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  1. #1
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    Default **UPDATE ** please give your opinions on these two guys!

    **UPDATE**

    Soooo, I bought the second horse. I went to look at him and he was absolutely beautiful. And his temperament was AMAZING. He was so kind and sweet and willing, we just had to bring him home. His legs are honestly not that bad in person, a little upright but they didn't seem to impede him at all. His mind more than made up for it. He raced last week and is still a stallion, but could be led right out of his stall and walked all the way to the trailer parked far away with no chain and zero fuss. Walked through big water puddles like a champ. Nothing fazed him. When unloaded at his new barn, he walked straight out of the trailer, looked around very calmly and curiously though it was raining, and went right into his stall. Didn't even worry or whinny once but went straight to rolling all over his shavings and eating. He is a GREAT boy, really solid citizen. I have high hopes for him so we'll see how he turns out! Thanks for all your opinions guys, so helpful in forming my own opinions of these guys!

    Is anyone at all familiar with any of the names closer up on his pedigree? He's not bred to the nines or anything, but I would love to find out more about his lineage. Or be recommended where to look to find out more. Thanks

    Here's a viedo of the boy moving in his new home:

    http://youtu.be/pU0HNDQSh6M

    Here's the boy:

    http://i50.tinypic.com/351xvud.jpg

    http://i47.tinypic.com/ws6jl.jpg

    Here's the PEDIGREE:

    http://www.equineline.com/Free-5X-Pe...number=8987343
    Last edited by Levade; Dec. 18, 2012 at 12:19 AM.


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  2. #2
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    Midland, NC, USA
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    Love the pedigree--slew, buckpasser, swaps, secretariat; lot of mr P, dunno if Woodman was one of the sounder lines but the rest is far back-- and look of #1 A bit thick in the throat latch, still a stud or cut late? But what a neck! You'll have plenty of real estate in front of you.

    Second horse is cute, neckset a little lower, kinda straight in the hock, and wish his head matched the rest of him, pose isn't great but worth a look.

    Jennifer


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  3. #3
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    Dec. 12, 2004
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    The second is much more my type, although he looks young and needs a bunch of muscling in that butt of his. The first guy has had a disservice done to him with the awkward photo angle, but I'm sure he will clean up/grow up nice. Again, might just be the photo angle or the couple drinks I've had () but I think I see something on his left front...slight bow?

    Also...apart from just a general soundness check, which we cannot see from the photos...you need to consider heart and desire more than conformation when we're talking upper level eventing. (Or really, any discipline.) You want to have all the basic parts there, of course, to make things a little easier on the horse, but you also want that horse to WANT to get you around the course safe and clean, and have either the competitive drive or desire to please the rider to be at the upper levels. I think you need to do away with the idea of your "perfect upper level prospect" and just find a decently-put together (ie, nothing is glaringly wrong) sound horse that you can work with and see where you go.

    I don't know if you're near Fingerlakes at all, but if I were looking for an upper-level prospect (already have one from last year's meet, who I think is going to turn out really special if I can just manage the finances and time to get her there) here are some guys I'd consider:

    http://fingerlakesfinesttbs.com/ostins-miracle/
    http://fingerlakesfinesttbs.com/lett...6-1-grey-mare/
    http://fingerlakesfinesttbs.com/evils-brother-2/
    http://fingerlakesfinesttbs.com/stay...k-bay-gelding/

    The similarities? They all, at first glance, look even and balanced. You can critique individual parts of a horse all you want, but a great place to start is to just look at the picture and go "Yup, that looks right." (Although there are plenty of "fuglies" doing quite well at upper levels!) For the ones with video clips, they all have correct gaits....as long as you've got correctness, you've got room to improve. And, this is just my personal preference, but they all are on looser leads, and just content to go along with the program. At the same time they're not dead heads. Just a 30-second video clip tells me "Yup, looks like this horse will be reasonable to work with." And you can get pretty far with "reasonable."


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  4. #4
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    Jul. 26, 2012
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    Thanks Thirdcharm! Yes, the was gelded only a couple of weeks ago, so the neck should thin out I'm thinking. The second is actually still a stallion! I was thinking he could still grow a little more uphill, he's only 3 so who knows. What do you mean about the head though? That it's too large?

    Quote Originally Posted by GoForAGallop View Post
    The second is much more my type, although he looks young and needs a bunch of muscling in that butt of his. The first guy has had a disservice done to him with the awkward photo angle, but I'm sure he will clean up/grow up nice. Again, might just be the photo angle or the couple drinks I've had () but I think I see something on his left front...slight bow?

    Also...apart from just a general soundness check, which we cannot see from the photos...you need to consider heart and desire more than conformation when we're talking upper level eventing. (Or really, any discipline.) You want to have all the basic parts there, of course, to make things a little easier on the horse, but you also want that horse to WANT to get you around the course safe and clean, and have either the competitive drive or desire to please the rider to be at the upper levels. I think you need to do away with the idea of your "perfect upper level prospect" and just find a decently-put together (ie, nothing is glaringly wrong) sound horse that you can work with and see where you go.

    I don't know if you're near Fingerlakes at all, but if I were looking for an upper-level prospect (already have one from last year's meet, who I think is going to turn out really special if I can just manage the finances and time to get her there) here are some guys I'd consider:

    http://fingerlakesfinesttbs.com/ostins-miracle/
    http://fingerlakesfinesttbs.com/lett...6-1-grey-mare/
    http://fingerlakesfinesttbs.com/evils-brother-2/
    http://fingerlakesfinesttbs.com/stay...k-bay-gelding/

    The similarities? They all, at first glance, look even and balanced. You can critique individual parts of a horse all you want, but a great place to start is to just look at the picture and go "Yup, that looks right." (Although there are plenty of "fuglies" doing quite well at upper levels!) For the ones with video clips, they all have correct gaits....as long as you've got correctness, you've got room to improve. And, this is just my personal preference, but they all are on looser leads, and just content to go along with the program. At the same time they're not dead heads. Just a 30-second video clip tells me "Yup, looks like this horse will be reasonable to work with." And you can get pretty far with "reasonable."
    Thanks GoForAGallop. This will be my first horse, so I think I have a case of "thisneedstobeperfect-itis." And I am a perfectionist in general But I definitely agree with you, and thank you for the advice. I WISH I lived near the FingerLakes Listing--I would be all over that and the happiest person ever. I'm all the way on the other coast, unfortunately. There's lots of racehorses here too, but not as easily accessible as made by Fingerlakes.

    The first horse is shot at a funky angle though--this head and neck seem huge. But you can decently see his other parts so it works for the moment! Some of these horses are far too, so it adds an additional obstacle to navigate.

    ETA: I'm a crazy post-editor, so excuse me if I edit my post around on you!
    Last edited by Levade; Dec. 13, 2012 at 10:46 PM.


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  5. #5
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    Don't like the first horse at all. He is out of proportion, with a huge long neck and a small and short back and butt.

    If you put your hand over the back half and ask yourself, "what kind of back and butt would expect to be attached to this front end?", your answer will NOT be the back half he has. (Same with putting your hand over his font end andguessing what head and neck would go with his barrel and butt.)

    He also does not have any depth through his heart girth and lungs. He is sausage shaped. He does not look athletic to me.

    The second horse is quite nice. He is balanced and athletic looking. But, if you get a 3 year old OTTB, be ready to wait a while until he is mature enough and trained enough for you to start competing on him.

    Mr. Prospector is no gift to the sport horse world. He has never been responsible for a good sport horse. If he is in the pedigree of a good sport horse, look at who he was bred to -- the mare and her pedigree should get the credit. That is why Fappiano is a valuable sport horse influence. Not because his sire was Mr. P, but because his dam was by Dr. Fager.

    Fappiano also got his body style from his female line which is good because Mr. P was not a good looking horse. Nor was he correct.

    You have not mentioned the names of these horses, so I can't comment on their pedigrees.

    Have you "liked" New Voacations on FB? They have a continuing stream of nice OTTB's and the price is right -- between $200 - $600.
    "Dyslexics Untie!"


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  6. #6
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    Jul. 26, 2012
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    Thanks Lord Helpus!

    Here is the pedigree of the second:

    http://www.equineline.com/Free-5X-Pe...number=8987343

    I have to check if New Vocations is based near me, I thought CANTER was the only big one near me.

    And yes, the last horse I looked at turned out to have terrible legs. Maybe it was the Mr. Prospector, maybe not, but it was very disappointing because he was a really athletic guy with a great topline.

    I definitely don't mind taking my time and going slow with a baby, I can really adjust my riding timeline to any age. Both horses are 3 but the 2nd one is a little butt-high at 16hh. Do you think he might grow past 16.1? That would be unfortunate for me.
    Last edited by Levade; Dec. 14, 2012 at 12:54 AM.


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  7. #7
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    Dec. 12, 2004
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    Massachusetts
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    Quote Originally Posted by Levade View Post

    I definitely don't mind taking my time and going slow with a baby, I can really adjust my riding timeline to any age. Both horses are 3 but the 2nd one is a little butt-high at 16hh. Do you think he might grow past 16.1? That would be unfortunate for me.
    I went and looked at that guy's video and I like him. I do think he is going to bulk out/up to be bigger than you want, though.

    Are you not looking at mares? I LOVE this lady:
    http://www.canterusa.org/index.php?o...ings&Itemid=61

    And this guy:
    http://www.canterusa.org/index.php?o...ngs&Itemid=281

    And then I went back and watched the little mare again and I REALLY like her. She is likely a young three, and definitely has some growing to do, and looks like a baby. But then you watch her video and she looks like she is a much larger horse with her movement...she has a presence. And a little bit of baby mare sass, which works out to a good thing in the event horse, usually.



  8. #8
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    Aug. 4, 2009
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    The 1st one will always look like that..its the Woodman look and having had geldings and Stallions w/ that pedigree is not hormones.

    The second one is adorable and would need to see him move on those rather long upright pasturns before I made a descion...what do you call pricey for OTTB @ that track...


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  9. #9
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    Apr. 20, 2009
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    This guy caught my eye:

    http://fingerlakesfinesttbs.com/raynicks-token/

    Beautifully built and lasted 4 years on the track with 48 starts. The ad doesn't mention that he's retiring sound, but the price sure implies it. Lovely head, kind eye, nice shoulder and rump. The pasterns say he'll be comfy, and a few good trims will get the angle where it belongs.

    And at 5 he still has a whole future ahead (and the 3 year sillies are over).

    If only I were shopping . . .

    edited to add: I know the Mr P folks will chime in, but if he can race 48 times I think it's probably a non-issue (just MHO)
    "Drawing on my fine command of the English language, I said nothing" - Robert Benchley
    Buildingthegrove.blogspot
    The Grove at Five Points


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  10. #10
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    ^ That horse was discussed in a thread on off course. I believe he had a knee chip but was still racing.

    ETA:
    http://www.chronofhorse.com/forum/sh...unter-Prospect



  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by judybigredpony View Post

    The second one is adorable and would need to see him move on those rather long upright pasturns before I made a descion...
    I have to agree. Neither of those first two horses would make me jump in a car to go see them in person. Could be a bad photo angle of the first, but . . .

    The second one is very handsome but those legs; with those high hocks; on those pasterns; that would be a no for me. It also looks like we can't blame the pastern angle on a bad trim job, either. Probably a wonderful guy for a different career than what you want.
    "Drawing on my fine command of the English language, I said nothing" - Robert Benchley
    Buildingthegrove.blogspot
    The Grove at Five Points



  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beam Me Up View Post
    ^ That horse was discussed in a thread on off course. I believe he had a knee chip but was still racing.

    ETA:
    http://www.chronofhorse.com/forum/sh...unter-Prospect
    Thanks for the link. Wonder if she ever got the PPE? Must be a fairly innocuous chip if he is racing sound on it, but would probably be a negotiating point on price. I think he is just eye-candy.
    "Drawing on my fine command of the English language, I said nothing" - Robert Benchley
    Buildingthegrove.blogspot
    The Grove at Five Points



  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by judybigredpony View Post
    The 1st one will always look like that..its the Woodman look and having had geldings and Stallions w/ that pedigree is not hormones.

    The second one is adorable and would need to see him move on those rather long upright pasturns before I made a descion...what do you call pricey for OTTB @ that track...
    If you check my second post, there is a link to a mare...if you back up a step to the listings, you can see a video from the second guy in her post. I personally think he's worth a look in person, funky angles or no.



  14. #14
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    I agree, major long upright pasterns in both horses ... also seem light boned to me, weaker hind ends, and not as balanced as you could find. On the horse with the four socks, it looks like he has a high/low situation up front, with the "high" foot having a possible club (RF) and the "low" foot having an underslung heel (LF). I can tell you from personal experience that this can be difficult to manage and cause a variety of nagging lameness issues.

    Where do you live? Have you tried Stacey (Camalou) she posts on here .... in north Florida near Ocala. She selects some nice eventing types off the track.


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  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by GoForAGallop View Post
    If you check my second post, there is a link to a mare...if you back up a step to the listings, you can see a video from the second guy in her post. I personally think he's worth a look in person, funky angles or no.
    I didn't find the video but did see his price.......the 15H filly will be 4 in 2 weeks and while she may well grow more she just looks to be a small filly...and unless its a keeper may be a tough re-sell.
    Prices here in the Mid-Atlantic at tracks usually will fall as colder weather arrives


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  16. #16
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    That last horse on the FL's list looks coon-footed behind to me.

    Pasterns, long cannons and neck sets would take most of these out for me before I even got to the engine behind.



  17. #17
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    I don't think you can tell about the first one. The way the photo is shot...his hindend is further away from the camera than the front and it makes the proportions seem off.

    Go look at them in person if you can.
    ** The difference between genius and stupidity is genius has its limits. -- Albert Einstein **


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  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by judybigredpony View Post
    I didn't find the video but did see his price.......the 15H filly will be 4 in 2 weeks and while she may well grow more she just looks to be a small filly...and unless its a keeper may be a tough re-sell.
    Prices here in the Mid-Atlantic at tracks usually will fall as colder weather arrives
    Oh, yup, if she's really that old I wouldn't put too much faith into her growing much more.

    Here is the video for the second OP gelding: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8CH5R...ature=youtu.be
    The prices on most of the horses seem high. OP: any reason in particular you want an OTTB? For $4k in my area you can find something that's already been around a course a few times, nevermind let down/restarted....prices must be different in CA?


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  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by GoForAGallop View Post
    Oh, yup, if she's really that old I wouldn't put too much faith into her growing much more.

    Here is the video for the second OP gelding: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8CH5R...ature=youtu.be
    The prices on most of the horses seem high. OP: any reason in particular you want an OTTB? For $4k in my area you can find something that's already been around a course a few times, nevermind let down/restarted....prices must be different in CA?

    For the few steps you could actually see he looks to be a ..lovely..mover!!!


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  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by judybigredpony View Post
    For the few steps you could actually see he looks to be a ..lovely..mover!!!
    I agree, and that's why I cautioned the OP that you can hold up rulers to horses all day long, and predict future soundness and potential, but sometimes you just end up with a horse who really knows how to work what they've got, regardless of any other factors.


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