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  1. #21
    Join Date
    May. 5, 2011
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    Snohomish, WA
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    552

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    Quote Originally Posted by newhorsemommy View Post
    My gelding's been on Bute for about a month now due to low-grade laminitis. I'm not too worried about it.

    I use the powdered form, and I mix it into some soaked pellets, so he doesn't get it on an empty stomach. He also gets it either right after breakfast or just before dinner.

    I haven't looked into this theory at all, but it seems to me that it's probably similar to a person taking Ibuprofen. You are supposed to take it with food to avoid stomach upset, so I don't know why it would be any different for horses.
    Quote Originally Posted by Juxtapoze View Post
    I would definitely ask your vet or farrier to check for an abscess. Sounds exactly what I went through with my OTTB last year during our first winter together. Been there, done that, doing it again right now with my horse... Nothing like soaking & hand-walking when it's 19 degrees. Shoes are my horse's best friends. If you are really committed to going barefoot, you may want to start using a sole toughener like Durasole once an abscess is ruled out. Good luck!
    I definitely do this too. He gets it mixed in his grain at Breakfast and Dinner. So he eats hay right after and has a nice full belly. I don't know if it truly helps but hey, it makes me feel a little better.

    Juxtapoze, I haven't even thought of an abscess. Will ask the farrier.


    Free lunged him in the round pen yesterday. He was super lazy and there were several distractions. He hopped both directions and nearly every trot transition. He didn't seem in pain, just didn't care. High head, hollow back. My friend who knows him well said he thinks he was just being lazy. He did get spooked at the very end and moved a LOT nicer. Makes me think that it's a top line or balance issue. When he isn't paying attention he moves poorly, when he is using himself nicely the hop disappears and he floats. Same thing under saddle, when its just flat work he sucks back and does just enough, when its time to jump he carries himself nicer, moves forward and his whole attitude changes. I've decided to take him off the bute and see if we notice any difference. I told the BM that I'd like to put shoes back on him, he was really sore for a while after I took them off in Sept. I'm not set on going barefoot, it just is easier in the winter on the turnouts, he isn't required to do any heavy work and it saves a little money. Plus, BM is kind of a barefoot fan. He was barefoot last winter but he pretty much had the winter off because the lack of an arena, I put shoes back on in the summer, figured I'd do the same but if he just isn't comfortable being barefoot, I don't mind keeping shoes on him. I also don't like the barn farrier. He doesn't seem to do a very even trim.
    Last edited by PrimoAmor; Dec. 21, 2012 at 04:36 PM. Reason: Few corrections and more info.



  2. #22
    Join Date
    Apr. 28, 2008
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    7,547

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    If he is tolerating it well I would give as needed while you are figuring this out.

    I had an old navicular horse that was on 1g of bute twice a day for 12 years and he never had any trouble with ulcers. None of my other horses have had issues with short-term use (a few days here and there). I feed free choice hay so there might be something to the "with food" theory.

    My horse with ulcer issues has never had any bute, but I would give ulcergard or pop rocks at the same time if he needed to go on it.

    My understanding is that Equioxx is an NSAID too and can cause the same ulcer issues. Same with Devil's Claw, etc. They are all tough on stomachs but like people, many horses have no problems. I could eat Advil like candy and never have a problem with my stomach whereas my mom doesn't do well on it at all.



  3. #23
    Join Date
    Mar. 8, 2004
    Location
    Baltimore, MD
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    A good farrier is invaluable but you need xrays asap.


    2 members found this post helpful.

  4. #24
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    Aug. 18, 2012
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    82

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    Quote Originally Posted by Juxtapoze View Post
    I would definitely ask your vet or farrier to check for an abscess. Sounds exactly what I went through with my OTTB last year during our first winter together. Been there, done that, doing it again right now with my horse... Nothing like soaking & hand-walking when it's 19 degrees. Shoes are my horse's best friends. !
    --- Shoes don't prevent abscess.



  5. #25
    Join Date
    Apr. 14, 2001
    Location
    Minnesota
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    17,645

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    Quote Originally Posted by Laurierace View Post
    A good farrier is invaluable but you need xrays asap.
    YES.

    Time to call the vet. Laminitis is one of those things that you do not want to screw around with. Radiographs. Now.


    1 members found this post helpful.

  6. #26
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    Apr. 28, 2008
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    Yep, you need the vet out, not just the farrier. Laminitis is nothing to mess around with.



  7. #27
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    Mar. 16, 2006
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    Larkspur, Colo.
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    5,119

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    Quote Originally Posted by newhorsemommy View Post
    My gelding's been on Bute for about a month now due to low-grade laminitis. I'm not too worried about it.

    I use the powdered form, and I mix it into some soaked pellets, so he doesn't get it on an empty stomach. He also gets it either right after breakfast or just before dinner.

    I haven't looked into this theory at all, but it seems to me that it's probably similar to a person taking Ibuprofen. You are supposed to take it with food to avoid stomach upset, so I don't know why it would be any different for horses.

    Taking NSAIDs with food helps but is no guarantee against ulcers!

    > Enteric-coated NSAIDs do not prevent ulceration

    > Ulcer formation is seen with parenteral (non-oral) forms of NSAID administration.

    For the technicalities on it, read here:

    http://physrev.physiology.org/content/88/4/1547.long

    See this section:
    V. MECHANISMS OF NSAID-INDUCED GASTRIC DAMAGE


    As one who is extremely sensitive to these drugs, I can attest to this fact. In addition, according to my doctor ranitidine doesn't work for everyone -- it doesn't work for me. The only effective treatment for me is a large enough dose of omeprazole (40 mg per day).


    Remember that horses are often very stoic and you cannot tell from looking at them whether they have ulcers.

    In my opinion you should always administer an ulcer preventive with bute, even if only given for a day or two.



  8. #28
    Join Date
    Aug. 9, 2002
    Location
    USA
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    1,925

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    For your horse's sake - please, please STOP doing any type of work with him until you get a vet out (which should have been yesterday) for radiographs.

    Has anyone put hoof testers on? If so, is he sore in the general toe area? Is he landing heel first?

    You really need a vet out ASAP because laminitis can go REALLY bad, REALLY QUICK.

    It's a good idea to stop the bute before the vet arrives (preferably 2-3 days before) so he/she can get an accurate assessment of the horse's true pain level.



  9. #29
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    Aug. 9, 2002
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    USA
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    Quote Originally Posted by newhorsemommy View Post
    I haven't looked into this theory at all, but it seems to me that it's probably similar to a person taking Ibuprofen. You are supposed to take it with food to avoid stomach upset, so I don't know why it would be any different for horses.
    For myself, taking ibuprofen (with a meal) for a week landed me in the ER with a nasogastric tube down my nose until the GI doc could get there to cauterize the bleeding ulcer I gave myself. That was a fun two days in the hospital.

    Just like people - some can tolerate ibuprofen, just like some horses can tolerate bute & others can't.



  10. #30
    Join Date
    Dec. 13, 1999
    Location
    Greensboro, NC
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    NSAIDs might cause some direct contact upset in the stomach, but at least in horses, that's NOT why it causes ulcers. It has nothing to do with contact - it's all about what happens systemically.

    Bute is a Cox inhibitor, not selective (or at least not selective for anything that doesn't matter). It reduces prostaglandin production, and the prostaglandins are necessary for a healthy stomach lining. When that's compromised, you get that stomach acid sloshing in thin or non-existent lining, and voila - ulcers.

    Firocoxib - Equiox, Previcox - is a bit more selective and doesn't reduce prostaglandin production as much. It STILL has the ability to allow ulcers to develop, just not as big a risk as bute.
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