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  1. #101
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    Oct. 14, 2012
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    I feel the same way about guns and their misuse as I feel about illeagle drugs and their abuse - it's a SYMPTOM of a greater problem, not the cause.


    12 members found this post helpful.

  2. #102
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    Sep. 5, 2011
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    Quote Originally Posted by Superminion View Post
    Perhaps it still would have happened. I stated a few times that it is my firm belief that when people make up their minds to do something like this, they are going to do it.

    It is my thought, though, that the shooter may not have been able to inflict the mass amount of damage that he did, should somebody else who was armed (and trained) been able to react.
    "Perhaps it still would have happened"??? So what you're suggesting is that teachers & school administrators should be armed with guns at all times?? This, instead of much firmer & more intelligent gun control laws??

    Interesting. Sad, but interesting.


    6 members found this post helpful.

  3. #103
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    Feb. 14, 2012
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    Fern Creek, KY
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    3,010

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    Quote Originally Posted by relocatedTXjumpr View Post
    And you can buy THAT at WalMart?!?!?!?! Hmph, that seems a bit odd.
    http://www.walmart.com/ip/Savage-AXI...Rifle/17656098

    .223 is the caliber of the bullet. It can be chambered in a variety of rifles, I'm learning.
    Quote Originally Posted by MistyBlue View Post
    I prefer them outside playing as opposed to standing in the barn aisle playing "I can crap more than you"
    New Year, New Blog... follow Willow and I here.



  4. #104
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    Feb. 2, 2003
    Location
    Iowa, USA
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    2,579

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    I am really tired of the argument that guns don't kill people. Yes, they effing DO kill people, in a more efficient way than any other personal weapon. Any other weapon requires you to be physically close to victims--giving the victim and/or bystanders a chance to attack and restrain the killer--and takes much more time to kill each person. There is just no way that another type of weapon easily results in 30 people dead in a matter of a minute or two. Therefore this type of weapon merits special controls.
    Also sick of the argument that we shouldn't bother to control guns because bad people will find a way to get them anyway. If distribution were more tightly controlled, a lot less bad people would have guns readily at hand at the moment they make the snap decision to do something. Illegal guns are not something the average person would know how to just go out and get, and each time they do, there is the risk of getting caught. Gun control does not stop murder, but a lot fewer people would be murdered.


    23 members found this post helpful.

  5. #105
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    Feb. 14, 2012
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    Fern Creek, KY
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    3,010

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bacardi1 View Post
    "Perhaps it still would have happened"??? So what you're suggesting is that teachers & school administrators should be armed with guns at all times?? This, instead of much firmer & more intelligent gun control laws??

    Interesting. Sad, but interesting.
    No, no. I feel that IF you CHOOSE to carry a weapon, it must be required that you take classes to obtain and retain your permit. Then, in a situation like this, the person legally carrying the firearm would know what to do.

    I agree with you that firmer & more intelligent gun control laws should take place. I do also think, however, that if a person is going to commit an act like this, those laws will be obsolete.
    Quote Originally Posted by MistyBlue View Post
    I prefer them outside playing as opposed to standing in the barn aisle playing "I can crap more than you"
    New Year, New Blog... follow Willow and I here.



  6. #106
    Join Date
    Dec. 7, 2006
    Location
    Spruce Grove AB
    Posts
    825

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    Just curious, who here on CoTH, owns a firearm(s).

    I own handguns(never carry except to a range) rifles, shotguns and an assault rifle. Everything is locked up tight and ammo is locked separate. Except for my .22 rifle, which is in the closet, with shells in a different loction. And that rifle is there 'just in case'. And I never, ever want that to happen. Ever.

    I am not flippant about my guns. And it would have to be a life or death situation before I pull that rifle out and point it another human being.

    But I grew up with guns in the house, and having both sets of grandparents and parents as farmers, it was as common to a have rifle behind the door as it was to have a farm dog.

    A piece of paper won't stop a person from pulling the trigger. My firearms are registered and I won't be killing people with them, but what's to stop me? A registry? If I wanted to I would find a way. And I will say I will never, ever do that unless forced to.


    5 members found this post helpful.

  7. #107
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    Sep. 8, 2006
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    Fredericksburg, VA
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    2,581

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    Quote Originally Posted by HungarianHippo View Post
    I am really tired of the argument that guns don't kill people. Yes, they effing DO kill people, in a more efficient way than any other personal weapon. Any other weapon requires you to be physically close to victims--giving the victim and/or bystanders a chance to attack and restrain the killer--and takes much more time to kill each person. There is just no way that another type of weapon easily results in 30 people dead in a matter of a minute or two. Therefore this type of weapon merits special controls.
    Also sick of the argument that we shouldn't bother to control guns because bad people will find a way to get them anyway. If distribution were more tightly controlled, a lot less bad people would have guns readily at hand at the moment they make the snap decision to do something. Illegal guns are not something the average person would know how to just go out and get, and each time they do, there is the risk of getting caught. Gun control does not stop murder, but a lot fewer people would be murdered.
    THANK YOU.
    Everyone is entitled to my opinion.


    6 members found this post helpful.

  8. #108
    Join Date
    Oct. 9, 2012
    Location
    Washington State
    Posts
    506

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    I don't know what the answer is here. It's my personal feeling that responsible, law abiding people have a right to own guns. I don't believe that people should be more well armed than the police force, I don't believe that your average citizen needs to have access to bullet proof vests. I do believe that someone who wants to do something horrible like what happened in Connecticut will always find a way, no matter what the law says.

    I also want to point out, to the people who are comparing the crime stats of the U.S. to those of foreign countries, there is a huge disparity in population:
    U.S.-312,000,000
    Russia-143,000,000
    U.K.-62,700,000
    Mexico-115,000,000
    Only China and India have more people than we do.

    We do have a gun in our house. I do not know how to shoot it, it's in the closet in a gun bag, and it's not loaded. I don't think we even have any ammo for it. We talk about getting a hand gun every now and then but honestly I don't think we will, but I like knowing that if I want to, I can. If someone were to attack me or my family, I would absolutely fight back with what ever I had at hand. Since we don't keep a loaded gun in our house it would be a last resort and then used as a bludgeon. Gun control is such a polarizing issue that I don't feel it will ever be resolved to the satisfaction of anyone.

    My thoughts are with the families.


    1 members found this post helpful.

  9. #109
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    Feb. 2, 2003
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    Iowa, USA
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    2,579

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    Quote Originally Posted by volvo_240 View Post
    I feel the same way about guns and their misuse as I feel about illeagle drugs and their abuse - it's a SYMPTOM of a greater problem, not the cause.
    Curious parallel, though, to illegal drugs.
    Drugs don't kill people-- people TAKING drugs kill themselves. Yet the drugs themselves are illegal-- can't buy them, whether or not you plan to take the drugs or do bad things with them. And yes, some people still obtain drugs even through they're illegal. So following the anti-gun control logic, why don't we just legalize all drugs? Because lots and lots of people are deterred from getting drugs because they are illegal, and lots and lots of people are caught trying to get drugs. When drugs are easily and legally obtained, society would suffer because lots more people would get them than otherwise.

    How is this any different from guns?


    2 members found this post helpful.

  10. #110
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    Sep. 8, 2006
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    Fredericksburg, VA
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    I just thought about the fact that Christmas is ten days away. That so many of these parents will go home tonight to Christmas presents wrapped and under the tree that they had bought for a child who is now gone.
    Everyone is entitled to my opinion.


    4 members found this post helpful.

  11. #111
    Join Date
    Jan. 4, 2007
    Location
    TX
    Posts
    42,329

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    Quote Originally Posted by HungarianHippo View Post
    Curious parallel, though, to illegal drugs.
    Drugs don't kill people-- people TAKING drugs kill themselves. Yet the drugs themselves are illegal-- can't buy them, whether or not you plan to take the drugs or do bad things with them. And yes, some people still obtain drugs even through they're illegal. So following the anti-gun control logic, why don't we just legalize all drugs? Because lots and lots of people are deterred from getting drugs because they are illegal, and lots and lots of people are caught trying to get drugs. When drugs are easily and legally obtained, society would suffer because lots more people would get them than otherwise.

    How is this any different from guns?
    Alcohol is one of the more destructive drugs and it is legal.
    Tried banning it and guess what happened?

    I know, apples and bananas to compare those, but the same applies to guns or any other drugs, each one is it's own case to be dealt with on it's own merits and demerits.


    1 members found this post helpful.

  12. #112
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    Feb. 2, 2003
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    Iowa, USA
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    2,579

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    Windsor, you are so right. While we're here bickering over gun control, 30 families are absolutely shattered with grief, and none of my pontificating on guns does a damn thing.
    Goin' out to ride, and bury my face in my horse's neck and cry.


    4 members found this post helpful.

  13. #113
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    Jun. 7, 2009
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    188

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    I own 7 hand guns, 3 rifles and a shotgun. I have my conceal carry permit, and my ccp weapon is my Taurus 327.
    I am a former Correctional Officer; and also a former police officer.
    I have had extensive training in the use of firearms through the years, and yes, I carry at all times.
    I will not give up my guns because of bastards like the one today. The bad guys will usually be able to get a gun if they want one. I want to be able to protect myself and my love ones.
    My heart goes out to all who are affected by the tragedy today.


    11 members found this post helpful.

  14. #114
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    Oct. 14, 2012
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    112

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    Quote Originally Posted by HungarianHippo View Post
    Curious parallel, though, to illegal drugs.
    Drugs don't kill people-- people TAKING drugs kill themselves. Yet the drugs themselves are illegal-- can't buy them, whether or not you plan to take the drugs or do bad things with them. And yes, some people still obtain drugs even through they're illegal. So following the anti-gun control logic, why don't we just legalize all drugs? Because lots and lots of people are deterred from getting drugs because they are illegal, and lots and lots of people are caught trying to get drugs. When drugs are easily and legally obtained, society would suffer because lots more people would get them than otherwise.

    How is this any different from guns?
    I can also make strong case to myself for legalization of drugs. I'm generally an Obama loving dem, but find myself leaning libertarian on these issues. Much of the violence and damage from each are directly related to their illeagality- ie the criminal scumbags who control their movement worldwide.

    I do however understand and also feel the emotional appeal of stricter gun control after such a horrible event. I simply don't believe that stricter controls would prevent them.

    I
    Last edited by volvo_240; Dec. 14, 2012 at 06:06 PM. Reason: stupid phone


    2 members found this post helpful.

  15. #115
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    Apr. 10, 2006
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    7,384

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    Crackerdog, there is a disparity in population... England could fit in NYS and I do agree with you on that.

    However people over there just don't have access to guns like we do here. I guess politically and culturally things are just a whole lot different there. My in-laws were appalled that you could walk into Walmart and buy a gun. Hubby has lived here 12 years and still does a double take when he sees a cop walking around with a gun in his holster.
    We couldn't all be cowboys, so some of us are clowns.


    1 members found this post helpful.

  16. #116
    Join Date
    Dec. 14, 2007
    Posts
    230

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    Quote Originally Posted by ChocoMare View Post
    This is why the City of Kennesaw, GA has virtually no crime.... it's a law that all City residents must own a hand gun.

    The evil know this law.... they avoid Kennesaw like the plaque.
    I want to move to Kennesaw.
    Audaces fortuna iuvat.


    7 members found this post helpful.

  17. #117
    Join Date
    Feb. 25, 2012
    Location
    Montana
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    2,824

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    If we keep focusing on the guns, we will continue missing the point that apparently a great number of our fellow citizens are very angry and disconnected. If not guns, they will use something else-gas? bombs? And we NEED to figure out what is up with them.

    As far as "gun control" the criminals with whom I have worked over the years have had NO trouble, AT ALL getting guns anytime they needed one. ITS AGAINST THE LAW TO CARRY A GUN ON SCHOOL PROPERTY and that stop this gentlman? of course not. The only people unable to get firearms then would be law abiding responsible people.

    And as far as mental health screenings, I think a person's past BEHAVIOR is a great indicator of what they will do in the future, so felonies, domestic violence, could (and is) should be used. But screening by diagnosis? No. I know of no mental health provider who would a) sign on the line that they believe an individual would NEVER hurt someone, and b) I would never want to limit say, a woman's right to carry a firearms if she meets criteria for PTSD. Nor would I want a vet to avoid coming in for help because he fears a diagnosis would take his guns away.

    But meanwhile, to those families.... I can't imagine. I just cannot imagine it.


    8 members found this post helpful.

  18. #118
    Join Date
    Dec. 14, 2007
    Posts
    230

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    Quote Originally Posted by Windsor1 View Post
    I just thought about the fact that Christmas is ten days away. That so many of these parents will go home tonight to Christmas presents wrapped and under the tree that they had bought for a child who is now gone.
    Oh God. That thought made me cry.
    Audaces fortuna iuvat.



  19. #119
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    Sep. 7, 2009
    Location
    Lexington, KY
    Posts
    19,412

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    Quote Originally Posted by Crackerdog View Post
    I don't know what the answer is here. It's my personal feeling that responsible, law abiding people have a right to own guns. I don't believe that people should be more well armed than the police force, I don't believe that your average citizen needs to have access to bullet proof vests. I do believe that someone who wants to do something horrible like what happened in Connecticut will always find a way, no matter what the law says.

    I also want to point out, to the people who are comparing the crime stats of the U.S. to those of foreign countries, there is a huge disparity in population:
    U.S.-312,000,000
    Russia-143,000,000
    U.K.-62,700,000
    Mexico-115,000,000
    Only China and India have more people than we do.

    We do have a gun in our house. I do not know how to shoot it, it's in the closet in a gun bag, and it's not loaded. I don't think we even have any ammo for it. We talk about getting a hand gun every now and then but honestly I don't think we will, but I like knowing that if I want to, I can. If someone were to attack me or my family, I would absolutely fight back with what ever I had at hand. Since we don't keep a loaded gun in our house it would be a last resort and then used as a bludgeon. Gun control is such a polarizing issue that I don't feel it will ever be resolved to the satisfaction of anyone.

    My thoughts are with the families.
    The statistics, for the most part, are per capita. So it really doesn't matter how large or small the country is.
    "We can judge the heart of a man by his treatment of animals." ~Immanuel Kant


    6 members found this post helpful.

  20. #120
    Join Date
    Feb. 15, 2004
    Location
    Ontario
    Posts
    8,197

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    There should be a total news blackout on the gunman. No name, no reason. There will be copycat incidents, some will appreciate their moment of glory, etc. Half of the shoot outs would be avoided.
    Now, who will dare fire someone with or without cause, because you know that that person may or may not acquire/possess/find a gun and come back and shoot you.

    Canada has much stricter gun laws and even though, we do have incidents, there are few. Yes, there was Ecole polytechnique and this summer in Toronto, but still I feel much more comfortable here than I do anytime I cross the border (which is not often).

    I am sorry that innocent victims paid the price... once again! I heard someone wonder how he got access to the school because you have to ring a buzzer and be known... but his mother worked there... and died...

    This guy is dead, but any other living/arrested shooter does not deserve mention on the news AT ALL.


    2 members found this post helpful.

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