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  1. #521
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    A thought to add. Any proposal against semiautomatic guns is a red herring. Practically all guns are semiautomatic. So... to say they are "against semiautomatic guns" means they are against all guns. The only exceptions are muzzle loaders and revolvers. The previous discussion points on farm use is meaningless.

    Another exception... pump shot guns... although they can be operated fast enough to hit two clay targets in the air.
    Last edited by hosspuller; Dec. 28, 2012 at 02:43 PM. Reason: added shotguns


    6 members found this post helpful.

  2. #522
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    Before we throw the word genocide around lets look at the definition of it ": the deliberate and systematic destruction of a racial, political, or cultural group"

    Let's educate ourselves before throwing such a word for our own selfish political gains around in such a use that insults the people and their families that have actually lived through true genocide. (Yes, this is a personal issue for me)


    2 members found this post helpful.

  3. #523
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    Quote Originally Posted by hosspuller View Post
    A thought to add. Any proposal against semiautomatic guns is a red herring. Practically all guns are semiautomatic. So... to say they are "against semiautomatic guns" means they are against all guns. The only exceptions are muzzle loaders and revolvers. The previous discussion points on farm use is meaningless.
    big green thumb HP!


    2 members found this post helpful.

  4. #524
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    Quote Originally Posted by AffirmedHope View Post
    Before we throw the word genocide around lets look at the definition of it ": the deliberate and systematic destruction of a racial, political, or cultural group"

    Let's educate ourselves before throwing such a word for our own selfish political gains around in such a use that insults the people and their families that have actually lived through true genocide. (Yes, this is a personal issue for me)
    I do not think anyone has thrown the word genocide around in anyway that was intended to be insulting. I certainly apologize if I came across that way. I think it is very important to look at history and learn from it. I found this link that has an interesting chart and other information http://jpfo.org/filegen-a-m/deathgc.htm (I have seen the same chart and information in many many other places as well). History has shown that prior to a government killing large numbers of its citizens they disarm them.


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  5. #525
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    Quote Originally Posted by AffirmedHope View Post
    Before we throw the word genocide around lets look at the definition of it ": the deliberate and systematic destruction of a racial, political, or cultural group"

    Let's educate ourselves before throwing such a word for our own selfish political gains around in such a use that insults the people and their families that have actually lived through true genocide. (Yes, this is a personal issue for me)
    Me as well. My stepmom is 2nd generation Armenian whose parents came here to escape. How many people in this country are even aware of the Armenian genocide?

    Anyway, on topic, Feinswine has released the details of the bill she will introduce. Complete ban on manufacture, import, transfer and possession of semiautos. All existing guns grandfathered, but must be registered under NFA.

    All pro gun rights posters, write your congress critters and make it known that if they support this legislation, you will actively work to remove them in the next election. Remember, registration always leads to confiscation.


    5 members found this post helpful.

  6. #526
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dance_To_Oblivion View Post
    I do not think anyone has thrown the word genocide around in anyway that was intended to be insulting. I certainly apologize if I came across that way. I think it is very important to look at history and learn from it. I found this link that has an interesting chart and other information http://jpfo.org/filegen-a-m/deathgc.htm (I have seen the same chart and information in many many other places as well). History has shown that prior to a government killing large numbers of its citizens they disarm them.
    It was not you, it was Xmas who said that gun violence in the United States is a slow form of genocide. That's what got me.


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  7. #527
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    One more point I'd like to make re: the government not getting tyrannical. I'd like everyone to read up on the Battle of Athens, TN and the Bonus Army. After reading about those two events, please, tell me agin that I have nothing to fear from my government.


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  8. #528
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    You know, technically, the 2nd amendment is intended to arm the U.S. against OUTSIDE forces and/or to support the government, and taking arms up against the government is considered treason. You want to change things...vote.
    "We can judge the heart of a man by his treatment of animals." ~Immanuel Kant


    3 members found this post helpful.

  9. #529
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    Quote Originally Posted by LauraKY View Post
    You know, technically, the 2nd amendment is intended to arm the U.S. against OUTSIDE forces and/or to support the government, and taking arms up against the government is considered treason. You want to change things...vote.
    Utterly wrong. Go do some research and read some of the Federalist Papers and some of the writings of the Founders on their intent with the 2nd. It is ABSOLUTELY intended for us to be able to overthrow an out of control tyrannical government.


    4 members found this post helpful.

  10. #530
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    Quote Originally Posted by dressurpferd01 View Post
    It is ABSOLUTELY intended for us to be able to overthrow an out of control tyrannical government.
    Yes, which made sense in that time and place, fresh on the heels of getting out from under the rule of the king of England.

    A couple of centuries later, it might be time for an update. Like the amendments to abolish slavery, let women vote, etc.


    3 members found this post helpful.

  11. #531
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    Quote Originally Posted by MHM View Post
    Yes, which made sense in that time and place, fresh on the heels of getting out from under the rule of the king of England.

    A couple of centuries later, it might be time for an update. Like the amendments to abolish slavery, let women vote, etc.
    Don't forget freedom of speech.
    That one is inconvenient at times also.


    5 members found this post helpful.

  12. #532
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bluey View Post
    Don't forget freedom of speech.
    That one is inconvenient at times also.
    As far as I know, 10,000 people a year don't die in this country from freedom of speech. So it's probably not a huge issue.


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  13. #533
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    Quote Originally Posted by MHM View Post
    As far as I know, 10,000 people a year don't die in this country from freedom of speech. So it's probably not a huge issue.
    Did women that could not vote died?
    Didn't know that.


    3 members found this post helpful.

  14. #534
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    Quote Originally Posted by dressurpferd01 View Post
    Me as well. My stepmom is 2nd generation Armenian whose parents came here to escape. How many people in this country are even aware of the Armenian genocide?
    I know all about it from having worked with an Armanian lady for years although I even knew about it before meeting her!


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  15. #535
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fred View Post
    You want to reread your *history* hosspuller.
    Hitler was in fact elected initially.
    The aristocracy and industrialists didn't 'like' him but felt he would be useful to them to stem the tide of communism. So they voted for him.
    He also played very effectively on the fears, biases, fears of the 'Other', sense of 'injustice' and ideas of racial purity and superiority of Germans and Germany to win over others.
    He and Goebels also had a very clear understanding of the usefullness of controlling the media and the message that the public got.
    He also spent a lot of time busting unions and anything that smacked of 'socialism'

    Something seems oh so familar to me about all that.....
    I neglected to mention that one of the things that Hitler also promised was to take Germany 'back' - back to the once and future mythological past - the Reich.
    Ein volk, ein Reich.
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  16. #536
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    Quote Originally Posted by dressurpferd01 View Post

    Anyway, on topic, Feinswine has released the details of the bill she will introduce. Complete ban on manufacture, import, transfer and possession of semiautos. All existing guns grandfathered, but must be registered under NFA.

    All pro gun rights posters, write your congress critters and make it known that if they support this legislation, you will actively work to remove them in the next election. Remember, registration always leads to confiscation.
    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/alan-c...b_2377291.html


    dressurpferd, the Senator's name is FeinSTEIN, fyi.

    Your consistent mockery of her name only makes you look like someone with a grade school mentality.

    And your last line? "remember, registration always leads to confiscation".
    Where on earth do you get these ideas?

    Is your car registered? licenced? Do you have a social security number? driver's licence?


    2 members found this post helpful.

  17. #537
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    Nevermind


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  18. #538
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fred View Post
    I neglected to mention that one of the things that Hitler also promised was to take Germany 'back' - back to the once and future mythological past - the Reich.
    Ein volk, ein Reich.
    Fred ...your original history comment to my post neglected the context. My historical comment is correct. Hitler was not elected to the leadership of Germany, he was appointed by Hindenburg. You should check your history.

    "...Although Hitler lost the presidential election of 1932, he succeeded Hindenburg as head of state only two years later, when Hindenburg died in 1934. After the president's death Hitler abolished the office entirely, and replaced it with the new position of F├╝hrer und Reichskanzler ("Leader and Reich Chancellor"), cementing his dictatorship."



  19. #539
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    And you hosspuller, in order to attempt to make your point were the one to use Hitler as your example of why the 'populace' needs to be heavily armed.
    That was your 'context' and it was inaccurate and inappropriate.


    As for my understanding of history?
    I don't pretend to be an expert like you, but my undergraduate degree was a Double Honours in Literature and History, and my graduate school area of study was Weimar Germany.
    Not much I know, especially compared to Wikipedia.
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  20. #540
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fred View Post
    And you hosspuller, in order to attempt to make your point were the one to use Hitler as your example of why the 'populace' needs to be heavily armed.
    That was your 'context' and it was inaccurate and inappropriate.


    As for my understanding of history?
    I don't pretend to be an expert like you, but my undergraduate degree was a Double Honours in Literature and History, and my graduate school area of study was Weimar Germany.
    Not much I know, especially compared to Wikipedia.
    As you seem to claim great knowledge & learning in the area, Why is is my context inaccurate and inappropriate? If the Jews of Warsaw were armed as Americans are, The resistance would be quite different. If Jews were armed as the Korean-American shopkeepers in LA , Kristallnacht would be different.

    As to my postings, are the facts wrong? Do not disparage knowledge whatever the source.. Least you become a fossil buried in the mud of life.



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