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  1. #1
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    Default TB Pedigree Advice Needed

    There are so many experts on thoroughbred pedigrees on this forum. I am looking at this one and am not familiar with the first 3 generations (I'm not at all an expert).

    http://www.pedigreequery.com/fairness+for+all

    Advice/feedback most appreciated!

    I will soon be looking for a prospect, if all goes as planned. as if it ever does



  2. #2
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  3. #3
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    Default

    Broad Brush is very interesting....nice sire. Should jump. I've know a few by Saint Ballado---really pretty and a very nice types. Of course lots of good names further back as well...ones that I like to see (Caro, Dixieland Band, Hoist the Flag, Herbager, Turn To, Roberto). This looks like a promising pedigree.....although the horse in front of you is of course more important than the pedigree.
    ** The difference between genius and stupidity is genius has its limits. -- Albert Einstein **



  4. #4
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    Default

    Include (by Broad Brush) has sired some nice horses. I've known a couple personally that would have made nice eventers-- leggy, balanced, light on their feet, and nice movers.

    The second one... I've not seen any Congressionalhonor offspring, but many Forestrys tend to be flashy and well-balanced (though sometimes a bit chunky). Interesting little bit of Quiet American with the Forestry, doubles up on the Dr. Fager (both daughters, too).

    More imporantly... what do each of these horses look like? Both are interesting on paper, but beauty is as beauty does.
    “A clever person solves a problem. A wise person avoids it.”
    ? Albert Einstein

    ~AJ~



  5. #5
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    Default

    I like both horses on paper, and both horses' sires look to be nice types in the confo shots.

    The second horse's sire's damline has produced some fabulous racehorses, including Saint Liam, Harve De Grace, Quiet Giant to name a few.

    Also, I own a (very old) horse who is by Flight Dancer's full brother (Flight Dancer is CongressionalHonor's third dam). My old guy was/is quiet the athlete. Bought him OT @ 9, competed thru Prelim (with the talent to go all the way) and was my show hunter. And, he's still pretty sound



  6. #6
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    Default

    Not to hijack... But would also love any opinions on this one:

    http://www.pedigreequery.com/hollywoodanddivine



  7. #7
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    Default

    On a slight tangent, looking at pedigrees is fun, but if it's a gelding...that blood's not going to mean a whole lot without looking at the horse since he's a dead end. Which I know you know. But really, genetics is still mostly a crap shoot when you get down to the nitty-gritty, so what do the horses look like?



  8. #8
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    Default

    Hey, all, here are the pics. And I do think that pedigrees are important as far as predicting the attitude and soundness of a horse. Some lines are known to be braver and tougher than others.

    http://aftertheraces.org/horses/fairness-for-all-flynn/ This is the first horse, Fairness for All, 4 year old 15.2ish. The video shows a tense, and probably body/foot sore horse that looks like he could move well with work and being more comfortable. It's hard to see with his being so stiff. But I've seen horses like this who turned out to be awesome movers once they became comfortable and stronger.

    http://aftertheraces.org/horses/vals-honor/ and the second, who is a 3 year old and stands 15 hds. There is no video of him and I love little horses as long as they move like big horses. So I can't tell much from a standing photo at this point.



  9. #9
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    Default

    We just picked up Belle's Notion from AtR yesterday, and I saw both these guys. Flynn is really nice. I think he would make a great eventer. Val is small and still quite immature looking, so I bet he will grow quite a bit. He was super-sweet. We were in his stall loving on him. This is a great organization--I highly recommend!
    Delaware Park Canter Volunteer
    http://www.canterusa.org/



  10. #10
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    Default

    Great info and congrats on your new horse! It is really hard to see what they're like in a photo or even in a video.

    Thanks all for the input. Looking forward to more. This is a slow process... I always look at a ton of horses before I make the commitment.

    Quote Originally Posted by kcmel View Post
    We just picked up Belle's Notion from AtR yesterday, and I saw both these guys. Flynn is really nice. I think he would make a great eventer. Val is small and still quite immature looking, so I bet he will grow quite a bit. He was super-sweet. We were in his stall loving on him. This is a great organization--I highly recommend!



  11. #11
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    There are so many OTTBs for sale that I start narrowing my choices down by pedigree, and I don't like Storm Cat. There are exceptions to every rule, and people here who have nice descendants of Storm Cat, but if you don't buy and sell a lot you might as well start somewhere. The few Include offspring I've been around seem to have good temperaments, and I love Stop The Music. Going farther back I know a Dixieland Band son who produces very pretty babies, and Caro is always good to see in a sport pedigree. Also love Silver Hawk (but then I love just about anything by Roberto)
    "Everyone will start to cheer, when you put on your sailin shoes"-Lowell George

    What's the status on Tuco?


    2 members found this post helpful.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by I ride Gibson View Post
    Not to hijack... But would also love any opinions on this one:

    http://www.pedigreequery.com/hollywoodanddivine
    I'd like to hear Vinney's opinion on it as well.

    Out of a Theatrical mare...nice.

    I don't know much about the sire...but he is handsome!

    http://www.tommytownfarms.com/stalli...sters-wild-cat

    His dam is by Kris S. Only negative I see is that there are a couple of lines to RAN so you want to make sure his conformation is good.
    ** The difference between genius and stupidity is genius has its limits. -- Albert Einstein **



  13. #13
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    Default

    TM, I agree about Storm Cat. The ones I've known have been wacky and hot and not nice to handle. And I buy horses with the intent of making them into Ammy horses. But Storm Cat is not the sire and maybe the rest has canceled him out. Dunno.


    Quote Originally Posted by Toadie's mom View Post
    There are so many OTTBs for sale that I start narrowing my choices down by pedigree, and I don't like Storm Cat. There are exceptions to every rule, and people here who have nice descendants of Storm Cat, but if you don't buy and sell a lot you might as well start somewhere. The few Include offspring I've been around seem to have good temperaments, and I love Stop The Music. Going farther back I know a Dixieland Band son who produces very pretty babies, and Caro is always good to see in a sport pedigree. Also love Silver Hawk (but then I love just about anything by Roberto)



  14. #14
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    I have an awesome ammy horse who is a SC grandson--wonderful mind. So hard to predict.



  15. #15
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    I have never had one single issue with any storm cat offspring or relative. I ride a ton of them every year and think that any horse that has bunch of offspring will likely have some bad eggs out there but I just do not buy into the whole Storm Cat babies are tough theory.


    3 members found this post helpful.

  16. #16
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    I sold an Include filly to one of our "COTHer's: she is lovely in every way.

    If you plan to keep great, but for re-sale they are smallish....

    Its tough to avid some Sires who were very over used and often invade a pedigree many many times top and bottom...but when I find one w/O Mr. P and Storm Cat I do tend to look a 2nd time at the horse


    1 members found this post helpful.

  17. #17
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    Jess, I totally take your opinion very seriously and it is good to know this. I've known only a handful and they were direct offspring. We have to remember that the sire is 50%, Grandsire 25%, Great Grandsire 12.5% and so on. And I know there are some wonderful qualities of the SC babies as well. The ones I've known have been gorgeous and talented.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jleegriffith View Post
    I have never had one single issue with any storm cat offspring or relative. I ride a ton of them every year and think that any horse that has bunch of offspring will likely have some bad eggs out there but I just do not buy into the whole Storm Cat babies are tough theory.



  18. #18
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    Jess, I totally take your opinion very seriously and it is good to know this. I've known only a handful and they were direct offspring. We have to remember that the sire is 50%, Grandsire 25%, Great Grandsire 12.5% and so on. And I know there are some wonderful qualities of the SC babies as well. The ones I've known have been gorgeous and talented.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jleegriffith View Post
    I have never had one single issue with any storm cat offspring or relative. I ride a ton of them every year and think that any horse that has bunch of offspring will likely have some bad eggs out there but I just do not buy into the whole Storm Cat babies are tough theory.



  19. #19
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    Default

    I know I'm coming in late to this discussion but wanted to pipe in and say I'm the COTHer who has the Include daughter purchased from JBRP. She's out of a Silver Charm mare.

    I ADORE my mare. And that is saying a LOT because I have been a much bigger fan of geldings over the years. My girl has a FANTASTIC temperament--curious, friendly, and a real "doer." I got her this past summer when she was 4 1/2 and had a little restart. I rarely lunge her and can go several days without riding her and hop on and have a decent ride (no buck, rear, crazy antics). She will hack out quietly alone or with a group, works well indoors or out, and is a willing jumper with lovely form. I keep telling her she's the only mare I've owned who I truly like

    She's maybe 15.2/15.3 but I'm only 5' so to me she's a great size. You'd never know she was that small based on her jump or length of stride though!

    Feel free to PM with any questions.



  20. #20
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    While it is true that the farther back you go in the pedigree the smaller the pure % of genetic information present, BUT, and it is a big but for a reason, we are not just talking a random 12.5% or 25% or 50% of genetic material. If you get a collection of dominant genes from an excellent ancestor it can be the traits a horse is known for. It can be a recessive gene searching for its mate making a low necked Storm Cat into an up hill sport horse. It is not a pound of genes, it is a blend of dominant and recessive genes to combine with the other 75% of dominant and recessive genes to make a sport horse...or a race horse...sometimes both.


    1 members found this post helpful.

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