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  1. #21
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    The Forel person is the one who works for the housing department, right?? What did anyone find out about her protesting and about her job??

    I still think there should be concealed cameras and then upload, upload, upload. (I guess that would be legal, don't know)
    GR24's Musing #19 - Save the tatas!!


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  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by jenm View Post
    Regardless of how one feels about the NYC carriage industry the "note" from Eva Hughes (whoever she is) is just in bad taste. The video cited is indeed four years old, not something that was recently taken and there is NOTHING linking that behavior to any family from Newtown. As a matter of fact, her note doesn't say it happened, it says "there is a good chance" it will happen.

    How is this not propoganda by the pro-carriage folks? Using a family from Newtown as an example of what might happen is in bad taste. The video posted on youtube was put together by pro-carriage people, it's not raw footage from the news:

    Video editing and commentary originally done by StopLiesSeeTruth. See SLST's videos on YouTube here: http://www.youtube.com/stopliesseetruth

    The title of the thread and the context of the alledged note, make it seem like it did happen to a real family trying to escape the Newtown nightmare and that is just wrong.
    I am completely and utterly BAFFLED at this entire response.

    First of all, what does it matter how old the video is? Several people have mentioned it - this goes on ROUTINELY, has since 2006. I could have chosen any number of videos, there are tons of them - THIS one happened to have a passenger stating that they made her daughter cry, so I thought it was the one to post. As for the editing, do you think you ripped the covers off of something? Anybody can see it was edited with graphics, so what? That is the only copy of that TV report that exists, so I used it. How does the editing or the date make it any less germane?

    I am trying hard to control myself addressing this next part - "USING" a family of what might happen?? I'll tell you something -- I listened to my husband tell me the story with a growing cramp in my gut, SICK at the thought that what happens EVERY weekend to families would happen to a Newtown family. THAT is why I wrote the post which was shared here. I am at the end of my ROPE with these people when it comes to the abuse they heap on innocent families, is it possible for you to understand that? We don't give a rat's ass what they say to us anymore - but you have NO IDEA what it is like not to be able to protect the families in our carriages.

    As to the title of the thread, if you knew the poster who posted it, you'd KNOW that no deceptiveness was intended.
    VP Horse & Carriage Association of NYC

    https://www.facebook.com/pages/The-F...ref=ts&fref=ts


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  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alagirl View Post
    as sympathetic to their blight as I am, until the protesters do their usual shtick, this is not OK.

    Yes. people from CT/Newtown might come to NYC. or not

    But using a 4 year old video...come on, people.
    PLEASE someone explain to me what the age of the video has to do with anything?? I REALLY want to understand.
    VP Horse & Carriage Association of NYC

    https://www.facebook.com/pages/The-F...ref=ts&fref=ts


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  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coanteen View Post
    Why not use those real examples of kids getting upset? Because "Newtown" draws attention right now, for a horrid reason not at all related to horses and carriages and NYC.

    It is disgusting to use the attention generated by mass murder of children in your own unrelated cause.
    You have some damned nerve. Your post says WAY more about how YOU think than about how **I** think.

    Because you're a cynic and think in those terms doesn't mean I do. And I don't.
    VP Horse & Carriage Association of NYC

    https://www.facebook.com/pages/The-F...ref=ts&fref=ts


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  5. #25
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    Lets shift this a bit , I was going to make a post about this incident seperatly but since it was RECENT I will use it to glorify a point

    A little set up , Driver looses the rubber off the rim of her carriage wheel, the street she is on requires that she loop around the block to "go back" to retrieve the rubber rim.

    For god only knows what reason this man jumps out and grabs her reins and literally holds her hostage until the police arrive stating hes saving the horse. Conveniently our dear aforementioned friend Roxanne happens to be right there video'ing .

    AS horse men and women notice how many times he yanks the horses reins and almost causes accidents . Oh and when the police arrive they don't allow her to press charges. Now ask yourself if this was a person in a car or on a bike and you took control of their vehicle ...how would you look in stripes ?

    This is the behavior that goes on day in and day out .. without police support. How would you handle it ? How would you handle it when your fares ARE children and the protesters are calling them and their parents degenerates and that by taking a carriage ride they are raising murderers
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ciCLbsxkXQ


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3KsI1OYv5QI
    "I would not beleive her if her tongue came notorized"


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  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by michaleenflynn View Post
    You have some damned nerve. Your post says WAY more about how YOU think than about how **I** think.

    Because you're a cynic and think in those terms doesn't mean I do. And I don't.
    You're quite right, it does say what I think.

    I think that using the Newtown tragedy in this manner is exploitative and disgusting.

    You say the drivers experience this daily, and there are many videos, and many stories of actual families being actually harassed, in actual fact? Then why not concentrate on those real stories that really happened, instead on a what-if scenario that just oh so conveniently exploits a horrible mass murder? Is it that the thought of non-Newtown children being harassed simply doesn't give you that "cramp in your gut"?


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  7. #27
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    The reason they can't get a restraining order is likely the same reason the courts ruled that, jackwagons they might be, the Westboro Baptist Church can't be kept away from funerals. Unless they're trespassing on private property they can't be prevented from speaking. Now, they CAN be prevented from touching what's not theirs and anyone whose horse, carriage, person, or passengers gets a hand placed on them ought to scream assault. But they do have the right to stand on the street yelling whatever they want as long as they're not a danger to others.


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  8. #28
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    I shared the story of the family my husband took for a ride on FB, and several FB friends said, "You really should put this on COTH."

    NEVER in a MILLION years did I EVER think I would get some of the replies that I have gotten here.

    Maybe some of you live in tabloid land in your minds, sleuthing motives and spinning your own suspicions into elaborate projections of how others operate, but I don't. I have enough REAL ugly drama in my life with these RARAs that I don't need to go making stuff up.

    To call me 'disgusting' and suggest I am doing this as 'propaganda' is beyond the pale - I have never given anyone here reason to think such a thing.

    To say I am insulted is really besides the point, because it really isn't about feeling insulted; this is abject frustration -- frustration at being misunderstood, unfairly characterized, second-guessed, impugned, and most of all, MOST OF ALL, knowing what is coming for innocent families again this weekend, as has every weekend for the last 6 years. That there is a VERY good chance that it will happen to a Newtown family is nothing less than an evil disgrace.

    To those who offered support and input, thank you. To the others - whatever.
    Last edited by michaleenflynn; Dec. 22, 2012 at 12:09 PM.
    VP Horse & Carriage Association of NYC

    https://www.facebook.com/pages/The-F...ref=ts&fref=ts


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  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by michaleenflynn View Post
    PLEASE someone explain to me what the age of the video has to do with anything?? I REALLY want to understand.
    The Newtown connection.

    Yes.
    These jerks use little kids to make their point.They suck.

    But:
    If no Newtown family was molested by these jerks, what can you do!


    I do understand.
    I promise, I do.

    But in connection with this fresh, raw tragedy, you just can't pull out a four year old video.

    (I am a bit tired right now, so I am afraid my point is not quiet clear, and you know I am in your corner. And heaven knows, if they really do violate the serenity of Newtown people, I hoe somebody horsewhips them!)
    Quote Originally Posted by Mozart View Post
    Personally, I think the moderate use of shock collars in training humans should be allowed.


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  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by michaleenflynn View Post
    I shared the story of the family my husband took for a ride on FB, and several FB friends said, "You really should put this on COTH."

    NEVER in a MILLION years did I EVER think I would get some of the replies that I have gotten here.

    Maybe some of you live in tabloid land in your minds, sleuthing motives and spinning your own suspicions into elaborate projections of how others operate, but I don't. I have enough REAL ugly drama in my life with these RARAs that I don't need to go making stuff up.

    To call me 'disgusting' and suggest I am doing this as 'propaganda' is beyond the pale - I have never given anyone here reason to think such a thing.

    To say I am insulted is really besides the point, because it really isn't about feeling insulted; the tears streaming down my face right now are from abject frustration -- frustration at being misunderstood, unfairly characterized, second-guessed, impugned, and most of all, MOST OF ALL, knowing what is coming for innocent families again this weekend, as has every weekend for the last 6 years. That there is a VERY good chance that it will happen to a Newtown family is nothing less than an evil disgrace.

    To those who offered support and input, thank you. To the others - whatever.
    Chica, your inbox is full!
    Quote Originally Posted by Mozart View Post
    Personally, I think the moderate use of shock collars in training humans should be allowed.



  11. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alagirl View Post
    Chica, your inbox is full!
    Thanx, cleared a few out...
    VP Horse & Carriage Association of NYC

    https://www.facebook.com/pages/The-F...ref=ts&fref=ts



  12. #32
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    Here is the way I see it...
    NYC carriage drivers deal daily with this RARA craziness.
    Families in Newtown are dealing with a horrible unfathomable other kind of craziness... the nation looks on with horror, grief, sympathy.

    The two issues exist in their own circles... and don't overlap.

    Until...

    Husband of Michaleenflynn meets family who is on a getaway from the Newtown circle of press and tragedy... learns other Newtown families might also be planning to do the same thing- and puts two and two together that the two unconneced circles might overlap after all. This connection is shocking when you put it together that Newtown families are not just distant figures on the news, but could actually be your customers. Because the NYC drivers know first hand how awful the RARAs are, they want to protect *everyone* from that sort of abuse- but are especially hurt/horrified/affronted to think that an already traumatised family who was there specifically for escape and to try to recapture a little joy, sweetness and normal, could be brought down by RARA crazy.


    13 members found this post helpful.

  13. #33
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    Don't think that there is anything wrong with the driver cautioning the families in advance of what might occur--after all, there are wierd people everywhere. Tossing in a freebie to any of the Newtown people might go a long way.

    Document the protests. File 5 million complaints even if they go nowhere. Any person that impedes normal doing business gets a complaint filed. If there are any particularly nasty encounters, multiple letters to the editor of the newspapers. Etc., etc. Sympathetic to the cause, but realize that everyone can make mistakes, even the carriage drivers.


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  14. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Plainandtall View Post
    Here is the way I see it...
    NYC carriage drivers deal daily with this RARA craziness.
    Families in Newtown are dealing with a horrible unfathomable other kind of craziness... the nation looks on with horror, grief, sympathy.

    The two issues exist in their own circles... and don't overlap.

    Until...

    Husband of Michaleenflynn meets family who is on a getaway from the Newtown circle of press and tragedy... learns other Newtown families might also be planning to do the same thing- and puts two and two together that the two unconneced circles might overlap after all. This connection is shocking when you put it together that Newtown families are not just distant figures on the news, but could actually be your customers. Because the NYC drivers know first hand how awful the RARAs are, they want to protect *everyone* from that sort of abuse- but are especially hurt/horrified/affronted to think that an already traumatised family who was there specifically for escape and to try to recapture a little joy, sweetness and normal, could be brought down by RARA crazy.

    Perfectly said.
    "I would not beleive her if her tongue came notorized"


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  15. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Plainandtall View Post
    Here is the way I see it...
    NYC carriage drivers deal daily with this RARA craziness.
    Families in Newtown are dealing with a horrible unfathomable other kind of craziness... the nation looks on with horror, grief, sympathy.

    The two issues exist in their own circles... and don't overlap.

    Until...

    Husband of Michaleenflynn meets family who is on a getaway from the Newtown circle of press and tragedy... learns other Newtown families might also be planning to do the same thing- and puts two and two together that the two unconneced circles might overlap after all. This connection is shocking when you put it together that Newtown families are not just distant figures on the news, but could actually be your customers. Because the NYC drivers know first hand how awful the RARAs are, they want to protect *everyone* from that sort of abuse- but are especially hurt/horrified/affronted to think that an already traumatised family who was there specifically for escape and to try to recapture a little joy, sweetness and normal, could be brought down by RARA crazy.
    Exactly this - and for the record, *I* put this thread up for exactly the reason stated by Plainandtall - this video shows what happens on the hackline regularly. I have seen it for myself and as someone else pointed out, this video is mild in comparison to what I have seen with my own eyes. And as someone else posted, the RARAs have, since Newton, told parents taking their children on a carriage ride that they are raising the type of monster that killed all those people. So, yes, there most certainly is a connection and it should be a concern to all of us that the RARAs will use the tragedy in their protests and there mostly likely will be people from Newton that have to witness it.

    To those of you that cannot see the connection - there really is nothing left to say.
    Most people don't need a $35,000 horse. They need a $1,000 horse and $34,000 in lessons.

    "I don't have to be fair… . I'm an American With a Strong, Fact-Free Opinion." (stolen off Facebook)


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  16. #36
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    K, guys.

    I think we had a bit of a communications gap there.
    The OP was a bit confusing.

    I think most of us understand what's at stake for the carriage people, all of us ache for the Newtown people.
    And I think we all hoe and pray that the families who do try to enjoy a quiet ride through the park will be granted the serenity!

    After all, the outside of a horse is good for the inside of man, woman and child.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mozart View Post
    Personally, I think the moderate use of shock collars in training humans should be allowed.


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  17. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by michaleenflynn View Post
    You have some damned nerve. Your post says WAY more about how YOU think than about how **I** think.

    Because you're a cynic and think in those terms doesn't mean I do. And I don't.
    I think using the Newtown kid was despicable. You used it because you knew it would draw attention and sympathy. Well, it backfired. Big time.
    "We can judge the heart of a man by his treatment of animals." ~Immanuel Kant


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  18. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coanteen View Post
    You're quite right, it does say what I think.

    I think that using the Newtown tragedy in this manner is exploitative and disgusting.

    You say the drivers experience this daily, and there are many videos, and many stories of actual families being actually harassed, in actual fact? Then why not concentrate on those real stories that really happened, instead on a what-if scenario that just oh so conveniently exploits a horrible mass murder? Is it that the thought of non-Newtown children being harassed simply doesn't give you that "cramp in your gut"?
    Public thumbs up.
    "We can judge the heart of a man by his treatment of animals." ~Immanuel Kant


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  19. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by michaleenflynn View Post
    I am completely and utterly BAFFLED at this entire response.

    First of all, what does it matter how old the video is? Several people have mentioned it - this goes on ROUTINELY, has since 2006. I could have chosen any number of videos, there are tons of them - THIS one happened to have a passenger stating that they made her daughter cry, so I thought it was the one to post. As for the editing, do you think you ripped the covers off of something? Anybody can see it was edited with graphics, so what? That is the only copy of that TV report that exists, so I used it. How does the editing or the date make it any less germane?

    I am trying hard to control myself addressing this next part - "USING" a family of what might happen?? I'll tell you something -- I listened to my husband tell me the story with a growing cramp in my gut, SICK at the thought that what happens EVERY weekend to families would happen to a Newtown family. THAT is why I wrote the post which was shared here. I am at the end of my ROPE with these people when it comes to the abuse they heap on innocent families, is it possible for you to understand that? We don't give a rat's ass what they say to us anymore - but you have NO IDEA what it is like not to be able to protect the families in our carriages.

    As to the title of the thread, if you knew the poster who posted it, you'd KNOW that no deceptiveness was intended.
    So.... you decided to find some old footage with a parent saying something about kids crying after the Newtown thing.... you make the connection and don't want to call that manipulative of viewer sentiment?

    Ferchissakes, kids have been made to cry by lots of adult crap before the Newtown thing and they will be again afterwards. But that served your purposes now, so you went for it.

    Your cause is a good one, but this seems like stooping lower than you need to.
    Last edited by mvp; Dec. 22, 2012 at 04:07 PM.
    The armchair saddler
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  20. #40
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    I told you guys on the old thread that eva hughes/micheleenflynn and lynnwood were not to be trusted.

    They can rationalize all they want to, but I still say they are NOT to be trusted and are NOT on the up and up.


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