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  1. #141
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    Oct. 18, 2000
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    Quote Originally Posted by supershorty628 View Post
    Chief7, I think that sounds great (and somewhat reasonable), but I suspect it will not go over well on here.
    After all of this, I couldn't care less. Most people on here have no need to use automatic assault weapons to shoot their snakes and woodchucks.

    The Lottery slaughter went down a few towns over from me, the Hartford Beer Distributor's slaughter went down right around the corner from me, about 30 seconds as the crow flies; the Petit murders went on down state, and now due to the same problem, we are burying the babies, and the people who tried to save them.

    Maybe everyone who has been so brainwashed by the gun manufacturers, the marketers and the NRA that the anti-gunpeople are coming to take away their Uncle Fudd's guns need to cling to their guns and scream hysterically that things must never change for them, but honestly, the time has come to put in some limits. I've lived hearing this propaganda for decades from relatives who made really very good money in the gun industry. As long as the money just keeps rolling in for them, and the companies can use this crap to cleverly prevent themselves from being sued, it just keeps being spewed, ad nauseum, and everyone does everything they can to prevent changes to the second amendment and keep the gravy train rolling in for themselves. No one is trying to take away your Uncle Harry's guns. They are trying to slow down the carnage now underway. I'm all for it.

    Too many people have been slaughtered here, and the babies are the final straw. I am not anti-gun, but am for responsible ownership, stricter requirements, and these proposed limits on automatic assault weapons sound fine to us. A friend is so angry he would like to see an automatic 20 year prison term for anyone caught with an unregistered hand gun. Coming from Hartford, he's got cause for that sentiment.
    "The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." Albert Einstein

    http://s1098.photobucket.com/albums/...2011%20Photos/


    4 members found this post helpful.

  2. #142
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    Feb. 25, 2012
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chief2 View Post
    . He said they are looking at two things here: lowering the power of automatic assault weapons, and lowering the size of the clips down so they can only hold ten bullets. .
    "Fully automatic" firearms are (most most purposes) illegal.

    The only way I can think of to "lower the power" would be to lower the powder load but that can (I would think) create very dangerous situation with the firarm (I would think squib load potential). Also anyone who does their own reloading would just load them up to specs. I'm sure firearm folks who know more than me can speak to this.

    I am not opposed to discussion, but I wish people involved knew a lot about firearms (more than people like me!). I also think that for discussions to gain any kind of traction, they can't start with "Why does anyone need......" because a) that is usually NOT a question (its a statement, "No one needs...") and b) it can be answered, thus taking the discussion away from the original point.


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  3. #143
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    The limit they are looking for is no more than 10 bullets in the clip.

    Up until Friday I was still on the fence about this subject, but no more.
    And I think there will be a lot more people feeling the same way. The time for limits on the Second Amendment has come. I really don't care how they do it, just get it done.
    "The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." Albert Einstein

    http://s1098.photobucket.com/albums/...2011%20Photos/


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  4. #144
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    Mar. 16, 2006
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    Larkspur, Colo.
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    What I find even more puzzling than the outright dismissal of the 2nd Amendment expressed by some here are the opinions demonstrating a complete and unabiding trust and faith that the government could never or would never do harm to its people. You do realize that Mao Zedong murdered 55 million of his own people, do you not?

    Closer to home, is no one familiar with the MK Ultra mind control experiments conducted by the CIA? And if you are, what is your reason for believing this sort of subversion would not be undertaken today? See "Scientists Warn of Ethical Battle Concerning Military Mind Control" http://www.usnews.com/news/articles/...y-mind-control

    Also of interest, these items on Ted Kaczynski and Sirhan Sirhan:
    http://blog.timesunion.com/kaczynski...ia-part-1/271/
    http://www.theatlantic.com/past/docs...0/06/chase.htm
    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...d-control.html

    Whether any of this is relevant to recent mass shootings I do not know, but there is at least some cause for suspicion with regard to James Holmes and whether he was involved in mind control experiments, whether he acted alone, etc.

    However, if these "Manchurian Candidate" plots are not your cup of tea, consider the cold, hard reality of the world we live in today and just how fragile it is.

    For those who say that no one "needs" an automatic weapon, your failure to foresee a scenario in which firepower might be required by the average citizen does not mean such a scenario could not arise.

    In other words, your naiveté does not constitute anyone else's reality.

    Suppose, for example, an enemy country engineers a bomb that takes out the nation's power grid for a several months. (If you think this cannot happen, please read this: http://www.nytimes.com/2012/11/15/sc...acks.html?_r=0).

    After a few days of blackout, 99 percent of citizens have run out of fresh water and food, but you are one of those crazy "preppers" and have stockpiled enough food and water for you and your family to survive a natural disaster (hurricane, volcano, deadly epidemic, etc).

    How would you expect to defend your home against roving bands of hungry, thirsty, gun-wielding thugs? Thugs who may be armed by high-powered rifles handed out to Mexican drug runners by the FBI, or with the types of guns typically found in your average inner-city gang?

    Would you expect a little 38-caliber revolver or a can of pepper spray to be of any real use?


    7 members found this post helpful.

  5. #145
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    I find the opinions that the government is just waiting to "go bad" and take everything you own and then rape and pilage your community sad. "Ultra mind control" really and guns are going to help ?

    Really this idea of the big bad government is just so silly. If people are REALLY concerned they would get involved in the local government, but I would not suggest going to your local planning commission and discussing "Ultra mind control" if you want to be take seriously.


    6 members found this post helpful.

  6. #146
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    Feb. 11, 2008
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    gorgeos city
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    Quote Originally Posted by LarkspurCO View Post
    What I find even more puzzling than the outright dismissal of the 2nd Amendment expressed by some here are the opinions demonstrating a complete and unabiding trust and faith that the government could never or would never do harm to its people. You do realize that Mao Zedong murdered 55 million of his own people, do you not?
    I really wish there was a separate country, that intense paranoid anti-government haters like you could go live in.
    I really really really do wish you guys had your own place where you have your own tiny/no government to tell you what to do and infringe on your liberties and you could all live armed to the teeth to protect those liberties. And you could live without any government oversight on your food, your road safety, your building safety, your drinking water pollution, and you could live in a Libertarian Utopia.
    I really really really wish we could make it happen for your guys, I think it would make so many people happy.. say let's we break off and give them Montana and Idaho???

    See the thing is, it never ever ever ever crosses my mind that the US government will pull off a Mao Zedong and murder 55 million of us. Never, just never. I have that much trust in the American system of government, and especially in the American people, who in essence are the American government, that that would never happen.
    Call me f$##%king crazy if you want to.
    ----//\\----
    ---//--\\---
    --//----\\--
    -//------\\-


    8 members found this post helpful.

  7. #147
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    Nov. 22, 2010
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    Where they've got all Hell for a basement
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    Quote Originally Posted by LarkspurCO View Post
    What I find even more puzzling than the outright dismissal of the 2nd Amendment expressed by some here are the opinions demonstrating a complete and unabiding trust and faith that the government could never or would never do harm to its people. You do realize that Mao Zedong murdered 55 million of his own people, do you not?

    Closer to home, is no one familiar with the MK Ultra mind control experiments conducted by the CIA? And if you are, what is your reason for believing this sort of subversion would not be undertaken today? See "Scientists Warn of Ethical Battle Concerning Military Mind Control" http://www.usnews.com/news/articles/...y-mind-control

    Also of interest, these items on Ted Kaczynski and Sirhan Sirhan:
    http://blog.timesunion.com/kaczynski...ia-part-1/271/
    http://www.theatlantic.com/past/docs...0/06/chase.htm
    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...d-control.html

    Whether any of this is relevant to recent mass shootings I do not know, but there is at least some cause for suspicion with regard to James Holmes and whether he was involved in mind control experiments, whether he acted alone, etc.

    However, if these "Manchurian Candidate" plots are not your cup of tea, consider the cold, hard reality of the world we live in today and just how fragile it is.

    For those who say that no one "needs" an automatic weapon, your failure to foresee a scenario in which firepower might be required by the average citizen does not mean such a scenario could not arise.

    In other words, your naiveté does not constitute anyone else's reality.

    Suppose, for example, an enemy country engineers a bomb that takes out the nation's power grid for a several months. (If you think this cannot happen, please read this: http://www.nytimes.com/2012/11/15/sc...acks.html?_r=0).

    After a few days of blackout, 99 percent of citizens have run out of fresh water and food, but you are one of those crazy "preppers" and have stockpiled enough food and water for you and your family to survive a natural disaster (hurricane, volcano, deadly epidemic, etc).

    How would you expect to defend your home against roving bands of hungry, thirsty, gun-wielding thugs? Thugs who may be armed by high-powered rifles handed out to Mexican drug runners by the FBI, or with the types of guns typically found in your average inner-city gang?

    Would you expect a little 38-caliber revolver or a can of pepper spray to be of any real use?
    Am I reading COTH or the script for the next end-of-the-world Hollywood disaster movie...?


    7 members found this post helpful.

  8. #148
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    Aug. 20, 2006
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    wyoming
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    Just thought I'd throw this out there...

    The person who killed the most children in school turns out to be a guy in 1927 who used bombs:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...hool_massacres

    He wouldn't have had the types of weapons we have today - so he found a substitute mass-murder weapon. As I said earlier, people who want to kill a lot of people will find a way. His was fairly simple.

    Liz


    1 members found this post helpful.

  9. #149
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    Nov. 18, 2010
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    california
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    Quote Originally Posted by prairiewind2 View Post
    Just thought I'd throw this out there...

    The person who killed the most children in school turns out to be a guy in 1927 who used bombs:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...hool_massacres

    He wouldn't have had the types of weapons we have today - so he found a substitute mass-murder weapon. As I said earlier, people who want to kill a lot of people will find a way. His was fairly simple.

    Liz
    You do know that the government keeps track of who is buying bomb materials. Mr. Stolen has gone in and removed materials from a person who threatened to kill people ....Might have been "fairly simple" in 1927 not so much anymore.


    5 members found this post helpful.

  10. #150
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    Quote Originally Posted by goodlife View Post
    Am I reading COTH or the script for the next end-of-the-world Hollywood disaster movie...?
    Actually, no, it is the New York Times.


    4 members found this post helpful.

  11. #151
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mickey the Marcher View Post
    I really wish there was a separate country, that intense paranoid anti-government haters like you could go live in.
    I really really really do wish you guys had your own place where you have your own tiny/no government to tell you what to do and infringe on your liberties and you could all live armed to the teeth to protect those liberties. And you could live without any government oversight on your food, your road safety, your building safety, your drinking water pollution, and you could live in a Libertarian Utopia.
    I really really really wish we could make it happen for your guys, I think it would make so many people happy.. say let's we break off and give them Montana and Idaho???

    See the thing is, it never ever ever ever crosses my mind that the US government will pull off a Mao Zedong and murder 55 million of us. Never, just never. I have that much trust in the American system of government, and especially in the American people, who in essence are the American government, that that would never happen.
    Call me f$##%king crazy if you want to.

    Well thank you for your thoughtful response. I happen to love my country and plan to stay here. There is a place for you and your friends. It is called Disneyland.


    4 members found this post helpful.

  12. #152
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    Quote Originally Posted by LarkspurCO View Post
    Well thank you for your thoughtful response. I happen to love my country and plan to stay here. There is a place for you and you friends. It is called Disneyland.
    I think the point is that for those that are constantly disparaging the government, they should go experience a country without government support. I agree, go live where there is no public water sources, no road maintenence, no fire depts, no police, no government food inspections. I find it irritating that those that complain still benefit from the very thing that they claim ruin their lives.

    Larkspur benefitted from the government agency that put out the Colo fires and if I recall correctly complained that Pres. Obama cut back spending on federal fire fighting aircraft. The tune certainly changed in your posts when you and your state needed federal assistance. I have yet to see the government needs to be small people back that position when they are in need of government help.


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  13. #153
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    Feb. 25, 2012
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mickey the Marcher View Post
    say let's we break off and give them Montana and Idaho??? .
    This kind of stuff always makes me smile (you'd have to live here). But I will quote the last part of this great article on Montana...If Montana were to secede from the union to become its own sovereign nation (and don't push us, man, we'll do it), we would instantly become the world's fourth-largest (known) nuclear power. Innocuous white concrete bunkers sprouted in fields and valleys across 23,000 acres of central Montana contain some 200 Minuteman III intercontinental ballistic missiles equipped with nuclear warheads and watched over by 55 "missileers" of the Air Force's 341st Space Wing. Don't mess with Texas? We've got three words for the Lone Star State: Bring. It. On.

    It is just different culturally out here, and in Wyoming, probably Idaho (don't know haven't spent any time there). As I said in an earlier post, guns are part of the culture growing up-a colleague of mine takes his rifle (as do other teachers) to a private school where they teach and hunt over lunch or on the way home. We catch up with friends and neighbors at gun shows (where we all have tables). I dont know that its necessarily "western" as it feels the same in Vermont(hardly a right-wing extremist environment). People do not hate "the government" (we like our leased land, highways, justice system, etc as much as anyone else!!!) but here where Ruby Ridge is recent (and close) history, appreciate caring for our own.


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  14. #154
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    lilitiger2 I was keeping all the good stuff about MT on the QT-we have enough people flooding in as it is!

    It IS different here... in a good way and that way could be ruined...



    5 members found this post helpful.

  15. #155
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    Quote Originally Posted by stolen virtue View Post
    I think the point is that for those that are constantly disparaging the government, they should go experience a country without government support. I agree, go live where there is no public water sources, no road maintenence, no fire depts, no police, no government food inspections. I find it irritating that those that complain still benefit from the very thing that they claim ruin their lives.

    Larkspur benefitted from the government agency that put out the Colo fires and if I recall correctly complained that Pres. Obama cut back spending on federal fire fighting aircraft. The tune certainly changed in your posts when you and your state needed federal assistance. I have yet to see the government needs to be small people back that position when they are in need of government help.
    Larkspur,CO.

    1. Is this true?
    2. If so, can you explain?

    I ask only because of a basic conflict-of-interest that the conservative/libertarian types and states build into their arguments.

    Wasn't there a debate about the Red States vs. the Blue States with the Reds being anti-government spending while simultaneously taking more Federal dollars per capita that the Blue?

    I just want to know how stuff like this fits together.... even one person's mind.
    The armchair saddler
    Politically Pro-Cat


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  16. #156
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    Aug. 20, 2006
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    wyoming
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    Quote Originally Posted by stolen virtue View Post
    You do know that the government keeps track of who is buying bomb materials. Mr. Stolen has gone in and removed materials from a person who threatened to kill people ....Might have been "fairly simple" in 1927 not so much anymore.
    I know nothing about bombs. I hear they can be made out of fertilizer - of which we have an abundance in rural areas. But what you need in addition to that I have no idea, though I suspect the info is readily available on the 'net. Probably there are all sorts of bomb recipes on the 'net.

    As far as your example goes - it was really lucky the person made threats first. Probably most of these tragedies could be prevented if the perps would just make threats first.

    Liz



  17. #157
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    You can't buy most of the fertilizers that were made to make bombs. I get people at work that ask for them and we can't find them any more or if we can order them (as a store) they are in very small quantities and I'm sure names are written down.

    What I do think is that people will always find a way to hurt other people. Sometimes it's easier than other times and that is the crux.


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  18. #158
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mickey the Marcher View Post
    I really wish there was a separate country, that intense paranoid anti-government haters like you could go live in.
    I really really really do wish you guys had your own place where you have your own tiny/no government to tell you what to do and infringe on your liberties and you could all live armed to the teeth to protect those liberties. And you could live without any government oversight on your food, your road safety, your building safety, your drinking water pollution, and you could live in a Libertarian Utopia.
    I really really really wish we could make it happen for your guys, I think it would make so many people happy.. say let's we break off and give them Montana and Idaho???

    See the thing is, it never ever ever ever crosses my mind that the US government will pull off a Mao Zedong and murder 55 million of us. Never, just never. I have that much trust in the American system of government, and especially in the American people, who in essence are the American government, that that would never happen.
    Call me f$##%king crazy if you want to.
    My goodness. What an open mind you have.

    As long as you're tossing out Montana and Idaho, please throw in Wyoming too. We'll take our water and our gas and our coal and our oil and our wind power - and boy, will Nevada and Arizona and California be in some trouble.

    Oh, and no Yellowstone or Glacier Nat'l Parks for you! You'll also lose all northern superhighways - unless you want to pay us big tolls - so food and goods are gonna cost you more. And I'm not completely convinced that some of the other western states won't want to come with us too.

    Now, getting back to reality...I love my country. But I'm not stupid enough to completely trust it. I've seen my government do too many nasty things to trust it completely.

    Liz


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  19. #159
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    There was a time when we considered children the most important right.


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  20. #160
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    It's rather interesting to me that the Deep South which is the poorest, worst educated, and least healthy part of the US is also the most reliably very right wing. Yes, we do suck on the federal tit and get back far more in milk than we ever put in as fodder.

    I wonder what we would be like if secession had worked? Kind of an interesting proposition to consider.

    All of the anti-government people should move to Mississippi and be poor right along with the natives. They all talk big talk but don't seem to be willing to move where people like them control the government. They would be so philosophically happy here, regardless of their poverty, ill health, and menial jobs with no minimum wage, unemployment insurance, etc. (those are federally mandated and have always been fought by Mississippi's legislators) Family of 4 making 10k is not eligible for Medicaid here; and take a look at the maximum unemployment insurance and Worker's Comp payments. Right now, white male legislators whose children all go to segregation academies are "improving" public education by suggesting that Mississippi should pay so that everyone would be able to opt out of bad schools rather than fixing them.

    It's also rather interesting that Colorado seems to have had more "big time" massacres than almost any other state. I wonder why?
    Last edited by vineyridge; Dec. 16, 2012 at 07:58 PM.
    "I'm a lumberjack, and I'm okay."
    Thread killer Extraordinaire


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