[dklime]

Rome was the largest strongest nation on earth at the time. They had weaponry which was so advanced, they felt they were never to fear another country's invasion. Lo and Behold, the so-called barbarians attacked out of the north and, while Rome basked in it's mighty glory, the armies of the north defeated them! Believe me, our infrastructure isn't so sound that we can't be overrun by another power! Most of America wouldn't survive a couple of weeks if the electricity went off. So, do we still need the Second Amendment? Hell yes, we do! If not to protect us from some unforeseen threat, how about our own government which is why the 2nd came into play in the first place. One only has to look at what happened during Katrina to understand the stance of most U.S. firearm owners.
What about Ruby Ridge? Wake up, when guns are outlawed, only outlaws will have guns! It's a horrific tradegy what has happened to those poor people, victems of such violence but get one thing straight, that slime ball would have used any means to get his agenda across. If not guns, homemade bombs, poisonous gas, knives/swords, and the list goes on. In order to stop this type of violence, we have to clip the sensationalism of our media and start putting more focus on mental health. No one wants to spend money to do that! So now, the easy cop out is to blame guns. Hell, I guess spoons made Rosie O'Donnell fat!

[LarkspurCO]

Larkspur,CO.

1. Is this true?

No, it is not true. Stolen virtue is wrong (as usual).

Here is the wildfire thread from June. Feel free to go through my post history during June and July.

http://www.chronofhorse.com/forum/sh...s-you-guys-too!

Wasn't there a debate about the Red States vs. the Blue States with the Reds being anti-government spending while simultaneously taking more Federal dollars per capita that the Blue?

There was. I recall kidding around about keeping all the water here in Colorado.

I just want to know how stuff like this fits together.... even one person's mind.

I certainly appreciate the benefits of many public programs, including safe drinking water, but I also believe it is important to pay attention to history and to realize that even in a system that is mostly good you will find pockets of evil and corruption. The larger and more powerful the system, the larger and more numerous the pockets. Thus, I am for smaller (not nonexistent) government and liberty and all that the US Constitution stands for.

The link I posted about the power grid was from a NY Times article last month, regarding a report by the National Academy of Sciences -- hardly a paranoid nut-case blogger. Of course, widespread power failure is not the only risk that might warrant preparing yourself. How many people lost power and were rendered helpless after Hurricane Sandy? Imagine this sort of disaster on a broader scale...

[vineyridge]

This is exactly why I would favor personal electrical generation for each structure.

[dklime]

Here is my question, and I am the first to admit that I am young and naive and perhaps too idealistic about things sometimes:

I currently live somewhere where hunting is a way of life, and for some people, it's how they get their food for the winter, so I've gotten a new perspective on some of the areas of the fight against gun legislation. I've been talking to some of these people today and we came to a bit of a compromise, and I'm wondering if it can be realistic or not. I suspect not for a multitude of reasons, but I can always hope...

I personally think that people should have the right to own guns with the proper permits, training, and such... as long as they are handguns or guns used for hunting. That is not something that I think should be taken away, for several reasons, nor do I think that realistically, that right could be taken away.

However:

I'm wondering if not allowing civilians to have assault rifles would be feasible. Why would someone need to own an automatic or semi-automatic weapon? It's certainly not going to be used for hunting, and those are the guns that can cause the most damage to the most people in a short amount of time. Yes, anyone can shoot someone with a pistol or a rifle - I'm not saying that they can't or don't - but you don't hear about as many mass shootings with those types of guns as with assault rifles. Why does your average Joe citizen need to own a gun like that?

Just a thought.

I find it interesting your views on firearms but it brings me to wonder about some other things. For instance, do we only allow people to have knives which are meant to cut a piece of meat? Or, should we not allow people to have an unregisterd baseball bat? Many gun owners don't hunt. They shoot competition, collect them, recreational shoot (my wife competes with others in a local church group), carry for personal protection, and the list goes on. So is it fair to only include guns on this list? Some pretty gruesome crimes, which the media didn't exploit, were done by the above. Boards with nails in them and machetes did quite a number on the innocents of Rwanda. Yes, it could happen here.

[prairiewind2]

It's also rather interesting that Colorado seems to have had more "big time" massacres than almost any other state. I wonder why?

I'm not seeing that in a list I'm looking at. Haven't done a spreadsheet or anything, but I'd say California might have the most. Texas, Florida and New York are well represented too.

Liz

[threedogpack]

Our 'government' owns one of the world's greatest armed forces. Don't you think we are already outgunned by our government? See... I don't get it.

this is the thought that keeps occurring to me.

[threedogpack]

I really wish there was a separate country, that intense paranoid anti-government haters like you could go live in.

yep, me too.

See the thing is, it never ever ever ever crosses my mind that the US government will pull off a Mao Zedong and murder 55 million of us. Never, just never. [/QUOTE]

I can't see it either.

[supershorty628]

I find it interesting your views on firearms but it brings me to wonder about some other things. For instance, do we only allow people to have knives which are meant to cut a piece of meat? Or, should we not allow people to have an unregisterd baseball bat? Many gun owners don't hunt. They shoot competition, collect them, recreational shoot (my wife competes with others in a local church group), carry for personal protection, and the list goes on. So is it fair to only include guns on this list? Some pretty gruesome crimes, which the media didn't exploit, were done by the above. Boards with nails in them and machetes did quite a number on the innocents of Rwanda. Yes, it could happen here.

If you had read the entire thread, you would know that I had already addressed part of this in a later post, specifically what guns are used for. I'm well aware that guns aren't just used for hunting (my father earned his varsity letter in school in riflery).

And many others have pointed out in this thread that it is much easier to kill a large number of people in a short amount of time with a gun than with just about any other weapon, excluding bombs.

[dressurpferd01]

yep, me too.

See the thing is, it never ever ever ever crosses my mind that the US government will pull off a Mao Zedong and murder 55 million of us. Never, just never.

I can't see it either.[/QUOTE]

I'm sure the Armenians, Jews, Ukranians, and many other groups thought the same thing...

It can happen anywhere, hence the 2nd amendment that the founders wrote. A direct guarantee that we will never be disarmed and will always be able to remove a tyrant if need be.

[sunridge1]

I can't see it either.

I'm sure the Armenians, Jews, Ukranians, and many other groups thought the same thing...

It can happen anywhere, hence the 2nd amendment that the founders wrote. A direct guarantee that we will never be disarmed and will always be able to remove a tyrant if need be.[/QUOTE]

How are you going to get past the tanks, avoid missiles from the air, the highly trained armed forces etc. with your little 9mm or 50 cal? Do you believe you could?

[stolen virtue]

My apologies to Larkspur, it was Basquemom complaining about the lack of federal spending on fire fighting air craft. I was wrong about the which right winger was complaining.

However, Larkspur still benefitted from federal spending when the fires came through Colo and yet still complains about too much government.....

[hosspuller]

How are you going to get past the tanks, avoid missiles from the air, the highly trained armed forces etc. with your little 9mm or 50 cal? Do you believe you could?

Actually ... it's simple.

An unarmed person is merely a protester. An armed person is a fighter.

Many protesters a mob. Many armed persons an army.

[happymom]

I'm sorry you are so afraid that you offer our children for your security, hosspuller.

[stolen virtue]

As far as the power going out, well there is a system in place in my state that has numerous backups. I work in the power market and the transmission upgrades essentially prevent massive power failures. Many of the peaking power plants that I have worked on are tied directly to local areas in case of power plant or transmission failures along the route. There are so many redundancies in the systems that it is not even possible to go without power for much more than a day.

No, I have checked no power for long periods of time off my worry list years ago.

Edit: Gotta love a thumbs down on an explanation of the power system redundancies. Too funny !

[LarkspurCO]

However, Larkspur still benefitted from federal spending when the fires came through Colo and yet still complains about too much government.....

Aw, shoot. I should go out and burn up something just to make up for it.

What, exactly, does this have to do with the 2nd Amendment?

[dklime]

As far as the power going out, well there is a system in place in my state that has numerous backups. I work in the power market and the transmission upgrades essentially prevent massive power failures. Many of the peaking power plants that I have worked on are tied directly to local areas in case of power plant or transmission failures along the route. There are so many redundancies in the systems that it is not even possible to go without power for much more than a day.

No, I have checked no power for long periods of time off my worry list years ago.

Edit: Gotta love a thumbs down on an explanation of the power system redundancies. Too funny !

I, too, live in a state where we have a fairly reliable power system but, then again, no one has (yet) carefully and meticulously sabotaged the main source and the back ups. What about Katrina, I asked in a previous post? First, rescuers weren't immediately allowed in to aid the stricken and then later our own military began kicking in doors of the home owners, forcing them out! How long did they go without power....hmmm. Oh, well, I guess until one finally quits wearing blinders to the possibilities of mass kaos, will we then start looking to the root of the problems we face in America today!

[threedogpack]

Actually ... it's simple.

An unarmed person is merely a protester. An armed person is a fighter.

Many protesters a mob. Many armed persons an army.

but that assumes they are trained to work together and that they all want the same thing.

[stolen virtue]

I, too, live in a state where we have a fairly reliable power system but, then again, no one has (yet) carefully and meticulously sabotaged the main source and the back ups. What about Katrina, I asked in a previous post? First, rescuers weren't immediately allowed in to aid the stricken and then later our own military began kicking in doors of the home owners, forcing them out! How long did they go without power....hmmm. Oh, well, I guess until one finally quits wearing blinders to the possibilities of mass kaos, will we then start looking to the root of the problems we face in America today!

As I said, I permit power plants and we plan for earthquakes where portions of the system are off line and potentially damaged. But yah, we sit around and plan for disasters when we design these system -we all have "blinders" on...Too Funny some of you. I don't live in the northeast, California is out west and we plan for disasters since we are actively upgrading the power systems and plan on having a major earthquake soon.

Delusions of mass chaos, yah some people stockpile weapons and others design more reliables systems....

Edit: Gee thumbs down again, for letting people know what kind of planning goes into building the power infrastructure in calif. Must be from someone who does not have that kind of planning in their state...Maybe instead of giving my posts a "thumbs down" you might want to get involved in your states power generation policies.....even though clicking a thumbs down is way easier......

[dklime]

If you had read the entire thread, you would know that I had already addressed part of this in a later post, specifically what guns are used for. I'm well aware that guns aren't just used for hunting (my father earned his varsity letter in school in riflery).

And many others have pointed out in this thread that it is much easier to kill a large number of people in a short amount of time with a gun than with just about any other weapon, excluding bombs.

You forgot poisonous gas, airplanes, cars and, oh, by the way molotov cocktails. Let, see, I just read where a person doused some people with a flammable liquid and threw a lighter on them. Again, I must ad, it's not the guns or more gun laws that have to be addressed, it's the mental attitude of these sickos and crazies. But until then, I don't want you or our government telling me that I don't have the right to protect myself and family from them. If you wish to be vurnerable to that, then that's your choice. I won't force my views on you and I promise not to protect you with my firearm should you ever be threatened when the police or military are a long ways away.

[stolen virtue]

What I find even more puzzling than the outright dismissal of the 2nd Amendment expressed by some here are the opinions demonstrating a complete and unabiding trust and faith that the government could never or would never do harm to its people. You do realize that Mao Zedong murdered 55 million of his own people, do you not?

Closer to home, is no one familiar with the MK Ultra mind control experiments conducted by the CIA? And if you are, what is your reason for believing this sort of subversion would not be undertaken today? See "Scientists Warn of Ethical Battle Concerning Military Mind Control" http://www.usnews.com/news/articles/...y-mind-control

Also of interest, these items on Ted Kaczynski and Sirhan Sirhan:
http://blog.timesunion.com/kaczynski...ia-part-1/271/
http://www.theatlantic.com/past/docs...0/06/chase.htm
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...d-control.html

Whether any of this is relevant to recent mass shootings I do not know, but there is at least some cause for suspicion with regard to James Holmes and whether he was involved in mind control experiments, whether he acted alone, etc.

However, if these "Manchurian Candidate" plots are not your cup of tea, consider the cold, hard reality of the world we live in today and just how fragile it is.

For those who say that no one "needs" an automatic weapon, your failure to foresee a scenario in which firepower might be required by the average citizen does not mean such a scenario could not arise.

In other words, your naiveté does not constitute anyone else's reality.

Suppose, for example, an enemy country engineers a bomb that takes out the nation's power grid for a several months. (If you think this cannot happen, please read this: http://www.nytimes.com/2012/11/15/sc...acks.html?_r=0).

After a few days of blackout, 99 percent of citizens have run out of fresh water and food, but you are one of those crazy "preppers" and have stockpiled enough food and water for you and your family to survive a natural disaster (hurricane, volcano, deadly epidemic, etc).

How would you expect to defend your home against roving bands of hungry, thirsty, gun-wielding thugs? Thugs who may be armed by high-powered rifles handed out to Mexican drug runners by the FBI, or with the types of guns typically found in your average inner-city gang?

Would you expect a little 38-caliber revolver or a can of pepper spray to be of any real use?

Here Larkspur you seem to have forgotten your post about the US turning on it's citizens and the need to stockpile weapons to defend yourself against the government. This was your post that I was responding to.