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  1. #41
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    The above weaning plan sounds ideal (and closest to the way it's done in nature , but with my mare's tendencies--see post #37--it just isn't worth the risk to other people's animals.
    "Hope is a good thing, maybe the best of things, and no good thing ever dies."

    "It's supposed to be hard...the hard is what makes it great!" (Jimmy Dugan, "A League of Their Own")


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  2. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Doolittle View Post
    The above weaning plan sounds ideal (and closest to the way it's done in nature , but with my mare's tendencies--see post #37--it just isn't worth the risk to other people's animals.
    Dr. Doolittle,

    Your concern for the other horses is thoughtful, but the reality is, the other horses will be fine. It is very simple and safe. Put the mare and foal out first, then turn out the boss of the herd (the one before the mare was out there) and turn him/her out. Then every 10 minutes turn out another horse in order of dominance. The mare will likely hurt no one, she will have to stick to her foal. If the other horses are mares it is even better. Lots of screaming, and stomping, but no injuries.

    Tim
    Sparling Rock Holsteiners
    www.sparlingrock.com


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  3. #43
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    Thanks for the input!

    Unfortunately there is no herd other than the "foal herd" (4 weanlings of varying ages), and they don't seem to have a "boss" among them, per se--they play with each other, but are mostly pretty docile and settled.

    Putting my mare out with these foals (and her own at the same time) would be too much of a risk; her filly already has social and dominant tendencies, and I can only imagine what her dam might do in that situation (I've seen her in action with other horses many times, she is *very* dominant, might go after and hurt another foal as soon as look at it!)

    I would never want to put other's foals "in harm's way" and would be uneasy even taking the chance--I wouldn't be able to live with myself if she injured one of them as a result of trying this out.

    It's all moot, since the BM would never sign off on this idea.

    I *really* wish it were possible to do things in a more gradual way, but the BM has her mind made up that this is the way she wants to do it.

    I TRULY wish there could be some sort of compromise to suggest to her, not that she would listen, but the cold turkey way seems to be the only option at this point.
    "Hope is a good thing, maybe the best of things, and no good thing ever dies."

    "It's supposed to be hard...the hard is what makes it great!" (Jimmy Dugan, "A League of Their Own")


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  4. #44
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    Apr. 28, 2008
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    I would use opportunity that the weaning has been postponed to find another place to keep them honestly.
    Making Your Ambitions a Reality at Secret Ambition Stables.
    Quality Welsh Ponies and Welsh Crosses bred for sport
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    Section A and Section B Welsh Ponies at stud


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  5. #45
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    Dec. 13, 2012
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dressage_Diva333 View Post
    I would use opportunity that the weaning has been postponed to find another place to keep them honestly.
    ^^^^^
    First and foremost about the horse.
    Rose Bud Ranch Sporthorses
    Like Us On Facebook!


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  6. #46
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    Oct. 4, 2010
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    Middle America
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Doolittle View Post
    ) her filly already has social and dominant tendencies, and I can only imagine what her dam might do in that situation (I've seen her in action with other horses many times, she is *very* dominant, might go after and hurt another foal as soon as look at it!)
    Having lived her entire life with only her mother just *might* be the cause for her lack of socialization. Just saying.

    ----

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Doolittle View Post
    I *really* wish it were possible to do things in a more gradual way, but the BM has her mind made up that this is the way she wants to do it.

    I TRULY wish there could be some sort of compromise to suggest to her, not that she would listen, but the cold turkey way seems to be the only option at this point.

    I see your location listed as Fairfax, VA. There are definitely other options where your mare and foal could be handled and treated in a more....I'm going to be polite and say logical, way

    And now to cease being polite: your BM/BO really, really does not sound like she knows what she is doing. She may have done things this way forever, and it *may* have worked out "okay" in the past but everything she's "insisting" upon seems pretty whackadoodle to me. Just because she's been raising foals for a long time doesn't mean she's done it *well.* OP, for the sake of your mare and foal, please don't assume that longevity equals expertise in this case.
    In order to think outside the box, one must first know what is in the box.


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  7. #47
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    Aug. 9, 2002
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    Alas, my options are limited in this area; despite "horse country" being just west of where I live (with the obscene amount of traffic and development between me and horse country meaning an hour on the road to go 25 miles ), there simply aren't a lot of farms that cater to mares AND foals--and I wanted to have them at a place where my filly could be weaned with other foals, and go out in a small, stable foal herd afterwards (which is what the BM has.)

    I did "research my options", and reached out to everyone I could before my mare even foaled out; there aren't as many places as you might think which would fit the bill. I was trying to find someone who was trustworthy (she has a good rep), who had a *lot* of experience with babies--which this BM has--and who would also be willing to keep my mare and foal in a separate pasture (see my previous posts about my mare's attitude towards other horses...)

    She was also willing to be flexible WRT a place to keep my mare "post weaning" (one of her rare accommodations!)

    I am really reluctant to move them in the middle of winter, without help (she has hauled them for me in her stock trailer--both from ERC to her place, and back and forth to their inspection.) I would have to remove the partition from my Hawk 2-horse, and hope they both fit in there. I have not had an opportunity to practice loading, obviously.

    I would REALLY like to be able to weather the storm (as it were) and stay put until after the filly has been weaned, especially since moving them hastily and impulsively from a stable environment (that they are used to)--especially at this time of year--would not be good for them.

    kadenz, the filly is very interested in other horses she sees, and is always trying to "socialize" with them from her pasture (they are separated with double fencing in adjacent pastures.) She is a very self-confident girl, hence my thought that she would likely move to the top of the pecking order when turned out with other babies, but would also be very happy to have playmates!

    I am frustrated and worried, I need to trust somebody to do the right thing here (which I thought would be my BM, since I'm not the mare and foal expert), but it's *very* difficult to deal with her and she is not open to any suggestion from me. I don't want to confront her and get her "back up" since she can always decide to kick us out, and I would have nowhere to go at the moment!
    "Hope is a good thing, maybe the best of things, and no good thing ever dies."

    "It's supposed to be hard...the hard is what makes it great!" (Jimmy Dugan, "A League of Their Own")



  8. #48
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    Mar. 8, 2004
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    You must feel so helpless, I am so sorry. I understand wanting to assert your wishes for your own animals but fearing repercussions so you keep your mouth shut. I would have my tongue twisted up in knots by now. I know there is room at my barn if you run into an emergency. If nothing else that would buy you some time. They will fit into your trailer with the divider out just fine, I have done it with two yearling colts as well as a mare and HUGE foal.


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  9. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Laurierace View Post
    You must feel so helpless, I am so sorry. I understand wanting to assert your wishes for your own animals but fearing repercussions so you keep your mouth shut. I would have my tongue twisted up in knots by now. I know there is room at my barn if you run into an emergency. If nothing else that would buy you some time. They will fit into your trailer with the divider out just fine, I have done it with two yearling colts as well as a mare and HUGE foal.
    Thanks so much, Laurie! And yes, exactly...

    Bless you for your understanding and kindness.

    I was explaining all of this to my father, and he said: "she has two hostages", so this limits my options for the moment; they are in her care and I am an hour away...

    I'm doing my best (and just trying to do what's best for them!)
    "Hope is a good thing, maybe the best of things, and no good thing ever dies."

    "It's supposed to be hard...the hard is what makes it great!" (Jimmy Dugan, "A League of Their Own")



  10. #50
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    Apr. 14, 2006
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Doolittle View Post
    Thanks for the input!

    Unfortunately there is no herd other than the "foal herd" (4 weanlings of varying ages), and they don't seem to have a "boss" among them, per se--they play with each other, but are mostly pretty docile and settled.

    Putting my mare out with these foals (and her own at the same time) would be too much of a risk; her filly already has social and dominant tendencies, and I can only imagine what her dam might do in that situation (I've seen her in action with other horses many times, she is *very* dominant, might go after and hurt another foal as soon as look at it!)

    I would never want to put other's foals "in harm's way" and would be uneasy even taking the chance--I wouldn't be able to live with myself if she injured one of them as a result of trying this out.

    It's all moot, since the BM would never sign off on this idea.

    I *really* wish it were possible to do things in a more gradual way, but the BM has her mind made up that this is the way she wants to do it.

    I TRULY wish there could be some sort of compromise to suggest to her, not that she would listen, but the cold turkey way seems to be the only option at this point.
    *******

    In the breeding business...the important "part" is the foal and his welfare. If the mare is a bit**, put her by herself when you move the baby to the kid's playground...sedate the mare if necessary. Put the foal with the other babies for company for a couple of days, then return to the mare at night...or not!!! I would NOT sedate a baby or put it in a solitary confinement situation. With companion foals, your foal will settle more easily. Is the mare kept alone at all other times?? If so she will have to adjust...but the baby needs friends!!
    www.crosscreeksporthorses.com
    Breeders of Painted Thoroughbreds and Uniquely Painted Irish Sport Horses in Northeast Oklahoma


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  11. #51
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    Aug. 9, 2002
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    Quote Originally Posted by crosscreeksh View Post
    *******

    In the breeding business...the important "part" is the foal and his welfare. If the mare is a bit**, put her by herself when you move the baby to the kid's playground...sedate the mare if necessary. Put the foal with the other babies for company for a couple of days, then return to the mare at night...or not!!! I would NOT sedate a baby or put it in a solitary confinement situation. With companion foals, your foal will settle more easily. Is the mare kept alone at all other times?? If so she will have to adjust...but the baby needs friends!!
    I can suggest this (not sure how well it will go over, HA! ), BM was planning to move the mare and keep her by herself in a stall until she chills out anyway (mare doesn't have an issue being in a stall, or being by herself--but she is still besotted with her filly.) I guess the worry would be that mom would scream for the baby from the stall, which is in earshot of the foal field.

    If removed from mom and put out with other foals, might my filly jump the pasture fence to get back to mom if she is in the barn 100 feet away, calling? Or run the fenceline? Too bad we can't muffle my mare...

    I am welcome to all reasonable suggestions (and thanks to everyone), but keep in mind that insisting that BM do things differently than she has planned to will go over like the proverbial lead balloon. She bats aside "suggestions" :-/
    "Hope is a good thing, maybe the best of things, and no good thing ever dies."

    "It's supposed to be hard...the hard is what makes it great!" (Jimmy Dugan, "A League of Their Own")



  12. #52
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    Aug. 21, 2012
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    OP I really feel for you and I hope everything works out OK. The one thing that really concerns me in most of your posts is that it should be all about YOUR wishes in how the weaning should occur and not your BO. You own the mare and foal, you are paying for board and services...it should be all about what you want and what you think is best. As the owner, you should have significant decision making. Good luck!


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  13. #53
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    Aug. 9, 2002
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ticker View Post
    OP I really feel for you and I hope everything works out OK. The one thing that really concerns me in most of your posts is that it should be all about YOUR wishes in how the weaning should occur and not your BO. You own the mare and foal, you are paying for board and services...it should be all about what you want and what you think is best. As the owner, you should have significant decision making. Good luck!
    Thanks, ticker--I really appreciate the support

    I agree, I need to keep this in mind, and you are not the first person who has reminded me of this. I second-guess myself because I am *merely* a "long-time horse person with 35-40 years of experience" (and a trainer, also), but I am NOT a mare and foal expert, so I defer to those who are.

    I think it may be time to talk to the BM on the phone about this stuff and assert myself--or at least get the dialogue going about this--though she is SO dang busy that it's difficult to pin her down for a real chat. We text, and she only calls me if she CAN'T text, or when my filly jumps out of the field over a 4' gate. To her credit, she was very calm (but now I dread calls from her; a text means "it's not an emergency"!)
    "Hope is a good thing, maybe the best of things, and no good thing ever dies."

    "It's supposed to be hard...the hard is what makes it great!" (Jimmy Dugan, "A League of Their Own")



  14. #54
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    Sounds like you have several problems here with the BO being number one!! I'm lucky that I've never had to board, but in my mind...the one who pays the bills gets a BIG say in what is done with the "payer's" animals!!! Take a deep breath, stand up straight and go talk to the BO in person. Eventually, unless both mom and foal live out their lives in secure stalls...they will have to get turned out. A reputable farm should have safe, escape proof turn outs for all their horses...foals included. This scenario is sounding more and more like a disaster in the making. I can't imagine a foal raised with no social interaction other than its mother on a "horse farm"!! And you don't have to be an expert on foal raising to figure out the best action....there are many books on the subject. Just because your BO has "experience" doesn't mean it is all good!! More good luck sent...sounds like you are going to need it. You might consider taking up some of the offered help from other COTHers in your area.
    www.crosscreeksporthorses.com
    Breeders of Painted Thoroughbreds and Uniquely Painted Irish Sport Horses in Northeast Oklahoma


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  15. #55
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    I have been on both sides of this equation and I know for a fact I have been asked to do some weird ass stuff to horses and probably asked people to do weird ass stuff to mine. Assuming I didn't think it would be putting the horse in imminent danger I did as I was asked as did the people I asked to do weird stuff to my horses. Whoever writes the check is the boss in my book! I did have to ask one guy to either buy me out or me buy him out because his micro-managing was driving me nuts, but the horse was half mine. Had it been all his I would have sucked it up.



  16. #56
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    Nov. 26, 2005
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    I am also "blessed" with a few bitchy mares who I don't dare put out with other mares' foals. So their babies have to put up with mom until weaning time.
    When weaning time approaches we start putting the babies together, with moms on the other side of the fences. We also limit moms' space so they don't run around like lunatics and get babies upset.
    These are two boys I weaned last year, the first time out together:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=13nMhC5mYj4

    We kept them together until they started looking upset and then put them back with moms. Did this every day, a little bit longer each time, until they were totally comfortable and then they just stayed together.
    The same year, I also had a filly, who was born later and whose mother had colic surgery after foaling. So she was weaned much later. We put her in with the two boys and followed the same procedure.
    This was day one:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N0syR4uER0I

    Mom is behind the far gate, by the blue bucket, as you can see she is not at all upset.
    After a few days the filly stayed with the boys and they became the best of friends. Mom also got a room-mate, the gray mare in the background who she had befriended over the gate.
    This system has worked well for my horses and reduces the stress to a minimum.
    You might remind your BO that if things don't work out you get to pay the vet and bear any loss that might ensue !
    Good luck !


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  17. #57
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    Aug. 9, 2002
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    elfe, first off, your horses are STUNNING!! Wow!

    And so great that you have fiber? footing for them in their T/O, this must really help prevent slipping and sliding

    Yours seems like a very reasonable way to first separate mom and baby; you have a good set-up for this. I really like the fact that they are able to see each other and "check in", but the mare is contained so she can't run. The way my BM's farm is laid out would make this impossible: there are big, square fields, some of which share a fenceline, but many of which have a double fence separation--and ALL of which already have regular occupants.

    There is no way to put mom in an adjacent field by herself (or anywhere near baby in a "confined area") while turning baby out with the other foals.

    You also have good sturdy fencing there! BM's farm is older, so has the standard three board fencing--but non of the fencing has been replaced for awhile. None of the horses seems to get into trouble because the fields are so big, they generally don't congregate near the fenceline.

    Yes, vet bills I fully insured my filly for mortality and major medical...

    ARGH. In restrospect, I AM glad I postponed, since we got a ton of rain overnight on Thursday, and now are getting lots of gusty wind! I guess it won't hurt to put this off, though it's postponing the inevitable--and the chances for a "spell of decent weather" diminish this time of year.

    Doesn't weaning them a little later make it easier? (she asks, hopefully?)
    "Hope is a good thing, maybe the best of things, and no good thing ever dies."

    "It's supposed to be hard...the hard is what makes it great!" (Jimmy Dugan, "A League of Their Own")



  18. #58
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    Jul. 14, 2004
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    You can wait as long as it takes. Usually by 6 months both mare and foal are so much more relaxed about the whole process. Your baby needs friends that have been turned out with it. Mare needs to leave.
    Randee Beckman ~Otteridge Farm, LLC (http://on.fb.me/1iJEqvR)~ Marketing Manager - The Clothes Horse



  19. #59
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    Nov. 26, 2005
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    Dr. Doolittle, what you are looking at (where the mares are) is just double fencing sectioned off. The one mare just has a gate on one side and a piece if electric fence on the other, making it about 12' by 20'. But I do agree that the fence needs to be solid.
    The stuff on the ground is what they call "hogs fuel", basically tree bark, chips, etc., by product of milling. It is popular here in the Pacific North West, but tends to get mucky when it rains a lot and decomposes. I am an East coast ex-pat and have not scienced this out copmpletely !
    Hope all goes well with your "kids" !



  20. #60
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    Jun. 21, 2004
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    Elfe- You filly is stunning!
    *^*^*^
    Himmlische Traumpferde
    "Wenn Du denkst es geht nicht mehr, kommt von irgendwo ein kleines Licht daher"



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