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  1. #281
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    My last trainer before I made the "switch" to the dark side was an International reining trainer.

    I do see a bit of common ground now here and there but Dressage opened my eyes to a whole nother level of training with the horse that you just cannot understand without taking the blue pill. You cant unlearn it once you learn it but its incredibly helpful for any other discipline to be sure.

    Now if I ride a reiner I am so much more refined in my aids it only helps me doing that discipline when I worried if I ever tried to ride it again I would have trouble. I am much more clear and disciplined in my leg and dont waste as much time flagging the leg or spur spur. A horse finely tuned like a reiner appreciates my new ability to whisper
    ~~Member of the TB's Rule Clique ~~
    http://www.off-breed-dressage.blogspot.com/


    1 members found this post helpful.

  2. #282
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    Oct. 20, 2007
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    From page 1 of the WDAA site, note the small print USEF disclaimer: http://westerndressageassociation.or...sAllBreeds.pdf



  3. #283
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    Mar. 26, 2011
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    You are looking at an old rule book. That disclaimer is no longer there.

    http://westerndressageassociation.or...a77f38b1_e.pdf

    Paula
    He is total garbage! Quick! Hide him on my trailer (Petstorejunkie).



  4. #284
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    I expect the USDF statement in the original post, from which this thread has strayed, will replace the need for the disclaimer.


    2 members found this post helpful.

  5. #285
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    Aug. 14, 2004
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    7,540

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    ok, this is the first time i have read the descriptors - and all i can say is are you kidding me? they took the entire rules and for "Trot" they inserted "jog-trot" in its place - this makes no sense what so ever.

    if the horse were truly free and forward he would not be jog-trotting! i especially love the part where it says that the passage and piaffe are variations of the "Jog-Trot" *snort* !

    i can see what the USDF took the stance they did because the rules as posted above only serve to muddy already muddy waters.

    i think the westsern dressage folks should go create their own rules and descriptions and leave us fuddy duddy dressage folks alone


    3 members found this post helpful.

  6. #286
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    Quote Originally Posted by mbm View Post
    if the horse were truly free and forward he would not be jog-trotting!
    I think a little unrealistic, mbm. There are a lot of horses whose confirmation does not naturally dispose them to the trot that's expected of a dressage horse. Western dressage could be a niche for those horses. Hey, this is America, land of opportunity, the great melting pot.


    1 members found this post helpful.

  7. #287
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    Sep. 13, 2000
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    Greenville, MI,
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    Quote Originally Posted by alicen View Post
    I think a little unrealistic, mbm. There are a lot of horses whose confirmation does not naturally dispose them to the trot that's expected of a dressage horse. Western dressage could be a niche for those horses. Hey, this is America, land of opportunity, the great melting pot.
    But true Dressage does not Encourage the Jog!
    I am so glad to read USDF's stand on this issue.
    Why do western Folks feel the need to include themselves in a sport that is so different from their own.
    I agree mbm, Let them make their own rules and their own shows.
    I do not show up at one of their shows in Full Dressage regalia and enter in a western pleasure class. Why would I ?
    This whole thing is a bit odd.
    "you can only ride the drama llama so hard before it decides to spit in your face." ?Caffeinated.


    4 members found this post helpful.

  8. #288
    Join Date
    Sep. 13, 2000
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    Greenville, MI,
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    Quote Originally Posted by cnm161 View Post
    And that speaks exactly to what I was saying earlier. You CAN do whatever the heck you want to do at home. Bitless, braless, bareback and backwards. Whatever you want. You can have chandeliers in your cathedral to yourself. You can do whatever your heart desires. Nobody on this thread is saying you can't ride your horse in a western saddle and still do a leg yield or that you can't take your horse out on the trail or over a log or through some cattle or around some barrels or... the list goes on.

    But when you want to show, you play by the rules everyone else does. The hockey pads are for hockey. Leave the stick by the rink if you want to play football.

    You're arguing an entirely different point than longride1 or, as far as I can see it, any other western dressage proponent. They're arguing for the return of purity of the gaits of western horses. Against the pull of western pleasure/reining. You're arguing that nobody can tell you what to do or what to think.
    Exactly right, why is this so hard for PE to understand.
    Someone mentioned Obtuse! I think maybe so.
    "you can only ride the drama llama so hard before it decides to spit in your face." ?Caffeinated.


    5 members found this post helpful.

  9. #289
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    Jul. 3, 2012
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    YES YES YES. This has been my point exactly. It isn't dressage. I think the USDF did absolutely the right thing!

    Quote Originally Posted by mbm View Post
    ok, this is the first time i have read the descriptors - and all i can say is are you kidding me? they took the entire rules and for "Trot" they inserted "jog-trot" in its place - this makes no sense what so ever.

    if the horse were truly free and forward he would not be jog-trotting! i especially love the part where it says that the passage and piaffe are variations of the "Jog-Trot" *snort* !

    i can see what the USDF took the stance they did because the rules as posted above only serve to muddy already muddy waters.

    i think the westsern dressage folks should go create their own rules and descriptions and leave us fuddy duddy dressage folks alone


    2 members found this post helpful.

  10. #290
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    Sep. 27, 2009
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    267

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    The description of the jog/trot is what a trot 'should' be and that is why the use of the two words.

    The jog as it exists in Western world is not the true trot of a working cow horse. And, as a material fact, is not how the two-beat jog is described in the AQHA rules, as most horses in jog are actually moving in three and four beat.

    (2) The jog is a smooth, ground-covering two-beat diagonal gait.

    Why are so many folks trying to maintain the elistist attitude regarding dressage? The movements and gait of dressage are what horses do on their own without us. That means that horses ridden in western equipment and doing cow work can do Dressage. Today, competitive dressage is not about the natural movement of the horses, but rather the flashy gaits that the trainers and riders can manipulate the horses into performing. A trot is a trot, the length of stride of trot is predicated upon the conformation of the horse. So a cow horse can trot and lengthen trot in the same manner as a competitive dressage horse, however, the result is NATURAL and not FLASHICAL.


    3 members found this post helpful.

  11. #291
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    Oct. 20, 2007
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    Quote Originally Posted by dragonharte8 View Post
    The jog as it exists in Western world is not the true trot of a working cow horse.
    Are you talking about Western pleasure. If so, well, yeah, they are not working cow horses. There are other classes for that, just as there are classes for regular dressage competitions. What is it that people don't understand about that? And why is it that more people who are interested in Western dressage post here rather than on the Western forum?


    1 members found this post helpful.

  12. #292
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    Jul. 3, 2012
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    dragonharte8, are you talking about Quarter Horse jog? How do you compare a Morgan jog to that of a working cow horse? I'm not arguing...just want to get a clear picture of what you are talking about.

    I saw a Quarter Horse class and it looked like they were all stuck in caramel. So slow that the next class was being brought into the ring while the previous class was lining up. And several horses who were barely moving got chastised and made to slow down. If that's the type you're talking about, then I agree!



  13. #293
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    Jul. 21, 2011
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    Quote Originally Posted by ezduzit View Post
    dragonharte8, are you talking about Quarter Horse jog? How do you compare a Morgan jog to that of a working cow horse? I'm not arguing...just want to get a clear picture of what you are talking about.

    I saw a Quarter Horse class and it looked like they were all stuck in caramel. So slow that the next class was being brought into the ring while the previous class was lining up. And several horses who were barely moving got chastised and made to slow down. If that's the type you're talking about, then I agree!
    ezduzit, I'm afraid clarity is not one of dragonharte8's strong points.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CiHeTdTXtzA

    http://www.ratemyhorsepro.com/equine...efendants.aspx

    http://spirithorseltd.com.futuresite...obyjumping.jpg


    1 members found this post helpful.

  14. #294
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    Quote Originally Posted by ezduzit View Post
    dragonharte8, are you talking about Quarter Horse jog? How do you compare a Morgan jog to that of a working cow horse? I'm not arguing...just want to get a clear picture of what you are talking about.

    I saw a Quarter Horse class and it looked like they were all stuck in caramel. So slow that the next class was being brought into the ring while the previous class was lining up. And several horses who were barely moving got chastised and made to slow down. If that's the type you're talking about, then I agree!
    ezduzit, I'm afraid clarity is not one of dragonharte8's strong points.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CiHeTdTXtzA

    http://www.ratemyhorsepro.com/equine...efendants.aspx

    http://spirithorseltd.com.futuresite...obyjumping.jpg



  15. #295
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    Apr. 22, 2011
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    the Armpit of the Nation
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    I thought that video was gone for good, Skydy. I wonder if the good people who are part of SpiritH's Dressage Schooling Discussion FB group have ever seen that?

    " ezduzit, I'm afraid clarity is not one of dragonharte8's strong points.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CiHeTdTXtzA

    http://www.ratemyhorsepro.com/equine...efendants.aspx

    http://spirithorseltd.com.futuresite...obyjumping.jpg. "
    When someone shows you who they are, BELIEVE THEM.


    2 members found this post helpful.

  16. #296
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    May. 5, 2006
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    Quote Originally Posted by skydy View Post
    Is there are crupper on that horse? Good Lord, that horse is wearing a lot of gadgets and devices. The martingale looks like a racing fork, and if it's purpose is to make it possible for the horse to open his shoulder and trot rather than jog, why all the excuses for the jog?

    A chair seat is a "correct seat", as opposed to a "traditional" seat, which is apparently incorrect?
    Sheilah


    2 members found this post helpful.

  17. #297
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    Jul. 21, 2011
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    Sorry to derail. Just thought that ezduzit was expecting clarity and thus wasn't familiar with our spirithorse/dragonhart8. (I left out the mug shot and the video of the "lesson"...).

    There is so much good advice and discussion on this BB and it seems a shame not to let someone know that they are "peeing in the wind" until AFTER they have wasted their time, trying to understand that which cannot be understood..
    Last edited by skydy; Dec. 26, 2012 at 02:19 AM.


    2 members found this post helpful.

  18. #298
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    Oct. 20, 2007
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    Quote Originally Posted by skydy View Post
    Sorry to derail. Just thought that ezduzit was expecting clarity and thus wasn't familiar with our spirithorse/dragonhart8.
    No apology necessary. An illustrious video is always appreciated.


    1 members found this post helpful.

  19. #299
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    Aug. 5, 2009
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    Since western riding has its own vocabulary with regard to gaits, it would seem to me logical that they would use the words jog and lope in their tests. Amending jog to jog-trot to me would signify a slightly more animated jog/trot than in WP classes (which stand more or less by themselves).

    Frankly, this is trying to make a mountain out of a molehill. If someone wants to try the western programs fine, have at it. I'll bet it will redefine itself as it progresses. And it certainly is no threat to "real" dressage (competition type), even though according to the "classical" purists, it is not real dressage either.

    Actually, I have more of a problem with gaited dressage, since I think an actual trot/jog or what have you is essential in the overall picture of three pure gaits. However, I am not wailing and rending my garments because someone chooses to ride a "gaited dressage" test.



  20. #300
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    Apr. 17, 2002
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    Betonbill, the gaited tests define the gaits very plainly it's not like the NWHA tests call for a trot, and we go ahead with a flat walk and hope the judge was partaking during the Beer and BBQ tests



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