeding frenzy.
    “There are two ways to conquer and enslave a nation. One is by the sword. The other is by debt.”
    John Adams



  20. #20
    Join Date
    Aug. 25, 2007
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    10,586

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    Quote Originally Posted by pAin't_Misbehavin' View Post
    Won't know for sure though until we try, will we? What if we just keep them from getting guns that deliver ammunition quickly enough to mow down crowds of people in mere minutes?

    I understand that guns don't kill people - people kill people. But people don't kill dozens of other people in seconds without the aid of some pretty serious firepower.

    Seems to me we could at least put those people to the trouble of having to buy it on the black market. Then maybe the next antisocial little homeschooled headcase can't manage to get ahold of Mama's Bushmaster. If he had to content himself with a revolver at least he'd only take out six people - or five if he saved the last round for himself.
    OK, so give us your plan for the "try."

    G.
    Mangalarga Marchador: Uma Raça, Uma Paixão



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