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  1. #41
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    Nov. 2, 2001
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    There is no negotiating, really. There is the notice to put Outlaw Lisa on: You do this effing shit again, you will eat your whip sideways, with a sideorder of spurs. THEN you go to the BO....
    Quote Originally Posted by Bristol Bay View Post
    Try setting your broomstick to fly at a lower altitude.



  2. #42
    Join Date
    Dec. 18, 2006
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    NY
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    5,154

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    Quote Originally Posted by mvp View Post
    You're doing good. If you are "in negotiations" with Outlaw, don't go to the BO yet. What I mean is Outlaw said "Sure, I'll fix it," and then doesn't, your job is to see if Outlaw *was* making an effort but failed. Or, did Outlaw seem to blow you off? Even if this happened, you still aren't done "negotiating"-- handling this problem in-house with Outlaw. Now you need to say, "Yo! Outlaw! I thought you were going to fix it and it's not happening. What do you want to do?"

    If Outlaw gives you crap, *then* you go to the BO. Outlaw shouldn't be surprised.

    The point is that you handle things directly until you get to an unequivocal dead-end with that person before going "up" a level. Just like at work!
    It's really hard to know what the situation is without more detail, but honestly, why does they paying boarder have to negotiate with anyone?

    Let's imagine that the rule is "no horses led without a halter" and the other boarder likes to let their horse just follow them to their stall, sans halter or bridle. If things go wrong, loose horse is in the aisle with other boarders and their horses. Why should the boarders negotiate with this person?

    Sorry, but I don't see this as the boarder's responsibility at all. Rules are rules. Call me a tattle-tale but I pay my money to the BO. My safety, my horse's safety, and my ability to enjoy my time at the barn....in theory all boarders are equal - it's not like at work where the supervisor makes more money for the responsibility of keeping the others in line.

    Obviously, without knowing all the details it's hard to know if I'm just being obstinate about this point...but if it is a basic safety issue that the barn has established (no jumping outside of lessons, no bareback riding, no lunging if there are x number of riders, whatever) then I would have no qualms about going to the BO and asking for rules to be upheld.

    I don't get the impression we are talking about silly things that boarders for which should negotiate between each other - leaving halters attached to the crossties; not sweeping up after picking your horse's feet; horse poops in aisle and boarder doesn't pick up....these are not safety issues.



  3. #43
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    Dec. 2, 2009
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    3,754

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    I think there's negotiation and there's the common courtesy of "hey, did you know that could cause an issue if your horse gets loose? It's against the rules too, and I don't want you to get in trouble."

    Not good reception? Then by ALL means, go to the BO.

    But think about it, the person may not know its against the rules. Or they see other people doing it and do it too. Or perhaps they left their lead rope in the car and had to do it just that one time.

    I wouldn't view it as a negotiation, but I would have the decency to at least say something to the offender, as it appears the OP has done.



  4. #44
    Join Date
    Jan. 7, 2001
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    Usually too far from the barn
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    I'll say things like "please don't canter so close up behind him" or remind people of ring etiquette. Certainly if someone is doing something dangerous I'll call them out even if it not mentioned in the rules. For example: I had the chance to ride a nice 5yo mare of my trainer's. Mare is sensible but still green and outdoor riding area is not a fenced "ring" but is an open area generally surrounded by paddocks with one side bordering the indoor. A young boarder turned her horse in in the indoor and the horse tore about in there, kicking clods at the wall and thus rattling my young mount. Afterward I reminded the girl to be aware that her horse running and bucking and kicking clods could be heard by all the horses in the outdoor area. The next day when the girl got there I was on the same young mare. She remembered what I'd said and didn't put her horse in the indoor until the outdoor was clear.
    Turning in is not "against the rules" but when young OTTB re-sale projects are being ridden outside the arena it's best not to invite extra trouble.
    As for the OP, I can't see how any BO would want to be open to the potential for loss of clients or worse, lawsuits should someone get hurt. It sounds like others have had issues with someone who appears to be a frequent offender. Glad to hear BO is addressing it.
    BO's can't be everywhere. Sometimes they need someone willing to let them know if rules are being broken. If fellow clients have spoken to Outlaw and have gotten no satisfaction then it's time to bring in BO in on it. It is the BO's job to provide as safe an environment as possible for ALL clients.
    F O.B
    Resident racing historian ~~~ Re-riders Clique
    Founder of the Mighty Thoroughbred Clique



  5. #45
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    Nov. 6, 2009
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    Quote Originally Posted by S1969 View Post
    It's really hard to know what the situation is without more detail, but honestly, why does they paying boarder have to negotiate with anyone?

    Let's imagine that the rule is "no horses led without a halter" and the other boarder likes to let their horse just follow them to their stall, sans halter or bridle. If things go wrong, loose horse is in the aisle with other boarders and their horses. Why should the boarders negotiate with this person?

    Sorry, but I don't see this as the boarder's responsibility at all. Rules are rules. Call me a tattle-tale but I pay my money to the BO. My safety, my horse's safety, and my ability to enjoy my time at the barn....in theory all boarders are equal - it's not like at work where the supervisor makes more money for the responsibility of keeping the others in line.

    Obviously, without knowing all the details it's hard to know if I'm just being obstinate about this point...but if it is a basic safety issue that the barn has established (no jumping outside of lessons, no bareback riding, no lunging if there are x number of riders, whatever) then I would have no qualms about going to the BO and asking for rules to be upheld.

    I don't get the impression we are talking about silly things that boarders for which should negotiate between each other - leaving halters attached to the crossties; not sweeping up after picking your horse's feet; horse poops in aisle and boarder doesn't pick up....these are not safety issues.
    S, I completely agree with you. My boarders are paying me $$$$ each month to run a safe and well organized barn so that they can come out and enjoy it. It's fine if people remind one another about the rules but fellow boarders really have no authority to enforce rules. Plus, most boarders aren't typically physically at the barn enough hours to consistently police things.

    Honestly, I'd be furious if there was a serious safety issue, particularly a recurring one, that no one had brought to my attention. A BO has a right to know. My business, my reputation, and my financial responsibility for any liability are all affected by people doing unsafe things on my property. If a serious accident occurred on my property, I'd be deeply personally affected by it as well. I would urge people to stop and think, "What would a responsible, safety conscious adult do?" instead of worrying about being labelled a tattle-tale.


    2 members found this post helpful.

  6. #46
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    May. 25, 2012
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    627

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    Glad this is being resolved in a satisfactory way for the OP.

    Re: the comments abut women not being able to speak up and the situation being different if it were a barn full of men, I feel compelled to comment.

    Women's behavior in these situations will not change until society's expectations of women and the mixed messages they receive change. I am a woman who has been blunt, direct and straightforward my entire life and has had little patience for drama llamas. I get very little admiration or praise for these qualities or handling things "like a man." Instead I am often considered abrasive, difficult, masculine or the "b" word. For saying or doing EXACTLY the same things that would be praised in a man as direct, firm or businesslike.

    Fortunately for me I recognize this for the trap it is and go on about my way, however, I am loathe to criticize my sisters for trying to conform to societal expectations and avoid derogatory labels.
    Last edited by McGurk; Dec. 17, 2012 at 10:44 AM.


    7 members found this post helpful.

  7. #47
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    Sep. 26, 2010
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    @McGurk, that's exactly it.


    One thing this situation has taught me, is just do what needs to be done and if someone doesn't like it, tough. The way people react will tell you volumes. So in this case, I know that the BO wants to be on top of things and is going to enforce what needs to be enforced and it's a good place to hang my helmet.



  8. #48
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    Dec. 2, 2009
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    McGurk, I'm right there with you, which is why I'm advocating for talking to the offender FIRST. Our own acceptance of being strong has to start with US too, otherwise we're falling prey to the same thing that is keeping us here...expecting others to "fix" the gender issue for us.

    I personally like strong women, and respect those that deal with the situation instead of waiting for someone to fix a problem for you.

    Probably a thread for Off topic, but I've done a lot of work in this area as part of professional development. Our workplace culture changed dramatically (for the better) when people started being more forthright. And "even" men can learn helplessness if the culture is "wrong" enough.



  9. #49
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    Nov. 6, 2009
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    One Gray, I agree with what you say about speaking up right then and there if you witness someone doing something dangerous or abusive. However, a boarding barn owner/manager has a huge stake where safety issues at their facility are concerned so it is critical that they are involved as well. Sometimes the witness could be someone young or new to the barn and the offender could be a trainer, and I think that in the case that someone isn't comfortable speaking up, they 100% should feel comfortable letting their BO know.

    I think there also is a difference between co-workers and "co-clients." I don't see anything wrong with my employees helping to enforce the rules between themselves. My employees are my "agents," they are paid to help me run my barn and keep it safe and workmanlike. While I like my boarders to be concerned about safety and to feel comfortable encouraging fellow boarders to behave in a safe and workmanlike manner, they do not represent me or have any real authority over the situation.



  10. #50
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    Nov. 13, 2009
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    4,714

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    If I had to venture a guess, it would be that this person was lunging a horse in the ring with several other riders...and had no control of the horse. I've been in this situation myself, and it is not safe.

    I'm glad your BO is taking it seriously and taking action.



  11. #51
    Join Date
    Jan. 21, 2010
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    2,202

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    Quote Originally Posted by AlterMe123 View Post
    it's the BO who is responsible for telling people to stick to the rules.
    Quote Originally Posted by S1969 View Post
    It's really hard to know what the situation is without more detail, but honestly, why does they paying boarder have to negotiate with anyone?
    Amen to this. Glad the OP went to the BO and got excellent results. We've all been in that situation where we see a fellow boarder leave a halter on the aisle floor where a horse could get caught up, and said "Hey, you should really hang that up before someone trips over it". You should only say it once. Repeat offenders, IMO, require some sort of "punishment", which is not mine to dole out. That, in my experience, leads to the passive aggressive behavior that boarders get caught up in. Tell the BO, if BO doesn't care, then it's your call whether you will put your money into a place that allows rules to be broken routinely.


    Quote Originally Posted by cowboymom View Post
    If this was a barn full of men I have to imagine how it would go down.

    Hey dummazz you're going to get us all killed, knock it off.

    the end.

    possible sequel: Hey, BO, tell Mr Dummazz to knock off the stupid stuff before he gets us all killed.
    I recently moved to a racing barn after years at show barns. Essentially all men after years of nothin' but women. What a breath of fresh air!! Everyone minds their own business, yet watches out for each other, and everyone is a straight shooter.



  12. #52
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    Dec. 2, 2009
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    I think we actually do agree BeeHoney!

    I don't expect other boarders to enforce rules, that's not in the least what I'm saying

    However, having experienced a high number of very picky and bizarre barn drama (as a former barn manager) I perhaps might be jaded to what some people view as "issues". Every barn's culture is different!



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