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  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by cloudyandcallie View Post
    I told you guys on the old thread that eva hughes/micheleenflynn and lynnwood were not to be trusted.

    They can rationalize all they want to, but I still say they are NOT to be trusted and are NOT on the up and up.
    and you are a lawyer...who ever trusts one of them!


    I am thinking the point the OP tried to make was that the traumatized families might very well run into the nut cases of the RARAs.
    Considering that they try to be out in full force during Holidays, Possible, no?

    We do know the RARAs do not think anything of it to use children as pawns.
    They have demonstrated that nicely when they protested a store full of little girls.
    And one can really not tell where a child is from when they are sitting in the carriage.

    It seems to be actually a valid concern. And nice of these eveil horse abusers to be worried about how their customers might be treated.
    Or, in this case, as a human being having concerns for a fellow human being who has been through a lot, even if indirectly.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mozart View Post
    Personally, I think the moderate use of shock collars in training humans should be allowed.


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  2. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by cloudyandcallie View Post
    I told you guys on the old thread that eva hughes/micheleenflynn and lynnwood were not to be trusted.

    They can rationalize all they want to, but I still say they are NOT to be trusted and are NOT on the up and up.
    Thanks CC not sure how disagreeing with a few peoples misgivings makes someone not trust worthy but thanks for the giggle.

    Happy Holidays from FL ... now back to recounting those hanging chads.
    "I would not beleive her if her tongue came notorized"


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  3. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alagirl View Post

    I am thinking the point the OP tried to make was that the traumatized families might very well run into the nut cases of the RARAs.
    Considering that they try to be out in full force during Holidays, Possible, no?

    We do know the RARAs do not think anything of it to use children as pawns.
    They have demonstrated that nicely when they protested a store full of little girls.
    And one can really not tell where a child is from when they are sitting in the carriage.

    It seems to be actually a valid concern. And nice of these eveil horse abusers to be worried about how their customers might be treated.
    Or, in this case, as a human being having concerns for a fellow human being who has been through a lot, even if indirectly.
    No, it's not a valid concern...it's using a tragedy to garner sympathy. Just because the RARAs used it doesn't make it OK to play the same game.

    Whoever is giving you PR advice, sure screwed up!
    "We can judge the heart of a man by his treatment of animals." ~Immanuel Kant


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  4. #44
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    Lets just stop for a moment. FIRST Eva/Mflynn did not start this thread, 2nd it doesn't take a rocket scientist to filter out that those here excited to publicly admonish her are the same ole same ole that chime in on EVERYpost about carriage horses, HSUS, PETA and horse slaughter and act like mean little school girls.

    Lets see we've heard from CloudyandCallie, Jenm, and a little sprinkle of LauraKY . Now if Stolen Virtue shows up it will be a real party !
    Last edited by Lynnwood; Dec. 22, 2012 at 05:40 PM.
    "I would not beleive her if her tongue came notorized"


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  5. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lynnwood View Post
    Lets just stop for a moment. FIRST Eva/Mflynn did not start this thread, 2nd it doesn't take a rocket scientist to filter out that those here excited to publicly admonish her are the same ole same ole that chime in on EVER post about carriage horses, HSUS, PETA and horse slaughter and act like mean little school girls.

    Lets see we've heard from CloudyandCallie, Jenm, and a little sprinkle of LauraKY . Now if Stolen Virtue shows up it will be a real party !
    she'll be around soon, I am sure.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mozart View Post
    Personally, I think the moderate use of shock collars in training humans should be allowed.


    3 members found this post helpful.

  6. #46
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    I guess you all are forgetting that I tried to give you some good advice and was tracked down by your "evil nemesis" in the RARAs.

    I don't choose sides, I call them as I see them.

    Take a look at my postings...I have nothing good to say about HSUS, PETA or any of the others and I'm most definitely not against horse slaughter. Nice try though.
    "We can judge the heart of a man by his treatment of animals." ~Immanuel Kant


    3 members found this post helpful.

  7. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by LauraKY View Post
    I guess you all are forgetting that I tried to give you some good advice and was tracked down by your "evil nemesis" in the RARAs.

    I don't choose sides, I call them as I see them.

    Take a look at my postings...I have nothing good to say about HSUS, PETA or any of the others and I'm most definitely not against horse slaughter. Nice try though.
    tracked down?
    oooooooooooooooooooooohhhh
    Quote Originally Posted by Mozart View Post
    Personally, I think the moderate use of shock collars in training humans should be allowed.


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  8. #48
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    So Laura what part of the fact that E.Forel et all are so insane that they tracked down a complete stranger on a random horse forum just to harass you that leads you to believe that the people that live and work with those folks each and everyday don't deserve the benefit of the doubt when they are concerned about a potential egregious act. Lets not forget the anti's were out protesting the day of the tragedy and openly calling out to at least one set of parents that by taking a carriage ride they were in fact raising a "monster" like Lanza.

    Again read her page she openly posted it gloating at her "come back"
    "I would not beleive her if her tongue came notorized"


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  9. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lynnwood View Post
    So Laura what part of the fact that E.Forel et all are so insane that they tracked down a complete stranger on a random horse forum just to harass you that leads you to believe that the people that live and work with those folks each and everyday don't deserve the benefit of the doubt when they are concerned about a potential egregious act. Lets not forget the anti's were out protesting the day of the tragedy and openly calling out to at least one set of parents that by taking a carriage ride they were in fact raising a "monster" like Lanza.

    Again read her page she openly posted it gloating at her "come back"
    I would love to think you are kidding, but considering that the lovely 'church' from nowhere out west had proclaimed they go protest the funerals....you have to wonder about the status of mankind....
    Quote Originally Posted by Mozart View Post
    Personally, I think the moderate use of shock collars in training humans should be allowed.


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  10. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lynnwood View Post
    So Laura what part of the fact that E.Forel et all are so insane that they tracked down a complete stranger on a random horse forum just to harass you that leads you to believe that the people that live and work with those folks each and everyday don't deserve the benefit of the doubt when they are concerned about a potential egregious act. Lets not forget the anti's were out protesting the day of the tragedy and openly calling out to at least one set of parents that by taking a carriage ride they were in fact raising a "monster" like Lanza.

    Again read her page she openly posted it gloating at her "come back"
    She's truly crazy. And I understand that she's underhanded and crooked and that her whole agenda is based on lies.

    That. Doesn't. Matter. The whole premise of this thread is just completely wrong headed, and if you can't see it and continue to justify using the tragedy in Newtown to garner sympathy for the carriage drivers and you feel it necessary to stoop to E. Forel's level...well then, you deserve whatever negative reaction you get. For Pete's sake, just say you were wrong...
    "We can judge the heart of a man by his treatment of animals." ~Immanuel Kant


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  11. #51
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    Laura I did not post the thread I did not write the "note", I do however know both people well enough to know the intent of the persons that did.

    Since you don't know them personally why is it so hard to swallow that it was not as you are perceiving it?

    There is no negative reaction that "I am getting" If you are reffering to C&C she said I shouldn't be trusted because of my signature. She's right you should never trust anyone with a sense of humor....damn funny people sneaky bastards LOL
    "I would not beleive her if her tongue came notorized"


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  12. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by LauraKY View Post
    She's truly crazy. And I understand that she's underhanded and crooked and that her whole agenda is based on lies.

    That. Doesn't. Matter. The whole premise of this thread is just completely wrong headed, and if you can't see it and continue to justify using the tragedy in Newtown to garner sympathy for the carriage drivers and you feel it necessary to stoop to E. Forel's level...well then, you deserve whatever negative reaction you get. For Pete's sake, just say you were wrong...
    The problem is that it is only your speculation that this was posted to 'garner sympathy for the carriage drivers'. Since I was the one who originally posted it, only I know what my true intentions were, and I can assure you that your speculation on the reason I shared it on FB is wrong.

    In addition to not being inclined to doing dishonorable things, I don't need to search for or create scenarios to showcase or relay what goes on in our industry with the RARAs - the truth is troubling enough, and they give us more examples every week.

    The VERY last thing I would do on this planet would be to exploit the mind-bending horror of murdered children. Last night I was actually crying thinking that anyone would think that of me - then I was reminded by a dear friend that my accusers are people who don't know me. So all is well.
    VP Horse & Carriage Association of NYC

    https://www.facebook.com/pages/The-F...ref=ts&fref=ts


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  13. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alagirl View Post
    I would love to think you are kidding, but considering that the lovely 'church' from nowhere out west had proclaimed they go protest the funerals....you have to wonder about the status of mankind....
    Nope, not kidding at all. NYCLASS had about 15 operatives out there the day after the shooting in Connecticut. On Wednesday, Forel's group was out there, and when her minions were yelling at people in the carriages, several carriage drivers told them they should be ashamed of themselves, to be screaming in the streets about horses when the whole country was in mourning over the Connecticut children. E. Forel was proud to post her response on her wall:

    No Walk in the Park
    Wednesday
    There are tourists - many of whom take our literature and would never take an exploitative carriage ride ... and there are the tourists from hell who will take a carriage ride, ignoring the empty garbage filled water trough - and, of course, ignoring the horse. They just want to say that they rode in a carriage in Central Park. Last week one actually tried to liken what we were doing to the tragic shooting in Connecticut. We were having none of that. I came back with "it's parents like you who raise kids to do such horrific acts." Enough said.
    VP Horse & Carriage Association of NYC

    https://www.facebook.com/pages/The-F...ref=ts&fref=ts



  14. #54
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    @michaleenflynn, please don't cry. You made a very personal connection between your cause and a greater national tragedy. Keep it personal and motivate yourself--great. But it was posted on a large forum, and it's a reasonable interpretation that it was posted to rally troops. Best of intentions, there is no question. How about assuming the best of intentions in those who see the rally around Newtown message and say No way, leave those people out of your fight (even if you suspect your enemies might use them).
    I saw this no differently than if the RARA's came here and posted "Newtown kids might be in NYC this weekend for a respite and they might see abused horses or a carriage wreck. Haven't the Newtown families been through enough?! Ban carriages!!" You are not a bad person but you are not above reproach, none of us is. (as evidenced by your friends deciding that I am a "supreme f**king nasty b**tch..." ). You lasso'd an incredibly sensitive, raw issue and it touched some nerves that you didn't intend. You didn't mean evil, I didn't mean evil, move on.


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  15. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by michaleenflynn View Post
    The problem is that it is only your speculation that this was posted to 'garner sympathy for the carriage drivers'. Since I was the one who originally posted it, only I know what my true intentions were, and I can assure you that your speculation on the reason I shared it on FB is wrong.

    In addition to not being inclined to doing dishonorable things, I don't need to search for or create scenarios to showcase or relay what goes on in our industry with the RARAs - the truth is troubling enough, and they give us more examples every week.

    The VERY last thing I would do on this planet would be to exploit the mind-bending horror of murdered children. Last night I was actually crying thinking that anyone would think that of me - then I was reminded by a dear friend that my accusers are people who don't know me. So all is well.
    It really doesn't matter what your intent was, it matters how it's perceived by those who read what you posted. I'm trying to tell you that I (and clearly some others) perceive that you are attempting to use the Newtown tragedy to garner sympathy.
    "We can judge the heart of a man by his treatment of animals." ~Immanuel Kant


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  16. #56
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    One word of advice, never get in a battle of words with the enemy, as all they want is a floor to push their agenda and you are giving them that.

    Have your say, don't respond directly to anything, stay on the high ground, repeat as necessary, don't let them bait you, keep having your say.


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  17. #57
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    Look, the "You all don't know what my intentions were" isn't a helpful defense. It's true (always and for everyone) and so what?

    Same with the "hey, I didn't do editing" by choosing a video of crying kids and yelling RARAs that's 4 years old move.

    The point is that your definition of editing and way of expressing good intentions work better if they aren't idiosyncratic and defended as such.

    Also, crying kids with carriages from 4 years ago is below-the-belt with respect to your opponents. What if they had in fact taken a moratorium on messing with kids in honor of the Newtown tragedy? As it happens, they did not. That was exploitative on their end, IMO. So if you want to make the point, post the (really offensive) FB remarks about parents accused of raising the next elementary school shooter. That's enough and it's also true.
    The armchair saddler
    Politically Pro-Cat


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  18. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lynnwood View Post
    Lets just stop for a moment. FIRST Eva/Mflynn did not start this thread, 2nd it doesn't take a rocket scientist to filter out that those here excited to publicly admonish her are the same ole same ole that chime in on EVERYpost about carriage horses, HSUS, PETA and horse slaughter and act like mean little school girls.

    Lets see we've heard from CloudyandCallie, Jenm, and a little sprinkle of LauraKY . Now if Stolen Virtue shows up it will be a real party !
    Since when does pointing out a lie make someone a "mean little school girl"?

    For the record, I do not post on every thread about carriage horses, HSUS, PETA and horse slaughter (maybe horse slaughter because it's no secret where I stand). I will continue to stand by my statement that using a horrific tragedy to point out a "what if" or "this might happen" is in poor taste no matter how one feels about the topic.

    The fact you are publicly defending this, shows your true character.
    Proud owner of a Slaughter-Bound TB from a feedlot, and her surprise baby...!
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  19. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by jenm View Post
    Since when does pointing out a lie make someone a "mean little school girl"?

    For the record, I do not post on every thread about carriage horses, HSUS, PETA and horse slaughter (maybe horse slaughter because it's no secret where I stand). I will continue to stand by my statement that using a horrific tragedy to point out a "what if" or "this might happen" is in poor taste no matter how one feels about the topic.

    The fact you are publicly defending this, shows your true character.
    Trading insults never looks good, for any side.



  20. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by michaleenflynn View Post
    I am completely and utterly BAFFLED at this entire response.

    First of all, what does it matter how old the video is? Several people have mentioned it - this goes on ROUTINELY, has since 2006. I could have chosen any number of videos, there are tons of them - THIS one happened to have a passenger stating that they made her daughter cry, so I thought it was the one to post. As for the editing, do you think you ripped the covers off of something? Anybody can see it was edited with graphics, so what? That is the only copy of that TV report that exists, so I used it. How does the editing or the date make it any less germane?

    I am trying hard to control myself addressing this next part - "USING" a family of what might happen?? I'll tell you something -- I listened to my husband tell me the story with a growing cramp in my gut, SICK at the thought that what happens EVERY weekend to families would happen to a Newtown family. THAT is why I wrote the post which was shared here. I am at the end of my ROPE with these people when it comes to the abuse they heap on innocent families, is it possible for you to understand that? We don't give a rat's ass what they say to us anymore - but you have NO IDEA what it is like not to be able to protect the families in our carriages.

    As to the title of the thread, if you knew the poster who posted it, you'd KNOW that no deceptiveness was intended.
    I'm sorry for that fact you are unable to comprehend my point. What you fail to acknowledge are two things:

    1. The OP referenced an old video and said it was from a news broadcast. True, footage from a four year old news broadcast was used, but it was not raw footage, it was footage embedded in a piece of pro-carriage propoganda. Why does this matter? Because the rant from FB makes it seem like this is exactly what will happen to every family from Newtown that may come to New York.

    2. I'm not sure how many times this has to be pointed out, but using the Newtown tragedy as a way to out the evil carriage protestors is in extremely poor taste. You need to acknowledge this, apologize and move on.

    The fact you are baffled by my response is scary.

    If you did not mean to be deceptive, you should have pointed that out in your note. The fact you didn't shows your intent was to make people believe it did indeed happen. Shameless.
    Proud owner of a Slaughter-Bound TB from a feedlot, and her surprise baby...!
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