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  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bristol Bay View Post
    Keep your guns, Germany, bit that is some seditious bat$hit crazy talk.
    Nope - it's absolutely right. dressurpferd nailed it.
    In loving memory of Laura Jahnke.
    A life lived by example, done too soon.
    www.caringbridge.org/page/laurajahnke/


    2 members found this post helpful.

  2. #22
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    Oct. 28, 2007
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raymundo View Post
    I don't know that this is actually true. Other than Timothy McVeigh and the Unibomber, where are these people running trucks into elementary schools and movie theaters and poisoning people, etc.? Should we expect that if automatic weapons, handguns, etc. are banned, there will be a rise in chainsaw and car bomb might with a knife or chainsaw, the easy route.
    Right here is where they are. NYC being the number one terrorist target in the US, yes, they come up with ideas and attempts all the time. Thus our water supplies are now monitored, car bombs, fertilizer, planes, subway plots , oh and airplanes. As much as I don't know about rural living I know damn well about what attempts are made to kill us here in NYC. Just read the papers for the cases they have to tell us about because the plot was foiled in a public place.



  3. #23
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    Dec. 11, 2002
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    I don't want to debate with people whether or not gun control will stop these types of mass killings. My personal opinion is that it is too late. There are millions of guns in the US. And probably most people use them for hunting or sport shooting(target)
    I support hunting for food. Please don't tell me to go vegan. Most vegetables do make me physically ill. I eat meat. And I much prefer to know where it comes from, that it was a quick humane kill. I won't apologize for that.

    Yes, there are too many cases of gun violence. ONE case is too many. But the solution is not to take all guns from good people.

    I actually had an instance, many years ago, where I believe having a gun in my home saved me from being a victim of a violent crime.
    Lived in a small rural town, where we had no police. The town had actually voted them out! Nearest Police assistance was at least 20 minutes. And that was IF they were not already on a call.
    My SO worked midnights.. I was asleep, upstairs,in our two story home around 11:30 when I heard a knock at the door. NOT the door we used. And NOT the door friends and family would use. Still, it was a small town, where we knew most everyone. I'm not sure why I took the gun out of the nightstand (no children in our home,ever) but I did chamber a round,and went downstairs. Knocking continued and I asked "who is it?" A male replied "pizza man". OK, not only had I not ordered pizza, but there was not any pizza delivery available within a good ten miles of us. I said,through the door, "didn't order pizza". Then the guy rattled the doorknob, and I guess tried to force the door, because it shook. I backed away and yelled that I had a gun. The door shook again, and I pulled the curtain away from the smallish window near the door, and flipped the light on. Tall guy, no pizza box. I saw him, and he saw me, with the gun pointed and he ran. I called state police. 45 minutes later one officer arrived. There was no contact with them between initial call and arrival. They supposedly looked around and supposedly investigated by calling pizza places. They found nothing.
    After that, we purchased extra locks, and reinforced doors and windows. Also purchased inexpensive contact alarms for windows and doors.
    While I don't know the mans intentions for certain, I am certain they were not good. My belief is that he intended physical harm, because he knew the home he was trying to enter was occupied. I believe, that had I not been armed, I would likely not be here today.

    I know that many of you live in areas where you feel you can count on Police protection. But that is NOT REALITY for many people.
    I never, never want to hurt or kill someone. But, if I must, in order to save myself or a loved one, you can bet I will.


    Please, please stop fighting about guns being the issue, ( I concede their are flaws with the current regulations) and focus on how we, the good people of this Country can prevent such tragedies. Learn how we can be active in recognizing the mentally ill, and how we can help. Their needs to be change in how authorities, schools, hospitals etc react to concerns expressed by people. There needs to be REAL help for parents and teachers dealing with disturbed children and adults. Please read "I am Adam Lanzer's Mother" if you have not yet read it. My BIL could have been THAT GUY. He tortured animals. He threatened his family. His Mother slept with her other two children locked in a room, with a hatchet because no one would help her. Her Son was a smart, smart boy. Despite a serious brain injury when he was little, he had a genius IQ. But he was messed up. ( wonderful, normal child before he suffered a TBI, for what it's worth.). His Mom could not get help because he had no criminal record. And she could not financially afford for him to be institutionilised. Thankfully he did not take anyone with him when he ended his own life.

    Mental illness is VERY real, and even now,there is stigma attached, and so little help for families.

    Maybe THIS guy would have been unable to kill 20 little kids if he could not have obtained guns. MAYBE he would have killed his mother with a knife, bat, hatchet, cane. And MAYBE he would have only been able to kill one teacher and five kids if he used another weapon. Does that make it any less horrid? Not if one of those kids was yours.

    I am sorry that I went away from the topic, but I believe things are so much more complicated than a black and white stand on guns.

    We do have the power to do something positive. And it's not fighting for taking away all guns.
    It's fighting for intelligent regulation. It's fighting for help for ALL families with mentally ill members. Fighting to destroy the stigmatism of mental illness, and instead reach out a hand to help. And simply opening our eyes and realizing that it IS our responsibility to speak up BEFORE tragedies happen, instead of being the one on the news saying "yeah, I knew he was messed up cuz he used to torture animals".
    I\'m not crazy. I\'m just a little unwell.


    9 members found this post helpful.

  4. #24
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    Jul. 28, 2006
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    Sobriska, I don't think that any posters are saying BAN guns -- just limit their use. Restrict the semi's.

    You don't need a 30 clip to kill a deer. I'm from a family of hunters, we hunt regularly. If you need a 30 clip, you shouldn't be out hunting.


    12 members found this post helpful.

  5. #25
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    I lol at that mercedespony! Agree.
    But yes, plenty think that no citizens should be armed.
    People need to realize there are really vast and varied issues
    I\'m not crazy. I\'m just a little unwell.


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  6. #26
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    I was the one that originally asked this question, not because I don't think there are instances where it's truly helpful, but because there seem to be so FEW of them, and one of the ones presented was the one where the man with gun did NOT get it out for fear of hurting innocent bystanders.

    While guns may help people actually protect themselves instead of gleefully shooting at a burgler running away, I don't think most people really need them to "protect themselves." And, how many cases are there like Trayvon Martin where someone uses the stand your ground law to pretend to "get" the criminal? How many cases like that does it take before it's not OK?

    Can you imagine dressurpferd on some self-righteous imagined crusade thinking he needs to start a bloodbath to protect his rights. (And, yes, that IS bats##t crazy to say things like this.)

    And, the step that is missing in this question that I asked, once you have worked your way through these is, WHY in the hell would ANYONE need an automatic weapon for this purpose? If you can justify a gun for protection, where do the insane killing machines come in?


    4 members found this post helpful.

  7. #27
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    Feb. 21, 2009
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    I don't think this can be a strictly gun issue or strictly mental illness issue or whatever neat package people want to put it in. In my (humble) opinion, I think there are a plethora of issues going on here. Guns, mental illness, media, the list goes on and on and on. As a teacher and a human, I so badly wish there was one "right" answer but I don't think there is.

    I do think it's great that people are talking about it, but I want people to keep talking long after the spotlight is gone. I was approximately 30 miles away from the Chardon shooting last year and many of the same issues came up. They came up after VA Tech. However, after the media leaves, so many people go (rightly) back to living their lives and it seems we forget these conversations. I wish there was a stronger way to keep this conversation going.
    No hour of life is wasted that is spent in the saddle. ~Winston Churchill
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  8. #28
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    OP. I don't think anyone NEEDS automatic weapons for self defense/protection at home.

    I understand the rational for the gun activists. That ANY control is stripping away rights. I don't agree with the level some take it to.

    And I know, that these little stories that many people have, where being armed may have saved their life are not often told outside of a small circle of family and friends. They are certainly not sensationalized the way mass killings are. The public, the media doesn't want to make these instances newsworthy. No one died? No hours long standoffs with police? No car chases? HO Humm, no one cares.

    I agree that there is no easy answer. What I wish for is people on both sides of the gun debate to realize its a foolish fight. That its not so black and white, and their are SO many other factors that play into stopping such horrible and senseless killings. I wish for common ground and common sense. Putting radical views aside and working together for real solutions.
    I\'m not crazy. I\'m just a little unwell.


    4 members found this post helpful.

  9. #29
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    Sep. 4, 2006
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    Quote Originally Posted by mercedespony View Post
    Sobriska, I don't think that any posters are saying BAN guns -- just limit their use. Restrict the semi's.

    You don't need a 30 clip to kill a deer. I'm from a family of hunters, we hunt regularly. If you need a 30 clip, you shouldn't be out hunting.
    The 2nd amendment has ZERO to do with hunting, stop using that asinine, absurd argument.

    The groups behind the anti-gun push most certainly do want to completely disarm the American public.

    BTDT, if you think it's "batsh*t crazy" to defend your rights, well, I have nothing to say to you, we have less than zero in common as American citizens.


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  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by dressurpferd01 View Post
    Any legislation that approaches anything close to confiscation WILL result in bloodshed and quite possibly another civil war. There are a lot of us gun owners out there who simply will NOT allow our rights to be further infringed.
    Yep. THIS is bats##t crazy and should get you on a watch list. You think people will come and confiscate your weapons and there will be a civil war because you think the right to a well-armed milita means it's about you having a machine gun? That has nothing to do with your "civil rights." And talking about killing people and a civil war because you think owning a gun is more important than anything else is just . . . plain . . . scary.

    Yeah, the "groups" want to completely disarm the public. What "groups" are these? Where are they? Do you have any actual evidence of this besides your imagination and paranoia? Not ONE person in here has even broached banning all guns because it's STUPID because it's impossible if nothing else.


    5 members found this post helpful.

  11. #31
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    Sep. 24, 2004
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sobriska View Post
    OP. I don't think anyone NEEDS automatic weapons for self defense/protection at home.
    Sobriska ... What is an automatic weapon? There is a Federal gov't definition and there is the definition used by anti gun groups. Which is yours?


    2 members found this post helpful.

  12. #32
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    Hmm...guess I'm Batshit crazy too.

    Yes, there are groups that want to ban all guns. To pretend they don't exist is naive at best.

    I'm guessing our founding fathers were probably on the "watch lists" of the day, as their peers probably considered them "armed and dangerous." A lot of people refuse to be forcibly disarmed. Count me among them too. There is so much wrong with a nation that cannot fight BACK against tyranny.
    Sorry to see xtranormal is gone
    For funnies, search youtube for horseyninjawarrior!

    Www.caringbridge.org/visit/mysecretgarden


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  13. #33
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    Yeah, there are groups that protest at miltary funerals saying it's god will because we let gays marry and that think the world is flat, too. You will find some "group" that says anything. That's a WHOLE different thing than an real threat, and ONE MORE TIME, NO ONE in here even mentioned banning all guns. To pretend this is a real threat is naive at best.

    I'm sure the Founding Fathers were on watch lists for the British. So? They didn't protest about fake threats to "security" and think it is tyranny to take away automatic weapons and have discussions about what the hell is wrong with so many people having so much fire power when SO many innocent people are dying.

    Hystrionics and paranoid fears are the mindset of people who take automatic weapons into schools and movie theaters to kill all the tyrannists.


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  14. #34
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    Jun. 25, 2004
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    BTDT - The FF's were considered traitors by the British Crown. There were bountys on their heads. Their families were harassed and chased by the British troops, read Cokie Robert's The Founding Mothers.

    The problem is not with weapons, it with the people who use them. When I was in HS. 1970's, most folks had a weapon either in the glove box or in the PU gun rack.
    Let us discuss the difference in people between then and now. For starters most people were out doing things instead of sitting in front of computers. There was less sugar in our diet. Kids with too much energy either cleaned house, did yard work or played outside instead of receiving medication.

    Your choice, discuss the problem or continue to rant and call others crazy.
    "Never do anything that you have to explain twice to the paramedics."
    Courtesy my cousin Tim


    4 members found this post helpful.

  15. #35
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    Oct. 28, 2008
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    Quote Originally Posted by jherold View Post
    If he wasn't able to get a gun, he would have used fertilizer or cleaning products to make a bomb or he would have driven his car through the front of the building loaded with gasoline or grabbed a chain saw or poisoned the water supply... There are more ways to create carnage than there are ways to prevent it. Banning the tools isn't going to stop it.
    Yeah, we (in the UK) have lots of deranged people driving cars into buildings, wielding chainsaws.

    Not.


    5 members found this post helpful.

  16. #36
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    Yeah. I know. I teach American history. What does that have to do with anything? Again, you think the FF would have been all for automatic weapons for civilians for "protection?" Don't think so.

    I'm not ranting. I'm repeating what dressur said and repeated what somewhat else said. I have been discussing some of the MANY issues, and of COURSE it's not just guns. The problem is when people say crazy things like there's going to be a bloodbath if you try to take my guns away from me when no one is saying that.

    You can pretend it's all about "groups" trying to take all your guns away and that's the big problem, or you can act like an adult and know that we need to try to figure out what we need to do in MANY areas--guns, media, how we raise our kids, what we value, lack of support for mentally ill people, etc.


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  17. #37
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    Just in case you didn't catch it on the other thread, here's one of the many things I've talked about:

    "I agree Calena, it's not just guns. There is something really wrong with our culture. I'm still wrestling with the boy who has lived across the street from me for 12 years who strangled and murdered a woman they worked for occasionally because they wanted to rob her and she didn't leave the house. When she wasn't dead, they made sure to kill her, then went out to lunch. Another neighbor told me she heard his father ask what he had done when the cops filled our block--he said he killed her. I've seen this kid outside maybe 10 times in 12 years. I know they play video games all of the time.

    I don't think it's just guns, but the easy access and the super high kill ones. I don't think it's just video games, but the slow deadening of sensitivity to and training to kill for fun. (The commercial for some video game where people on the street are playing with each other and killing each other shocks me.) I don't think it's just the easy access to the media and sensationalism, but the constant barrage that is changing the way kids brains are being wired.

    We have so much STUFF now, we appreciate so little, and don't connect to people. SO many of these kids have grown up with little interaction with others, and it's normal because there are other ways to interact. Their brains are wired differently. I see it as I teach. These kids will be there an hour before school wandering and texting, but not do homework. As one mother said, she can type 250 words a night on her cel phone, but she can't manage 250 twice a week for a journal.

    I don't know. I'm rambling. But I think it's a bunch of these things. It used to be an embarrassment to be a drunken tramp--now you get a reality show and become a millionaire. It's almost the end of that line of thought--any avenue of people talking about you has become a good thing. When we've got adults supposedly running our country ranting on about the sanctity of life and how is more important than a living human being who then turn around and demand we kill people all over the world and spend all of our money on military, do you wonder why we have a generation of kids who have no concept of morality?"


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  18. #38
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    Dec. 17, 2012
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    Quote Originally Posted by alittlegray View Post
    Hmm...guess I'm Batshit crazy too.

    Yes, there are groups that want to ban all guns. To pretend they don't exist is naive at best.

    I'm guessing our founding fathers were probably on the "watch lists" of the day, as their peers probably considered them "armed and dangerous." A lot of people refuse to be forcibly disarmed. Count me among them too. There is so much wrong with a nation that cannot fight BACK against tyranny.
    How many times in the last two centuries have the American people fought tyranny?


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  19. #39
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    [QUOTE=Xmas;6724917]How many times in the last two centuries have the

    After the American Revolution, the 2nd Revolution aka the War of 1812. The last century - 2 World Wars with Germany as the main agressor. These are the non-debatable wars. One could make arguements regarding other conflicts.
    "Never do anything that you have to explain twice to the paramedics."
    Courtesy my cousin Tim


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  20. #40
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    BTDT - Gun control laws took off after John Hinckley tried to kill Reagan and severly damaged Mr. Brady. Mrs. Brady has lobbied for stronger and stronger gun control since then. I understand her stance and she has my greatest condolences.

    Tonight I watched ETV programming - 1st was a 1 hour on Mental Health reform and the ADA. Reminded me of the horrors associated with "mental hospitals". Patients were released, but nothing was really put into place to protect them and those around them. This is part of the path that brought us to last Friday.
    2nd was Tavis Smiley - really good show tonight, nothing to do with this shooting.
    3rd was BBC newscast - nearly half of the newscast was about the shootings and how Australia disarmed in the 1990's. Much discussion of how to get the US to do the same.
    4th was Charlie Rose. Interviewd Bloomberg who is very anti-gun and is working hard to enact stricter gun laws nationwide. Next was a round table who discussed, again, stronger gun laws as well as how to talk Americans into turning in their weapons.
    So there are people both inside and outside the US who want to restrict gun ownership/use or completely disarm everyone.

    You teach American History yet you don't seem to have a good grasp on our FF. They put their lives and the lives of their families on the line to start this country. They presented the idea that people could govern themselves instead of requiring a monarch. They wrote the Constitution and the first 10 Amendments in such a fashion as to hold true no matter the era or advancements.
    I find the argument of FF vs 'automatic' weapons to be silly. What do you think the FF would think of current TV programing in regards to freedom of speech? They didn't envision telephones, movies, TV, cell phones with cameras, instant transmission of any and everything. How long did it take to notify the 'civilized' world of the "The Shot Heard Round The World", today it would be know in minutes.
    If speech is protected in all available formats, then all weapons are also protected. After all how many communication tools do you really, really need?
    In my opinion - as many as you want and can afford.
    Any how is very late on the east coast and I have to be at work in a few hours. Good Night
    "Never do anything that you have to explain twice to the paramedics."
    Courtesy my cousin Tim


    1 members found this post helpful.

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