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  1. #21
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    May. 28, 2006
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    Thanks for the link, Catersun. This is why I want to move to TX. If it hits the fan, at least I'll be in good company
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    2 members found this post helpful.

  2. #22
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    Dec. 10, 2012
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kinsella View Post
    I'm not anti-gun. I own one. I AM anti military assault weapon owned by Joe Q. Public. Sorry, but no one outside of active military or police needs to own an assault rifle. NO ONE.
    You have no earthly idea what an assault rifle is or is not

    Let me take a look at your life and I will decide what you need or don't need. And I won't be limiting myself to firearms.


    4 members found this post helpful.

  3. #23
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    Dec. 10, 2012
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bells View Post
    And in our crazy world, if the principal had a firearm in the school and had killed the shooter, you know that now she would be facing charges.
    LOL....Where do you people come up with insane stuff like this?



  4. #24
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    Dec. 12, 2005
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    Myrtle Beach, SC
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    There is footage of an armed senior citizen putting a fast stop to an armed robbery of a casino by shooting the two assailants caught by multiple survalince camera angles- but I can't find a link I will post it tonight when my DH gets home. LOTS of cases of armed legal citizens protecting themselves and others, but since it isn't sensational the media never takes it and runs with it.
    If i'm posting on Coth, it's either raining so I can't ride or it's night time and I can't sleep.


    3 members found this post helpful.

  5. #25
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    Apr. 20, 2011
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kinsella View Post
    I'm not anti-gun. I own one. I AM anti military assault weapon owned by Joe Q. Public. Sorry, but no one outside of active military or police needs to own an assault rifle. NO ONE.
    THIS.


    3 members found this post helpful.

  6. #26
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    Dec. 12, 2005
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    Myrtle Beach, SC
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    http://www.guncite.com/swissgun-kopel.html

    This is an interesting article for anyone interested in how more guns works in reducing the crime rate. It's how switzerlands gun control laws work. I have not fact checked it personally, so I take no responcibility about it's accuracy, but it was an interesting read.
    If i'm posting on Coth, it's either raining so I can't ride or it's night time and I can't sleep.


    2 members found this post helpful.

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by caballero View Post
    LOL....Where do you people come up with insane stuff like this?
    Uh, because it's true.

    Do you remember the story over the summer about the man who found a family friend in his house, molesting his 4 y/0 daughter? The dad pulled the man off, fought with him, ended up hitting the man so many times that the man died. People were afraid the dad would face charges.
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    1 members found this post helpful.

  8. #28
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    people say that kind of stuff because they don't know or understand the laws pertaining to the use of lethal force in defending themselves or another.

    That man may have faced charges because he kept beating him after the threat to the child ended. Had he found him and shot him it would have been in defense of another. The other problem is the laws are all different from state to state. Here in SC we have what is call the Castle doctrine, I can be ANYWHERE on my property and if I am in fear for my life, the assailent has the means, motive adn opurtunity to kill or cause grave bodily injury I have the right to defend myself using deadly force. That is not true in every state.
    If i'm posting on Coth, it's either raining so I can't ride or it's night time and I can't sleep.


    2 members found this post helpful.

  9. #29
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    Dec. 10, 2012
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    Quote Originally Posted by talkofthetown View Post
    Uh, because it's true.

    Do you remember the story over the summer about the man who found a family friend in his house, molesting his 4 y/0 daughter? The dad pulled the man off, fought with him, ended up hitting the man so many times that the man died. People were afraid the dad would face charges.
    Thousands of people every year kill someone else in legitimate self defense and face NO charges because the situation is pretty clear cut, unlike your example.

    In your example, the line got crossed once the sexual assault was stopped but the beating continued. Then it is no longer self defense of a third party but assault and battery. And if the rapist did continue to fight with the father, then the father is legally justified in continuing to use force to defend himself until the threat is stopped. And sometimes it takes killing your opponent to make the threat stop.

    There is ALWAYS a risk of being charged and having to defend oneself in court in the aftermath of a self defense fight that ends in the death of the assailant. I know that and so does most everyone who has decided to use force, including deadly force, when the law allows and conditions warrant it. We minimize the risk by being aware of our surroundings, avoiding confrontation whenever possible (even more so when we are armed) and if a confrontation needs to happen, take all actions to make sure we are the defender and not the aggressor.

    If someone at that school had shot that scumbag dead, there would hardly be a more clear case of justifiable homicide in the entire history of US jurisprudence. Maybe some prosecutor without two brain cells to rub together might want to charge the defender for having possession of a firearm in a school zone, but I doubt anyone would be that dumb.

    The lack of knowledge of both firearms and self defense laws in this forum is simply staggering. And rather than seek information and knowledge, people just spew ignorance as if it were truth.......


    1 members found this post helpful.

  10. #30
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    Jul. 11, 2004
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bells View Post
    And in our crazy world, if the principal had a firearm in the school and had killed the shooter, you know that now she would be facing charges.
    Better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6...no jury would ever convict her.
    "Sic Gorgiamus Allos Subjectatos Nunc"


    6 members found this post helpful.

  11. #31
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    Nov. 6, 2002
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    Henrico, NC 36 30'50.49" N 77 50'17.47" W
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    Quote Originally Posted by hosspuller View Post
    Tom .. thank for your post... I disagree with your idiot characterization of folks buying high capacity magazines though. They have been vindicated in history. 1994 comes to mind.
    Yeah, I phrased that less than the best. I own a number of big clips too, but didn't rush out to buy more because I was worried about laws being passed this week. (For those that don't shoot, it takes MANY rounds to get really proficient, and being able to shoot 30 or 50 rounds before you have to reload really does speed up the process of becoming really proficient) I'm not sure I would be too far off on the classification for anyone who runs out to buy more big clips after such a tragedy.

    Also, if the shooter is someone who isn't really good at what they are doing, like the past two who used AR's, having a big clip mostly increases the probability that the gun will jamb. It looks like they could both have gotten off more rounds if they had pockets full of 10 round clips. The guns would have had enough time to cool between reloads even withouth them knowing what they were doing.


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  12. #32
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    Alright, not the best example, my apologies. I just don't think that "stuff" is "insane", I think that unfortunately it's true. Obviously, no one would try to blame the teacher if she had shot the killer. But to me, it's a sad state that possible charges would even come up in someone's mind.
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  13. #33
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    Oct. 25, 2012
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    Default Think you're "trained?" Really?

    Quote Originally Posted by Maude View Post
    To simplify, a fully automatic weapon continues to fire as long as you hold your finger on the trigger. A semi-automatic weapon fires once for each trigger pull, therefore you must pull the trigger for each discharge. I believe that fully automatic weapons are banned, but unfortunately, I am sure parts can be obtained to convert a semi-auto into a fully auto.

    If we need a ban it should be on Ninja/warrior type games and movies that these kids are playing and watching that glorify death and killing. What are we telling these children, people? FWIW, I have my CCDW and have been considering getting a personal handgun. After this senseless tragedy, I am even more compelled to do so and become proficient in it's use. My husband is retired law enforcement and we periodically go to the range. If the Principal (God rest her and a true hero) had had a handgun and was trained to use it perhaps some of those dear children would still be here for Christmas.
    People who think that "periodically going to the range" equals the civilian ability to take down an active shooter on a rampage are sorely mistaken. That's a fantasy sold to us by Hollywood.

    The plain truth is that in these situations most people absolutely freeze. It is common to lose bladder control or worse. In a full-bore adrenaline dump (sympathetic nervous system arousal), the first thing to go is fine-motor control. You'd be lucky to even be able to fish your gun out of your holster and then stare stupidly at the safety catch. Just ask someone who's just been in a scary traffic accident how many tries it took them to speed-dial their cell phone. Same exact thing.

    Combat-ready military and police personnel train specifically to be able to function in these high-stress situations by learning teachniques to tactically manage their own adrenaline response. This involves regularly undergoing high-stress drills under simulated combat conditions, on which they are scored on their readiness and performance. True capability can only be built with many, many regular repetitions of this type of training. A certain level of fitness, both physical and mental, is also an important component.

    The average civilian doesn't even know what I'm talking about, and that's why they have no business owning semi-automatic weapons. The very presence of the thing is a wreck waiting to happen. The guns in the Newtown massacre were legally purchased and registered for "sporting" purposes. Cabinets and trigger guards might protect small children, not keep the weapons from mentally deranged adults.

    It's past time we put some serious money into seeking out the causes of why we have so many screwed-up people now to begin with; is it dietary, endocrine, developmental, genetic, media-related, what? I do concur with the poster above that the seductive alternate "realities" of video games and social media are a place we should investigate. Some forms of "entertainment," "art" or "free expression" may just be too costly in human terms. We ban such things a child pornography for that very reason.

    Then we need to work out intelligent management practices to keep these damaged minds from becoming a hazard to themselves and others. Obviously common sense would dictate denying them access to deadly weapons in the home. Mental health authorities need to take seriously a parent's inability to manage such a scenario, and there need to be far easier procedures to have such a youth hospitalized or "committed" for the family and public's safety.

    When the Second Amendment was passed, we were a nation of outdoorsmen--farmers, ranchers, people living on the edge of a contested frontier. That is not who we are now, any more than we write with quill pens or drive Conestoga wagons. And we have proven this time that arming suburbia to the teeth is one "freedom" we just can't handle.

    I say this as a lifetime gun owner.


    3 members found this post helpful.

  14. #34
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    Sep. 4, 2006
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    Quote Originally Posted by caballero View Post
    LOL....Where do you people come up with insane stuff like this?
    Under current federal law, carrying in a school is a federal felony. Until the gun free zone bullsh*t goes away, that's the way it is.


    3 members found this post helpful.

  15. #35
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    Jul. 14, 2000
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    NM
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    A teacher, with a gun on school property - federal offense. I don't believe one would be convicted in a case such as this but one sure would face charges.

    http://minnesota.cbslocal.com/2011/0...hool-property/

    http://www.news9.com/story/19809817/...-gun-to-school


    1 members found this post helpful.

  16. #36
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    Dec. 10, 2012
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lady Eboshi View Post
    People who think that "periodically going to the range" equals the civilian ability to take down an active shooter on a rampage are sorely mistaken. That's a fantasy sold to us by Hollywood.

    The plain truth is that in these situations most people absolutely freeze. It is common to lose bladder control or worse. In a full-bore adrenaline dump (sympathetic nervous system arousal), the first thing to go is fine-motor control. You'd be lucky to even be able to fish your gun out of your holster and then stare stupidly at the safety catch. Just ask someone who's just been in a scary traffic accident how many tries it took them to speed-dial their cell phone. Same exact thing.

    Combat-ready military and police personnel train specifically to be able to function in these high-stress situations by learning teachniques to tactically manage their own adrenaline response. This involves regularly undergoing high-stress drills under simulated combat conditions, on which they are scored on their readiness and performance. True capability can only be built with many, many regular repetitions of this type of training. A certain level of fitness, both physical and mental, is also an important component.

    The average civilian doesn't even know what I'm talking about, and that's why they have no business owning semi-automatic weapons. The very presence of the thing is a wreck waiting to happen. The guns in the Newtown massacre were legally purchased and registered for "sporting" purposes. Cabinets and trigger guards might protect small children, not keep the weapons from mentally deranged adults.

    It's past time we put some serious money into seeking out the causes of why we have so many screwed-up people now to begin with; is it dietary, endocrine, developmental, genetic, media-related, what? I do concur with the poster above that the seductive alternate "realities" of video games and social media are a place we should investigate. Some forms of "entertainment," "art" or "free expression" may just be too costly in human terms. We ban such things a child pornography for that very reason.

    Then we need to work out intelligent management practices to keep these damaged minds from becoming a hazard to themselves and others. Obviously common sense would dictate denying them access to deadly weapons in the home. Mental health authorities need to take seriously a parent's inability to manage such a scenario, and there need to be far easier procedures to have such a youth hospitalized or "committed" for the family and public's safety.

    When the Second Amendment was passed, we were a nation of outdoorsmen--farmers, ranchers, people living on the edge of a contested frontier. That is not who we are now, any more than we write with quill pens or drive Conestoga wagons. And we have proven this time that arming suburbia to the teeth is one "freedom" we just can't handle.

    I say this as a lifetime gun owner.
    You do not speak for me or the majority of gun owners I know.


    2 members found this post helpful.

  17. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by caballero View Post
    You do not speak for me or the majority of gun owners I know.
    Neither do you Jose. You speak for deranged lunatics who have infantile fantasies about blowing someone else away to affirm their manhood. I know as much having read many of your posts on shooting forums in the past and that's why you were banned from this forum before.
    Last edited by LexInVA; Dec. 17, 2012 at 07:51 PM.
    SPACE FOR RENT


    4 members found this post helpful.

  18. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lady Eboshi View Post
    When the Second Amendment was passed, we were a nation of outdoorsmen--farmers, ranchers, people living on the edge of a contested frontier. That is not who we are now, any more than we write with quill pens or drive Conestoga wagons. And we have proven this time that arming suburbia to the teeth is one "freedom" we just can't handle.

    I say this as a lifetime gun owner.
    I agree w/quite a bit of what you said and so believe we need to put some serious money into seeking out the causes of so many w/mental health issues.

    But out here we are a nation of outdoorsmen -- farmers, ranchers etc. We do live very close to a border that is quite dangerous (have you checked into the Juarez issue lately?). Your suburbia is not our suburbia.


    1 members found this post helpful.

  19. #39
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    Sep. 15, 2006
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    Default Here's proof about people getting in trouble for stopping robbery...

    " iCOTH " window/bumper stickers.
    http://bluemoongrafixva.webs.com


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  20. #40
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    Oh but grandprixjump that sounds insane!


    1 members found this post helpful.

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