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  1. #21
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    Many of the folks giving up citizenship have lived overseas for years and have married citizens in the country in which they live. Now the IRS is wanting to tax both their incomes, wants info on their joint accounts. We are also the only country to tax their citizens who earn money living in other countries. And I understand if our government thinks you gave up your citizenship to avoid taxes, you can't reenter the country.And now trying to figure out a way to crab a bunch of $$$ as you leave.


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  2. #22
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    Americans don't move. They just move their money.


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  3. #23
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    The tax system in Sweden drove my husband's grandfather and his brothers to come here to the USA.


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  4. #24
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    Post 16. I presented an article with F-A-C-T-S provided by the government & I get a thumbs down? Dear thumbs downer, would you have rather I just made up false numbers?
    "Police officers are public servants. Not James Bond with a license to kill."


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  5. #25
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    Well, good riddance frankly. I am surprised he did not choose Switzerland or Monaco... I do not feel sorry for him one bit. And right now, even if he wants to, he cannot give up on his citizenship because you cannot be stateless... He will have to endure a bit longer...
    But really, this is nothing new. So many performers live in Switzerland (Aznavour) or in Monaco. My own cousin set up his co. in Luxemburg (our family is originally from there and since his dad is still alive ... he could take that citizenship)... for tax purposes.
    As Lex said, the CEO of LVMH did the same thing.
    I am NOT worried about all these guys... they have accountants figuring out how to pay as little tax as possible.

    I DO worry though about the retirees in France who will also be taxed at a higher rate even if their income is nowhere near "high". My mother mentions this to me every time I talk to her!

    But, the French can't complain of the general measures about to affect everyone ... (I know it's difficult!), they elected this bright light!
    Last edited by FalseImpression; Dec. 19, 2012 at 12:00 AM.


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  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by happymom View Post
    Americans don't move. They just move their money.
    Oh yes indeed they do move! And give up their citizenship!

    A: Did you not read post 16 with facts?

    B: I have actually met a few in real life.
    "Police officers are public servants. Not James Bond with a license to kill."


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  7. #27
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    It wasn't all that long ago that a group of expat Englishmen decided they didn't like paying taxes to their homeland. The result of that dispute was a nation called the United States of America. Those English expats colonists even had the nerve to call themselves 'patriots'.

    It's ancient history to change nation-state affiliations for economic purposes, whether it be taxes or opportunity. Given the origins of the USA, it's quite funny to see Americans call others 'unpatriotic' for doing so.


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  8. #28
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    to be honest, with the way I'm being taxed these days; a move to somewhere more "fiscally reasonable" doesn't really sound all that preposterous or unpatriotic to me... I'm in a very average-level-income tax bracket; and according to my Leave & Earnings statements, I'm being taxed at about 48% per paycheck.

    So sometimes I have to make those "mortgage or grocery store" decisions; despite working very hard and giving up so much (like my horse, for example) to live within my means. I shouldn't be so financially "maxed out" (or this close to it) as I am, given how careful I am with my money.

    Or should I say... "lack thereof."


    I'm all about helping the people in my country who are in true need, and have no qualms about paying my dues, tax-wise. But these days, I'm feeling more and more like I'm being taken advantage of by my own government. The more money I make, the less of it I see... Yeah, I'm grateful to have a job, and all that; but it really does seem that the harder you work, and the more successful you become; the more you are punished for it by way of having more and more of what you've earned taken away from you.

    I mean goddamn- I'm trying to do this on my own here (just like so many others), and to say "it ain't cheap" is a gross understatement.

    When politicians say, "this country's economy relies on a strong working middle class," I believe them... Who else is going to pay the bills for everyone else?

    But politics aside, what I'm really talking about here is survival... I don't see anything wrong with relocating to a place that you can actually afford. For those who are saying it's an 'unpatriotic' thing to do; I suggest that they remove their political party-colored glasses and really take a good look at the reality of life: how can you expect someone who is continually being drained/wrung out to dry financially, to be able to support themselves?
    Quote Originally Posted by Martha Drum View Post
    ...But I don't want to sit helmetless on my horse while he lies on the ground kicking a ball around without a bridle while Leatherface does an interpretive dance with his chainsaw around us.


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  9. #29
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    People move all the time between states to escape taxes. Look at the emigration from California, of both people and corporations. Quite a few of them to Texas!

    And NY has also experienced a drain of the highest earners.


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  10. #30
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    you don't really need to move, just stop paying as it appears many have as of the end of fiscal year 2010, the balance of reported unpaid federal taxes was about $330 billion.

    Given the many challenges that IRS faces, the enforcement of the tax laws and the tax code is to go after the list of high-value targets


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  11. #31
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    Depardieu can perfectly afford to live in France, he's only moving because he thinks he's paying too much in taxes, but he's paying so much because he EARNS so much. I don't feel bad for him at ALL. He and the likes of him (all the Johnny Hallidays et al) have lawyers who find fiscal " niches" for them left and right. He's not the first one to do this and won't be the last.
    Ottbs - The finish line is only the beginning!


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  12. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by kathy s. View Post
    I agree. And isn't that what the current administration hopes to accomplish?
    The current administration would like to raise the highest tax rate to 39.6%
    Holy crap, how does Darwin keep missing you? ~Lauruffian



  13. #33
    kathy s. is offline Grand Prix Premium Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by ReeseTheBeast View Post
    to be honest, with the way I'm being taxed these days; a move to somewhere more "fiscally reasonable" doesn't really sound all that preposterous or unpatriotic to me... I'm in a very average-level-income tax bracket; and according to my Leave & Earnings statements, I'm being taxed at about 48% per paycheck.

    So sometimes I have to make those "mortgage or grocery store" decisions; despite working very hard and giving up so much (like my horse, for example) to live within my means. I shouldn't be so financially "maxed out" (or this close to it) as I am, given how careful I am with my money.

    Or should I say... "lack thereof."


    I'm all about helping the people in my country who are in true need, and have no qualms about paying my dues, tax-wise. But these days, I'm feeling more and more like I'm being taken advantage of by my own government. The more money I make, the less of it I see... Yeah, I'm grateful to have a job, and all that; but it really does seem that the harder you work, and the more successful you become; the more you are punished for it by way of having more and more of what you've earned taken away from you.

    I mean goddamn- I'm trying to do this on my own here (just like so many others), and to say "it ain't cheap" is a gross understatement.

    When politicians say, "this country's economy relies on a strong working middle class," I believe them... Who else is going to pay the bills for everyone else?

    But politics aside, what I'm really talking about here is survival... I don't see anything wrong with relocating to a place that you can actually afford. For those who are saying it's an 'unpatriotic' thing to do; I suggest that they remove their political party-colored glasses and really take a good look at the reality of life: how can you expect someone who is continually being drained/wrung out to dry financially, to be able to support themselves?
    In my previous job I knew not to make over a certain amount because the amount taken out under that amount was 28 Cents on the dollar. Over that amount and it reversed to 72 cents on the dollar. I was penalized for earning more.
    Those of you that feel an 85% tax rate is A OK then feel free to contribute more to your government. And as far as loopholes for rich people, who do you think makes those type of laws? Politicians that wish to keep more of their own money.
    And actually, I'll argue that the IRS will often target those that are unable to fight back, not people that can afford challenge it. Tim Geithner comes to mind.
    I've got to run but I'll see if I can find references to support my argument.
    It's only when a mosquito lands on your privates that you realize there is always a way to solve problems without using violence. fb meme.


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  14. #34
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    I think there is a tipping point where a tax is just way too much (85%), but in the 50% range, we get a whole lot of bang for our buck. We just have to stay vigilant that the gov't is not feeding at the public trough and wasting our hard earned money. I feel we owe those less fortunate than ourselves a share of our safety net. Some of the spending fiascos are deplorable in every government.
    Proud member of People Who Hate to Kill Wildlife clique


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  15. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by AffirmedHope View Post
    85% of his revenue to taxes is insane. I don't blame him. The article says that taxes were raised on those making over 1 million to reduce the deficit. Why should the most successful citizens be forced to pay for the deficit that was caused by government mismanagement of the budget?
    Yes, And I think he was quoted as believing this tax rate was a Socialist's government's way of "sanctioning" creativity.

    Uh huh. Tell that to Russian writers sent to Siberia.

    The man has confused paying what he can afford, getting to have a job that offers extroardinary "self-actualization" (and some other perks) with being punished. That's what makes him a navel-gazing a-hole. He's getting the long end of the stick coming and going in comparison to his countrymen and can't even see that.
    The armchair saddler
    Politically Pro-Cat


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  16. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by FalseImpression View Post
    Well, good riddance frankly. I am surprised he did not choose Switzerland or Monaco...
    He moved 1 mile over the French border into Belgium. The man can walk to all the France he wanted and not pay for it. That's why he didn't need to go further afield.
    The armchair saddler
    Politically Pro-Cat



  17. #37
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    With respect to the 85% tax rate. It certainly sounds unconscionable. But another emigre mentioned in that article was some dude worth $41 Billion.

    So here's my question: Once you have that much and paid 85% on your earnings per year, can you materially feel the difference between that and, say, 50% or even 30%?

    With astronomical numbers like these, I can't see what the uber-wealthy are worried about. Or is money not the issue but "the principal of the thing?" If you'll never feel the consequences of slightly better- or worse principals like overtaxation for you're bracket, why give a sh!t?
    The armchair saddler
    Politically Pro-Cat


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  18. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by mvp View Post
    So here's my question: Once you have that much and paid 85% on your earnings per year, can you materially feel the difference between that and, say, 50% or even 30%?
    I don't see how that's relevant. Why should we ask the wealthier amongst us to pay 85% in TAXES? How is that at all equitable? So what if the difference in their lifestyle between 80 and 50 percent gone to taxes is minimal? It's THEIR MONEY. They earned it.

    Where is the motivation to work hard, be successful, be prosperous, etc when you know that the majority of what you earn is going back into the pot to be spent how the gov't sees fit?

    I'm not wealthy AT ALL. So I don't really have a dog in the fight. But I think that it's absolutely insane to try to make all things equal from a living standard standpoint by taking 85% of someone's income to redistribute to others.
    A good horseman doesn't have to tell anyone...the horse already knows.

    Might be a reason, never an excuse...


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  19. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by mvp View Post
    So here's my question: Once you have that much and paid 85% on your earnings per year, can you materially feel the difference between that and, say, 50% or even 30%?
    The temporary French top rate is 75% applied on income of 1 million Euro and 45 percent band for revenues over 150,000 euros.

    So that really screws the 1-million Euro income vs. the 900,000 Euro income:

    Income (E) and the net after Tax
    1,000,000 with a net 250,000
    900,000 with a net 495,000

    That's a bummer for earning that extra 100,000 Euro .... the person/household now has almost 1/2 the net of the neighbor who was paid an amount just below the tax threshold.


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  20. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Glimmerglass View Post
    The temporary French top rate is 75% applied on income of 1 million Euro and 45 percent band for revenues over 150,000 euros.

    So that really screws the 1-million Euro income vs. the 900,000 Euro income:

    Income (E) and the net after Tax
    1,000,000 with a net 250,000
    900,000 with a net 495,000

    That's a bummer for earning that extra 100,000 Euro .... the person/household now has almost 1/2 the net of the neighbor who was paid an amount just below the tax threshold.
    The math is wrong here. The 75% tax rate is for the portion ABOVE 1 million Euros, not the whole 1 Million. It's a dumb policy, sure, but not that dumb

    For what it is worth, I think Gerard Depardieu, the LVMH guy, and all the rest are right to walk. Totally agree that it is a policy that penalizes success.


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