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  1. #1
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    Default 2013 Winter Training List

    Congrats to Sinead for being the only global talent on the list. She deserved to be on the Olympic squad so this is a better late than never way to say "oops we goofed".

    However, I have to say that I really think Allison Springer and Arthur deserve to be in that category too-she and Arthur finished 3rd in the HSBC Classic series last year, second at Rolex and top 10 at Burghley. I firmly believe they're capable of winning a four star. Given that there is a higher classification, it's a little bit disappointing to see them in the category with combinations who have no significant top level success in international competition.
    Last edited by NCRider; Dec. 21, 2012 at 11:42 AM. Reason: Fixed Year


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  2. #2
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    2013! Perhaps the Mayan Apocalypse has stalled your brain?

    (off to look at list...)



  3. #3
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    A little strange to see Neville Bardos on the National list, which says he has 'future potential to be competitive anywhere in the world'.

    Neville has had multiple top-ten placings at CCI****, including 10th at WEG and 7th at Burghley. (He's the horse Boyd should have ridden in London.) Future potential, indeed.



  4. #4
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    sad to see some names missing - Mr Mendicott, Otis, Twizzle come to mind. nice to see such a variety of names though!



  5. #5
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    http://eventingnation.com/home/usef-...st-is-out.html

    I wonder if you are allowed to audit the training sessions? probably not... but if So I would be making a trip to Galway Down in March!
    Eventers of the West
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  6. #6
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    Also, still no Colleen Rutledge.


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  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bastile View Post
    sad to see some names missing - Mr Mendicott, Otis, Twizzle come to mind. nice to see such a variety of names though!
    I noticed this as well. And why isn't Mystery Whisper listed?



  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by acking01 View Post
    I noticed this as well. And why isn't Mystery Whisper listed?
    Mystery Whisper is no longer being competed by Philip, so I'm not surprised not to see him on the list...

    I'd guess Mr. Medicott is not on the list because Karen will be out of comission for a while with her back...
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  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by tarheelmd07 View Post
    Mystery Whisper is no longer being competed by Philip, so I'm not surprised not to see him on the list...

    I'd guess Mr. Medicott is not on the list because Karen will be out of comission for a while with her back...
    I would assume that Mr. Medicott wouldn't have been on the list even if Karen hadn't hurt her back because during the selection process for the new coach, the O'Connors said that Karen would retire from International competition if DOC were selected. Since DOC was selected, I assume they'll be keeping their word-hence no Mr. Medicott.

    As for Mystery Whisper, wasn't the plan always that PD would only ride him through London?

    Surprised not to see Colleen on the National list with her young horse. He's very nice.



  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bastile View Post
    sad to see some names missing - Mr Mendicott, Otis, Twizzle come to mind. nice to see such a variety of names though!
    I am betting Mr. Medicott and Otis are left off the list due to Karen's injury and Otis's injury. They would not probably be ready for the winter training. From what I understood this is just the list for these upcoming sessions. They will re-evaluate after the spring, like how Allison was not on the winter training list last year but obviously made it on to the list for the Olympics.

    *update* did not read the whole thread before posting this so sorry for redundancy!



  11. #11
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    It's ridiculous and getting really old that Colleen is repeatedly left off these lists.

    Happy for Michael Pollard though. I really admire him, especially his attitude in the face of all the tragedy he's faced in the past year.
    "Last time I picked your feet, you broke my toe!"


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  12. #12
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    Why would Colleen be on the list? She does not fit any of the criteria? yes she is competing at and completing at 4* but is not anywhere near the top 10?

    I understand she is a crowd favourite and I admire her grit and determination to get out there and do it but on Shiraz she is nowhere near good enough for teams. Also how old is Shiraz now? 14? He has not seen a significant improvement in results and actually I felt at Pau they should have had a really decent shot at a top 10 place even after a distinctly poor dressage as the xc was so hard but they got a heap of time and then a very average Sjing round the next day.

    I believe Shiraz is giving her unrivalled experience but he will not be the horse that gets her a pink coat.
    The only place where success comes before work is in the dictionary.


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  13. #13
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    Why would Colleen be on the list? She does not fit any of the criteria? yes she is competing at and completing at 4* but is not anywhere near the top 10?

    I understand she is a crowd favourite and I admire her grit and determination to get out there and do it but on Shiraz she is nowhere near good enough for teams. Also how old is Shiraz now? 14? He has not seen a significant improvement in results and actually I felt at Pau they should have had a really decent shot at a top 10 place even after a distinctly poor dressage as the xc was so hard but they got a heap of time and then a very average Sjing round the next day.

    I believe Shiraz is giving her unrivalled experience but he will not be the horse that gets her a pink coat.
    The only place where success comes before work is in the dictionary.



  14. #14
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    Though I like Colleen and Luke, dont get me wrong, I have to agree a bit with Mugsgame. He is not competitive enough to be on the team. His dressage is not there to win, sorry to say. Though I do like her up and coming horse and hope that they will make the list in the future.
    I am on my phone 90% of the time. Please ignore typos, misplaced lower case letters, and the random word butchered by autocowreck.



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  15. #15
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    Completely agree with mugsgame. I have talked to other top riders, some listed for the first time on this round, that often have a forgiving 4* horse for the experience of going 4*. They realistically know this 4* horse isn't the one that will get them onto teams, but they now have the knowledge and experience to properly bring along the fancy young horse left back at the barn.


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  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by mugsgame View Post
    yes she is competing at and completing at 4* but is not anywhere near the top 10?

    I believe Shiraz is giving her unrivalled experience but he will not be the horse that gets her a pink coat.
    There are horses on the list that have not yet gone clean or consistently completed at CCI****. One of these is on the 'World' list, which is interesting because if you can't go clear or complete on XC, you cannot be competitive at all. But the USEF sees future potential in them, and feels the combination can become competitive with top-level training. That is what this list is for.

    I don't think this is about a 'pink' coat. It's a training list. It means the USEF gives these riders/horses training towards making them more competitive.

    But if we're talking about teams, every team needs a horse that will get around any CCI****, anywhere in the world, anytime, dressage be damned. This is Over to You, this is Opposition Buzz. Neither of those horses were dressage winners, especially not before they got into team training. Team GB has benefited for many years from their inclusion, particularly in their respective roles as pathfinder.


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  17. #17
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    Though I appreciate its about getting training, from what I understand team training is more about adding polish. Sinead's rapid improvement in dressage did not come from US team training it came from what she did at home?

    I also appreciate team GB has had huge success using pathfinder horses but these always go clear inside the time and jump good sjing rounds on the whole. Opp Buzz and Over to You mostly scored in the low 50s which is not enough for individual glory (though Over to You did win a silver at WEG) but with a DC is good enough to be a solid team performance if required.

    As for the jumping clear XC - I guess if the horse is young and still showing improvement then you look to see if its a regular occurrence or a one off. Imperial Cavalier has had serious blips in his career and when it counted (fall at euros), so has Miners Frolic (WEG and Badminton) but they are still used because when its good its good. DHI Topper had a very naughty 20 this year at a CIC3* but was still going to the Olympics if he had not gone lame. It appears team GB often bank on the riders over the horses!
    The only place where success comes before work is in the dictionary.



  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by JER View Post
    A little strange to see Neville Bardos on the National list, which says he has 'future potential to be competitive anywhere in the world'.

    Neville has had multiple top-ten placings at CCI****, including 10th at WEG and 7th at Burghley. (He's the horse Boyd should have ridden in London.) Future potential, indeed.
    I thought it was odd to see a horse that competed at the Olympics on the National list, as well as seeing Neville there. So now that RM has been to the Olympics he's only considered a nationally ranked horse? It seems to almost support the conspiracy theory that he was only on the team because he was already there.

    I agree with those who question Allison not being considered a world talent as well. I know that they had been inconsistent, but I feel like Allison really has turned the corner with Arthur and had some strong finishes this year. How long do people have to live with the mistakes of their past?

    I also have to ask why the heck is MLM on any list? Between unsound horses and having to put stewards on watch for her Dr. Feelgood at major events, I can't see her potential to be anything other an embarrassment to the sport. An embarrassment that US Eventing doesn't need at this point.

    And while I'm hanging my arse out, making controversial statements, I also have to wonder about putting R Star on these lists as well. I love the mare and I think Kristi seems like an excellent rider, but let's face it, the mare has had some pretty major falls and I worry about their safety. It's not for lack of skill, but I feel they have been lucky with falls and I worry that their luck may run out eventually.

    As for not putting Colleen on the list, I understand what musgame is saying, but these lists are for training sessions. Why not ask Colleen and Shiraz to show up at some of the dressage lessons and see if one of the team coaches can unlock the secret for them? If it seems like a lost cause, then don't invite them back. The horse is crazy talented and it seems like they just need that one puzzle piece to lock into place and they will be on fire.
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  19. #19
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    Lists are just someone's fantasy game, I think. Or a way for the coach to be able to get his hooks in somebody's horse that he thinks he can "fix" up for a team slot in the future. It's a way to get them in front of real instruction, see if they can learn and improve. Then watch them compete and see if they know how to keep a top horse sound and listen to instruction. Some pairs don't seem to fit in some lists but I am sure there is a reason they are on them. We just don't know it. Or it isn't obvious to us experts here.
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  20. #20
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    IMO, dressage and SJ can be improved. What can't be improved so well is not having a CC machine. Would like to see Colleen and Shiraz have a chance too.


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