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  1. #41
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    If you read some of the other posts on that blog, Soccermom's husband left his family to marry a bimbo he met online. And he fights paying child support.

    So for those blaming "lack of parenting", no small share of that blame lies at the father's feet.



  2. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mara View Post
    If you read some of the other posts on that blog, Soccermom's husband left his family to marry a bimbo he met online. And he fights paying child support.

    So for those blaming "lack of parenting", no small share of that blame lies at the father's feet.
    Not blaming her, and I only did read the one post.... I don't think anyone was necessarily judging her entire toolbox of parenting skills... the point I think some of us were trying to make is that there's probably more to the story than what was laid out there, which is exactly what you're saying too.
    We couldn't all be cowboys, so some of us are clowns.



  3. #43
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    Not all mental illness can be "fixed" or even managed. My ex's son was borderline MR with a combative disorder that the doctors said 90 percent of hard core felons have. He was a "post it note" kid that lived in the moment only. No consequences mattered to him. It was scary. Drug cocktails constantly changing made little difference. Once he was 18 no one could force him to take them, either.
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  4. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by To the MAX View Post
    I don't think anyone really addressed this and that has been my main question all weekend. Why is this so much more prevalent now?
    Well this is what i hope us mental health folk are addressing. We do know sometihng about assessing risk but it would be much better to know who these people are? They appear to be disconnected (obviously), rageful, smart, male, 20-30, and likely a whole host of other things. But we need to know so much more! some MIGHT have a diagnosable disorder but some may not. Why now? Is this truly new or have we "had them"with us before but somehow their rage was channeled elsewhere? And after figuring out who they are and what distinguishes them from other angry, troubled, disconnected young men, how to we reach them? How do we both attend tothem and protect society? At the moment, we don't seem to know and it seems like for many moms like soccermom, when it comes to mental health help, there ain't no room at the inn. Regardless of what we wind up doing about guns, we HAVE to address this phenomenon. We cannot cut all funding for community health and expect people to deal with this on their own. And of course, my favorite, we need funding for department of corrections, so we can continue responding to the people already in the system effectively, rather than dumping them on the street with $50 kick out money and a hardy handshake.


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  5. #45
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    At one point in history (not just America's), those who were deemed mentally ill got locked away and warehoused in asylums. One didn't have to be violent, necessarily; someone who was just a bit "different" and didn't quite fit in might be unlucky enough to get tagged with the "insane" diagnosis.

    Maybe it wasn't so prevalent precisely BECAUSE "all those crazy people" were locked up.


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  6. #46
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    It makes you wonder ..... if the boy in the OP's article was born into a farming family in let's say Ethiopia .... with very few personal possessions, struggling to survive with his family, little to no schooling, working sun up to sun down in the fields .... would he still be cursing his mother and throwing tantrums at age 13? Would he still be a violent and difficult child?

    Not to say he wouldn't have other problems; but it makes you wonder how much a materialistic society and soft parenting played into his personality development.


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  7. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by lilitiger2 View Post
    Well this is what i hope us mental health folk are addressing. We do know sometihng about assessing risk but it would be much better to know who these people are? They appear to be disconnected (obviously), rageful, smart, male, 20-30, and likely a whole host of other things. But we need to know so much more! some MIGHT have a diagnosable disorder but some may not. Why now? Is this truly new or have we "had them"with us before but somehow their rage was channeled elsewhere? And after figuring out who they are and what distinguishes them from other angry, troubled, disconnected young men, how to we reach them? How do we both attend tothem and protect society? At the moment, we don't seem to know and it seems like for many moms like soccermom, when it comes to mental health help, there ain't no room at the inn. Regardless of what we wind up doing about guns, we HAVE to address this phenomenon. We cannot cut all funding for community health and expect people to deal with this on their own. And of course, my favorite, we need funding for department of corrections, so we can continue responding to the people already in the system effectively, rather than dumping them on the street with $50 kick out money and a hardy handshake.
    All great points, but what has changed so much that people now are exhibiting (or acting on?) these mental illnesses so much more? I have a hard time believing that in just 1, 2, or 3 generations the prevalence has gone up that much. That leads me to believe that to a certain extent, of course except for rare, extreme cases, that it can be at least somewhat attributed to environment. And parents are supposed to be in charge of the environment that you grow up in when you are young.
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  8. #48
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    What that article didn't explain was how she had dealt with it in previous years. Maybe she had spanked, and that didn't change the behavior. Maybe she flew into hysterics, and we just don't know it.

    I will tell you that it is far too easy to judge a parent and far more difficult to be one.

    I have three boys and I wouldn't for a minute give anyone any parenting advice because as I've learned, the best kid in the world can go right off the rails as a teen.

    Personality is more than 80% biological, 20% made. And that includes everyone interacting with the kid + society.

    Does that mean it's futile? No. But I can't possibly blame a parent who sounds like they are dealing with a very very difficult situation.


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  9. #49
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    Nothing, To the Max. We just hear more about it.


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  10. #50
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    well, any society has norms, which is why 'abnormal psych' classes start wtih a discussion of what normal is. Statistical norms? Cultural norms? for other cultures "mental illness" is defined differently and responded to differently, but at the end of the day, each culture has its means of dealing with those they deem "other". Some cultures kill homosexuals! Its hard to say what this kid would have experienced in a totally different culture,with different norms and different expectations. he could have just been a very moody, violent kid who generally others avoided, who grew up (if he was lucky) to be a moody, violent guy who hurt his wife (and others), or he could have threatened someone and his father or someone else killed him, or maybe they made him a guard of the fields or something.Some cultures value schizophrenics, as they see them as kindof an elevated spiritual being, and many people in different cultures have visual hallucinations and it is not at all considered bizarre. Its very hard to look at "mental illness" across cultures as you have to put behavior in social context. some of the symptoms may be the same but their meaning may be very different.


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  11. #51
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    Default just a thought

    Quote Originally Posted by To the MAX View Post
    I don't think anyone really addressed this and that has been my main question all weekend. Why is this so much more prevalent now?
    I personally think that there is a whole myrid of reasons for the increased prevalency, or at least the increased perception of prevalency.

    The one potential cause that keeps coming to my mind is that of the large number of overtly violent video games that seem to be so common amoungst younger males.

    Think about it...youngish 20 something males have had relatively easy access to some very violent games for their entire lives. In many of those games, one is actually rewarded based on the number of kills. In the game world, there is NO negative consequence for killing, only reward. And if one loses, one merely pauses, eats a slice of cold left-over pizza, chugs another Mountain Dew and goes on about the game.

    The thrill comes in the kill. What happens when the video-induced thrill is no longer enough? What happens when the person (who quite possibly has other issues complicating the situation) starts to wonder how it would feel to harm (or kill!) real life persons?

    Just a thought...



  12. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by OneGrayPony View Post
    Nothing, To the Max. We just hear more about it.
    I don't think that's really true.

    Toward the end of this article you can see a chart showing the increase in the amount of these rampages from 1960 on.

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisf...holmes-history
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  13. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by To the MAX View Post
    All great points, but what has changed so much that people now are exhibiting (or acting on?) these mental illnesses so much more? I have a hard time believing that in just 1, 2, or 3 generations the prevalence has gone up that much. That leads me to believe that to a certain extent, of course except for rare, extreme cases, that it can be at least somewhat attributed to environment. And parents are supposed to be in charge of the environment that you grow up in when you are young.
    Well we look at environmental components for sure, which would include the family dynamics, but also societal changes. I assume researchers will be looking at everything from diet to exposure to various forms of media, to family composition to community dynamics, looking as well at protective factors-again why don't ALL troubled, angry, guys do this? Because obviously, most don't. Why not? And then of course we will have the discussion of balancing their rights against society's-assuming we CAN identify risk factors, then what? Throw them all off a bridge? Take them from their families and put them in institutions? Prevent them from having children? Not very appealing options.



  14. #54
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    I just read a study on mental illness and violence not being linked, unless there is also substance abuse.

    Kinda throws this one sideways if that is true.
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  15. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by Let'sTalkAboutHorses View Post
    I personally think that there is a whole myrid of reasons for the increased prevalency, or at least the increased perception of prevalency.

    The one potential cause that keeps coming to my mind is that of the large number of overtly violent video games that seem to be so common amoungst younger males.

    Think about it...youngish 20 something males have had relatively easy access to some very violent games for their entire lives. In many of those games, one is actually rewarded based on the number of kills. In the game world, there is NO negative consequence for killing, only reward. And if one loses, one merely pauses, eats a slice of cold left-over pizza, chugs another Mountain Dew and goes on about the game.

    The thrill comes in the kill. What happens when the video-induced thrill is no longer enough? What happens when the person (who quite possibly has other issues complicating the situation) starts to wonder how it would feel to harm (or kill!) real life persons?

    Just a thought...
    Wouldn't you agree, though, that this can be brought back to parents as well? If you believe that these video games may be affecting your child in this way, don't allow them to play. Or, limit their amount of time playing, restrict only to certain games, watch for changes in behavior if you do allow them to play these games. How much you want to bet these types of games are not allowed in EqTrainer's house? I applaud her for realizing that her child needs these extra boundaries.

    Get them involved in sports, or reading instead. As a parent, you have control over the type of environment your child grows up in.
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  16. #56
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    Dispelling the Myth of Violence and Mental Illness

    John M. Grohol, Psy.D.
    June 1998; Reviewed: February 2004

    Historically, society (this means you!) has perceived people with mental disorders as being more violent and dangerous than normal folks. People have this image of someone who is "crazy" as being more inclined to acting on those thoughts and causing mayhem and destruction. This has always been a part of the stigma associated with the mentally ill, and one which has been especially difficult to successfully deal with. It is difficult because when it comes to a person's own feelings of safety and security (mixed in with our innate fear response), we tend to be very conservative. "If I ignore that crazy person, then they won't harm me!" Luckily, the proof that people with mental disorders -- such as depression, schizophrenia, and anxiety -- has finally been published.
    A study published in May, 1998 in the Archives of General Psychiatry found that:
    [...] patients discharged from psychiatric facilities who did not abuse alcohol and illegal drugs had a rate of violence no different than that of their neighbors in the community. Substance abuse raised the rate of violence both among discharged psychiatric patients and among non-patients. However, a higher portion of discharged patients than of others in their neighborhoods reported having symptoms of substance abuse, and -- at least when they first got out of the hospital --substance abuse was more likely to lead to violence among discharged patients than among non-patients.
    Significantly, this contradicts one of central perceptions of mental illness within society today. Unless drugs or alcohol are involved, people with mental disorders do not pose any more threat to the community than anyone else. This finding cannot be emphasized enough.
    In the commentary accompanying the study, Bruce Link, Ph.D. and Ann Stueve, Ph.D. note
    [...] Steadman et al asked about the targets of violence and found that the vast majority (86%) of violent acts committed by former patients occurred within the context of family and friendship networks. Indeed, members of the Pittsburgh public who were violent were slightly (but not significantly) more likely to target strangers (22%) than were Pittsburgh patients (11%)! Public fears that patients with mental illness will attack them are sharply contradicted by such findings.
    This is something to note, but not to blow out of proportion. The violence that does occur in those individuals who have a co-existing substance abuse problem is focused on family members and others known to the individual. This doesn't mean you need to be paranoid that someone with a mental illness who is your friend or family member is going to hurt you. It does mean, however, that you need to be wary of someone you know who has a substance abuse problem and a mental disorder. Statistically, they are more prone to violence. Taking reasonable precautions to reduce that violent potential may be prudent if you find yourself in such a situation. A good predictor of future behavior is past behavior. If the person has acted violently toward you in the past, they are likely to do so again in the future, regardless of their mental health status.
    In an interesting development coinciding with the study's release, one organization has put its own unique spin on the findings (as first reported by MadNation). The National Alliance for the Mentally Ill took the study's results and suggested it "[...] conclusively demonstrates what many people have long suspected: treating individuals with major psychiatric disorders markedly reduces episodes of violent behavior." Yet, importantly, this study did not measure the effectiveness of treatment versus no treatment on violence rate (e.g., no control group was used specifically examining the effects of treatment on violence rate). The authors themselves warn of drawing conclusions from the data in this manner:
    Our most unexpected finding is the decline in the proportion of subjects engaging in violence over time. Substantive hypotheses to account for this decline are legion. Patients may become more engaged in treatment over time or social support from family members may increase. Rates of violence may peak around the time of hospital admission, when patients are in acute crisis, and remain high for a period of time after discharge because many patients still have active mental disorders after they leave the hospital.Caution should be exercised before using the rates reported here as summary statistics to characterize violence by discharged patients. We found that the rate of patient violence varied during the course of the 1-year follow-up for the 2 groups with co-occurring substance abuse diagnoses. The effects of hospitalization and treatment on these rates are unknown. In addition, for all 3 patient diagnostic groups, the highest rate of reported violence did not occur during the follow-up year at all, but rather during the 10 weeks prior to the hospitalization during which the patients were enrolled in the study. The prehospitalization rates are likely to be artificially high due to ascertainment bias (ie, violence may have precipitated hospitalization). In addition, an inevitable limitation of research in this area is that patient refusal or attrition can compromise the representativeness of the sample studied.
    Significantly, NAMI used some creative statistical methods to obtain its claims that violence is reduced by halfby treatment. As Table 4. Prevalence of Violence and Other Aggressive Acts clearly shows, violence is reduced significantly over time. When patients first come out of treatment, note that violence is still significantly higher than by Follow-Up 5. Also note that the pre-hospital admission violence rate is self-reported only. The authors warn about drawing conclusions based upon only one source of data, "Our data suggest that it is crucial for [...] studies to use multiple measures of violence rather than the single measures that have characterized most prior research." Relying on a patient's self-report of violence is not a very reliable or accurate means in which to draw conclusions from.
    Modified** Table 4. Prevalence of Violence and Other Aggressive Acts

    Major Mental Disorder,
    No Substance Abuse
    Major Mental Disorder,
    Substance Abuse
    Violence Other
    Aggressive
    Acts Only
    % Change
    in
    Violence
    Violence Other
    Aggressive
    Acts Only
    % Change
    in
    Violence

    Prehospital admission [FONT=Arial][/FONT] [SIZE=-1]8.9[/SIZE] [SIZE=-1]21.2[/SIZE] [SIZE=-1] [/SIZE] [SIZE=-1]22.6[/SIZE] [SIZE=-1]28.4[/SIZE]
    Follow-up 1 [SIZE=-1]6.7[/SIZE] [SIZE=-1]22.4[/SIZE] [SIZE=-1]-25%[/SIZE] [SIZE=-1]17.9[/SIZE] [SIZE=-1]24.7[/SIZE] [SIZE=-1]-21%[/SIZE]
    Follow-up 2 [SIZE=-1]5.8[/SIZE] [SIZE=-1]18.6[/SIZE] [SIZE=-1]-35%[/SIZE] [SIZE=-1]10.2[/SIZE] [SIZE=-1]27.5[/SIZE] [SIZE=-1]-55%[/SIZE]
    Follow-up 3 [SIZE=-1]4.0[/SIZE] [SIZE=-1]14.3[/SIZE] [SIZE=-1]-55%[/SIZE] [SIZE=-1]8.4[/SIZE] [SIZE=-1]19.4[/SIZE] [SIZE=-1]-63%[/SIZE]
    Follow-up 4 [SIZE=-1]6.4[/SIZE] [SIZE=-1]14.0[/SIZE] [SIZE=-1]-28%[/SIZE] [SIZE=-1]8.7[/SIZE] [SIZE=-1]19.8[/SIZE] [SIZE=-1]-62%[/SIZE]
    Follow-up 5 [SIZE=-1]4.4[/SIZE] [SIZE=-1]10.4[/SIZE] [SIZE=-1]-51%[/SIZE] [SIZE=-1]6.1[/SIZE] [SIZE=-1]18.3[/SIZE] [SIZE=-1]-73%[/SIZE]
    1-Year aggregate [SIZE=-1]17.9[/SIZE] [SIZE=-1]32.7[/SIZE] [SIZE=-1] [/SIZE] [SIZE=-1]31.1[/SIZE] [SIZE=-1]33.7[/SIZE]
    Other Mental Disorder,
    Substance Abuse
    Total Patient
    Sample[FONT=Arial][/FONT]
    Violence Other
    Aggressive
    Acts Only
    % Change
    in
    Violence
    Violence Other
    Aggressive
    Acts Only
    % Change
    in
    Violence

    Prehospital admission [FONT=Arial][/FONT] [SIZE=-1]24.9[/SIZE] [SIZE=-1]31.4[/SIZE] [SIZE=-1]17.4[/SIZE] [SIZE=-1]25.8[/SIZE] [SIZE=-1] [/SIZE]
    Follow-up 1 [SIZE=-1]22.3[/SIZE] [SIZE=-1]34.7[/SIZE] [SIZE=-1]-10%[/SIZE] [SIZE=-1]13.5[/SIZE] [SIZE=-1]25.2[/SIZE] [SIZE=-1]-22%[/SIZE]
    Follow-up 2 [SIZE=-1]22.1[/SIZE] [SIZE=-1]22.1[/SIZE] [SIZE=-1]-11%[/SIZE] [SIZE=-1]10.3[/SIZE] [SIZE=-1]22.7[/SIZE] [SIZE=-1]-41%[/SIZE]
    Follow-up 3 [SIZE=-1]11.1[/SIZE] [SIZE=-1]30.3[/SIZE] [SIZE=-1]-55%[/SIZE] [SIZE=-1]6.9[/SIZE] [SIZE=-1]18.8[/SIZE] [SIZE=-1]-60%[/SIZE]
    Follow-up 4 [SIZE=-1]9.2[/SIZE] [SIZE=-1]24.5[/SIZE] [SIZE=-1]-63%[/SIZE] [SIZE=-1]7.6[/SIZE] [SIZE=-1]18.0[/SIZE] [SIZE=-1]-56%[/SIZE]
    Follow-up 5 [SIZE=-1]11.9[/SIZE] [SIZE=-1]12.9[/SIZE] [SIZE=-1]-52%[/SIZE] [SIZE=-1]6.3[/SIZE] [SIZE=-1]14.2[/SIZE] [SIZE=-1]-64%[/SIZE]
    1-Year aggregate [SIZE=-1]43.0[/SIZE] [SIZE=-1]32.4[/SIZE] [SIZE=-1] [/SIZE] [SIZE=-1]27.5[/SIZE] [SIZE=-1]33.0[/SIZE] [SIZE=-1] [/SIZE]

    [SIZE=-1]* All data are given as percentage unless otherwise indicated.
    [FONT=Arial][/FONT]Includes 21 subjects with a personality disorder and no major mental or substance abuse disorder.
    [FONT=Arial][/FONT]Self-report only.
    ** In order to make the table more readable for our purposes, we left out the "Number" column and added the "% Change in Violence" column. You can view the original table here.[/SIZE]
    Analysis of Table 4's Violence Data:

    Major Mental Disorder, No Substance Abuse Major Mental Disorder, Substance Abuse Other Mental Disorder, Substance Abuse Total Patient Sample[FONT=Arial][/FONT]

    [SIZE=-1]Change immediately after treatment[/SIZE] 25% 21% 10% 22%
    [SIZE=-1]Change which occurred with passage of time*[/SIZE] 26% 52% 42% 42%

    [SIZE=-1]* % Change at Followup 1 - % Change at Followup 5[/SIZE]
    Our own analysis of Table 4's data clearly shows that time alone could easily account for more than one-half of the improvement in violence ratings, and in some cases could account for more than 80% of the improvement. This is a far cry from NAMI's claim that "the effect of treatment in reducing violence [... is] 54 percent." The fact of the matter is, though, that we don't know what really accounted for these reductions, as the authors conclude. NAMI ignored the author's own conclusions and instead created their own.
    There is another finding entirely ignored by NAMI, which should raise some additional questions and concerns about NAMI's conclusions. Look closely at Table 4 above. When you look at the columns labeled "Other Aggressive Acts Only," treatment in some cases appears to actually cause these rates to rise in comparison to pre-hospitalization rates. The authors defined these acts as "other aggressive acts (battery that did not result in physical injury)" and "acts that were coded as other aggressive acts were primarily 'throw objects/push/grab/shove/slap.'" Potentially serious aggressive behaviors such as these should not be ignored.
    NAMI twisted the study's findings in this manner apparently in order to promote its political agenda. In late 1997, the NAMI-Treatment Advocacy Center was formed to promote the implementation of laws and practices that increase access to treatment for persons with mental disorders. A major focus of that effort involves issues concerning involuntary commitment. In this light, NAMI appears to be suggesting that, if need be, laws should be created or reinforced which encourage the greater use of involuntary commitment for those with mental disorders. This research study, from NAMI's point of view, shows how violence can be reduced through treatment, voluntary or not.
    This study has nothing to do with involuntary commitment and showed nothing related to that issue. Don't be confused by this attempt by NAMI to cloud the study's findings -- the mentally ill are no more violent that those who carry no diagnosis.
    It's time that, as a society, we begin to knock down stereotypes and start breaking down the stigma associated with mental disorders. The first stereotype to go down -- permanently, we hope -- is that people who suffer from depression, anxiety, schizophrenia, an eating disorder, or any other type of mental disorder, are somehow more violent than others. This simply isn't true, unless they are involved in substance abuse. Use and abuse of substances such as drugs or alcohol is often correlated with an increase in violence anyway (e.g., due to impaired judgment).
    Violence is most often a criminal activity which has little correlation with a person's mental health. Most people who suffer from a mental disorder are not violent -- there is no need to fear them. Embrace them for who they are -- normal human beings experiencing a difficult time, who need your open mind, caring attitude, and helpful support.
    "Kindness is free" ~ Eurofoal
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  17. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by To the MAX View Post
    I don't think anyone really addressed this and that has been my main question all weekend. Why is this so much more prevalent now?
    My DH and I were talking about it, and he seems to think it is because of how quick we are to medicate kids.
    My niece is a good example. She is just spoiled, with a lousy attitude. Definitely feels entitled. Mom was a less than good mom. She would argue with kid rather than set boundaries and consequences. Kid now has no work ethic, and is disrespectful of others.
    One day she mentions to my mom, she needs to get some prozac because she is stressed. Well, she just got fired after 3 days from a new job, because she showed up late each day, and then refused to study to learn her job. And she had quit her prior job after 2 months, because she thought they were going to fire her (for same reasons.). She had been evicted from her apartment for nonpayment of rent, and her car was in danger of being repo'd because she was 3 pmts late. And she thinks she SHOULDN'T be feeling stress. And wants meds for it.
    Well, to me, in that situation, you SHOULD be stressed. That is what usually makes people change their behavior.


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  18. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by To the MAX View Post
    Wouldn't you agree, though, that this can be brought back to parents as well? If you believe that these video games may be affecting your child in this way, don't allow them to play. Or, limit their amount of time playing, restrict only to certain games, watch for changes in behavior if you do allow them to play these games. How much you want to bet these types of games are not allowed in EqTrainer's house? I applaud her for realizing that her child needs these extra boundaries.

    Get them involved in sports, or reading instead. As a parent, you have control over the type of environment your child grows up in.
    Oh my gosh, YES! I most certainly agree that a fair amount of the violent video game access for teens is very much under the control of parents. (Of course, there may be times when the child comes into contact with the games while at other's homes, but that is another discussion)

    Parenting is the absolutly hardest, most demanding thing I have ever done, and I suspect that it is that way for most parents. Sadly, some of us are more interested in being the child's friend (that they want), and not being the parent (that they need). Sometimes, in order to be a good parent, you have to make unpopular decisions and go against the grain.


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  19. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by EqTrainer View Post
    I am sorry but I read this on line and I do not see a mentally ill child necessarily. I see a child whose mother has relied on other people to set boundaries for him when she should be doing it herself. Calling her a bitch.. And she prides herself on staying calm? Taking away electronics for a day? Really? Why has this child been allowed to push to the point where THIS is where he finally finds a boundary - in school, from the police, or at the hospital?

    Children who exhibit violent behaviour need to be taught how to control themselves, no matter what it takes, so they can learn that they are the one controlling if they are punished or not, they are the one controlling the outcome, and if they wont, their parent WILL. That is why kids have parents.

    LMEqTs older brother is borderline Aspergers. I knew there was something "off" from the time he was born. Got him tested as soon as I could, confirmed it, made a plan. Lots of love, a lot of time spent actually teaching him appropriate social interaction so he could make friends and not be isolated at school, etc... And VERY strong boundaries that were enforced physically if necessary. Yes, he got spanked. A lot, for a while. Sometimes the threat of physical punishment was all that stopped him from, lets say, running into the road or hitting his sister. Pulling the dogs ear.

    When he was around two his pediatrician took me aside and said look.. This is off the record... But if you dont spank him NOW, you will be very sorry later when he is too big to spank. He needs to know you WILL set a boundary, no matter what it takes, so he can set that aside and move on to learning how to get along in the world.

    I had never thought I would be a spanking parent

    But we did, and we watched other kids like him run rampant. He is now 13. Great grades, in band and sports, he has REALLY GOOD FRIENDS, which is key. He is sometimes a PITA and has a smart mouth but - he is fine. The other boys that were like him... Some, not so much, some are scary.

    Obviously there is more to this, I cannot sum up 13 years of child rearing in a few paragraphs, but blaming the health system when you have not parented the child you have - not the one you wish you had - or parented the way you want to no matter what kid you got dealt - doesnt cut it for me. When my son was diagnosed I wanted to pretend it wasnt so. My husband did pretend, and that is another story. It was NO FUN. It was NOTHING like I thought having a chlld would be like. In fact, I almost opted out of having LMEqT because of it, it was all encompassing for so long. His pediatrician, incidentally, advised me to not have another baby until he was at least three. I took her advice.

    Edited to add: the child in this article can turn his behaviour off/on at will.. He is a master manipulator. His mother goes along with it rather than calling him out on the root of the behaviour. I guess I dont see what other people are seeing? I see it easier to say your kid is mentally ill/its out of your hands then to get down to it.
    I'm not sure you can blame the mother here. You really dont know her situation or what she has and has not tried. Yes, he might sound spoiled and manipulative, but her reactions are likely shaped from her past results. Maybe she tried the discipline route and it didn't work. Maybe her calmness prevents dangerous escalations, you really don't know.

    I do know about Asp/Aut kids because I grew up with one and knew many others through the support network. One size does not fit all... Sometimes a situation is better controlled with calm.

    I am glad you found a way to make it work for your son and I wish you all the best in the future. Your son is lucky to have you.

    But I would not cast stones at this mother without knowing the whole story.....


    11 members found this post helpful.

  20. #60
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    I was incredibly touched by this mother's story about her son. I am not a parent but my husband is a police officer and has an incredible amount of experience dealing with parents and children/teenagers in conflict, sometimes due to mental illness, sometimes not. There have been threats of suicide/actual suicide, violence, substance abuse, various levels of parental support, psychiatric evaluations, etc.

    The one thing he has always told me is to never judge parents with difficult children. He says he sees parents who do absolutely everything possible and "right" for their child and still end up in terrible situations. It is some of the saddest and heart-wrenching work he does.

    Needless to say, I agree with the poster who says, "I would not cast stones at this mother without knowing the whole story..." Those of you who pat yourself on the back at how you "handle" your own children have no idea what kind of nightmare this mother is going through. If anything, I would think mothers would show compassion to each other.

    Considering the tragedy that has just happened, take a moment to show some kindness.
    Kelly Soldavin Harvest Moon Farm
    www.harvestmoonfarmpa.com


    8 members found this post helpful.

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