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  1. #461
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    Quote Originally Posted by MHM View Post
    The deaths that occur from cars or alcohol or the combination of both are tragic. However, those deaths are generally accidents. It's pretty rare for someone to say, "I'm going to drink myself to death with this bottle of vodka, and I'm going down to the local school (or mall, or church, or hospital), and kill as many other people as I can with that bottle."

    And before anyone can get a driver's license, they have to go through the process to get a learner's permit, then practice driving with a licensed adult in the car, then take a driving test to prove they know how to operate the vehicle. If they don't pass the driving test, they have to practice more and take the test again and pass it before they get a license. Why shouldn't there be a similar process for people who want to own guns?

    To say "You can't fix everything" is not a good enough excuse not to fix anything. Weren't there three mass shootings just last week? The mall shooting, the school shooting, and the hospital shooting. In ONE WEEK. Three in one year would be too many. But in one week?!?

    Come on, people. We can do better.
    I don't consider someone drinking, then getting in a car to drive, and wrecking it and killing someone an accident. It is vehicular homicide. They made a conscious decision to drink and drive.

    Nor do I consider someone who drinks , and then beats up his family an "accident".

    The common thread in all of these mass shootings is that the person is mentally ill. I think we should start there, and reopen all of the mental institutions, and hold family members accountable, if the mentally ill family member has access to guns in the home. If you have a mentally ill relative, roommate, friend that has access to your home, you damn sure better not have guns where they can get them. And I don't think a flimsy locked cabinet is adequate.


    7 members found this post helpful.

  2. #462
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    Jan. 4, 2007
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    Quote Originally Posted by grayarabpony View Post
    I heard that interview (by Melissa Block) on All Things Considered and I didn't find her reaction to be unprofessional. I wasn't thrilled to hear that people want the gun to relive their days in the military. The vets I knew did not want to relive their days in the military. They'd rather they could not remember the things they saw.

    Here's a link to the interview if anyone's curious. It's the story titled "One Gun Used in Conn. attack has 'Rambo Effect'. http://www.npr.org/templates/rundown...ate=12-17-2012
    That is not the one I heard and am speaking about, but the Mc Laughin debates.
    Don't know the name of that one lady reporter that was speaking.
    She was making hay for her anti gun agenda while the news were fresh.
    Not very professional from a reporter, no matter how upset we may be about what happened.

    Others I am sure also held strong opinions, but were trying not to say much, as they should have right then, but she kept going on and on.


    1 members found this post helpful.

  3. #463
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    Apr. 17, 2002
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    between the barn and the pond
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    Quote Originally Posted by grayarabpony View Post
    I heard that interview (by Melissa Block) on All Things Considered and I didn't find her reaction to be unprofessional. I wasn't thrilled to hear that people want the gun to relive their days in the military. The vets I knew did not want to relive their days in the military. They'd rather they could not remember the things they saw.

    Here's a link to the interview if anyone's curious. It's the story titled "One Gun Used in Conn. attack has 'Rambo Effect'. http://www.npr.org/templates/rundown...ate=12-17-2012
    Thank you for the correction on the interviewer. We disagree on her reaction..the link doesn't work.



  4. #464
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    Dec. 17, 2012
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bluey View Post
    Yes, the more swimming pools, the more people that sadly drowned.
    Yes, we need to ask the government to ban swimming pools, so people won't drown.

    What you see why people have guns is shortsighted.
    No, people don't have them because it is their right to own guns, so they buy a gun.

    For those that have guns, they are one more tool to do what they want to do with them.
    Yes, those that hate guns will never understand that.
    We will just have to agree to disagree about that.

    I think that football, NASCAR, boxing, driving down the highways, you name so much others do is insane and some of it hurts people, but would never assume to ask for bans of what they have a need or interest on, just because I may not.
    So what are these uses for guns?

    All those other things have uses, valuable uses, and are in our community for good reason. Ban swimming pools and the vast majority of people will never learn to swim, causing far more drowning. Ban cars and the economy will implode as will society, ban football or other sports and obesity will rise and stress levels will increase due to less recreational time. All have important parts and primary uses which do not involve the deliberate death or injury of self or others.

    Guns on the other hand have no other significant purpose other than for killing or threatening. They will not be missed in society. Infact eliminating them creates a benefit of saving lives as has been shown in many countries around the world.


    4 members found this post helpful.

  5. #465
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    Apr. 29, 2002
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    This conversation is getting absurd. People are jabbing at other people (for instance, it was suggested that I do not care about the lives of my students or my co-workers because I am not willing to walk into an elementary school armed.) Please, tell me more about how much I care about my students. After all, you live my life each day, walk in my shoes each day, and are a teacher by profession, right?

    Really? I know some of us on COTH love our guns, but step back and take a moment to think about what you are saying to others. We're all reeling from this tragedy, so please, we can leave the personal jabs out of it.


    7 members found this post helpful.

  6. #466
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    Dec. 17, 2012
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    Quote Originally Posted by jetsmom View Post
    Alchohol has killed and injured more people than guns in this country. Should we ban alchohol? (And you saw how well Prohibition worked). Mentally ill people have killed more people in this country (in mass killings, serial killings, murder suicides)...should we lock up everyone that is mentally ill, in case they decide to kill someone?

    Living 15 min from Mexico, where guns are banned, yet the city next to me was named the most dangerous city in the world, tends to make me think that banning guns is a fairy tale. People that use guns to commit crimes will still obtain them.

    FWIW I do agree with an assault weapon ban/automatic ban.
    again with flawed logic. The purpose of alcohol is not to kill. Its a beverage for Gods sake! It plays an important part the relaxation or entertainment sector of our societies. If used responsibly it can promote social gathering, celebrations etc..

    The only safe use of guns is no use at all. So why have them?


    4 members found this post helpful.

  7. #467
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    Feb. 25, 2012
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    Montana
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    Quote Originally Posted by starhorse View Post
    This conversation is getting absurd. People are jabbing at other people (for instance, it was suggested that I do not care about the lives of my students or my co-workers because I am not willing to walk into an elementary school armed.) .
    Yes, that is ridicuous, and by the same token, from the other side I have been told (on FB) that I am responsible for those deaths, that I am going straight to hell, that I obviously enjoy and encourage the "random shooting of strangers" (as opposed to their regular shooting, I guess). And it renders any discussion completely pointless.


    6 members found this post helpful.

  8. #468
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    Dec. 18, 2002
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    Chesterton, IN US
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    I'm assuming you mean there is no legitimate use for a gun in an urban setting. A gun came in real handy when my friend's bull was hit by a car.


    7 members found this post helpful.

  9. #469
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    Dec. 17, 2012
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    Quote Originally Posted by jetsmom View Post
    I don't consider someone drinking, then getting in a car to drive, and wrecking it and killing someone an accident. It is vehicular homicide. They made a conscious decision to drink and drive.

    Nor do I consider someone who drinks , and then beats up his family an "accident".

    The common thread in all of these mass shootings is that the person is mentally ill. I think we should start there, and reopen all of the mental institutions, and hold family members accountable, if the mentally ill family member has access to guns in the home. If you have a mentally ill relative, roommate, friend that has access to your home, you damn sure better not have guns where they can get them. And I don't think a flimsy locked cabinet is adequate.
    transportation such as cars are a pivotal part of society so we cannot ban them. Guns are not.

    A drink driver makes a tragic error in judgment. Their intention isn't to kill, its to travel when they're unfit to do so. The laws are already in place to try and ensure this occurrence is kept to a minimum. But complete irradiation is impossible.

    If the laws were in place to keep gun deaths to a minimum, like eliminating gun ownership, then many Americans wouldn't die each year, as has been shown by the results of such policy in other countries.


    5 members found this post helpful.

  10. #470
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    Apr. 29, 2002
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    Quote Originally Posted by lilitiger2 View Post
    Yes, that is ridicuous, and by the same token, from the other side I have been told (on FB) that I am responsible for those deaths, that I am going straight to hell, that I obviously enjoy and encourage the "random shooting of strangers" (as opposed to their regular shooting, I guess). And it renders any discussion completely pointless.
    I'm really sad that anyone has said that to you. Of course, being pro-gun does not mean you are pro-massacres, or pro-tragedy. I wish people would take the personal insults and attacks out of this and speak rationally. We all want the same thing, we just have two opposing ideas about how to get there.


    7 members found this post helpful.

  11. #471
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    Dec. 17, 2012
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    Quote Originally Posted by jherold View Post
    I'm assuming you mean there is no legitimate use for a gun in an urban setting. A gun came in real handy when my friend's bull was hit by a car.
    The uses are clear in law enforcement, small in farming, and none in other areas. And thats exactly how the weapons should be available.


    3 members found this post helpful.

  12. #472
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    Dec. 30, 2000
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    The land of heat waves and unbearable humidity
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    It's NOT the gun but the person's fault. I was assulated by a 9mm (Gun pressed up against my head by my ex and he put a knife to my throat) and I BLAMED HIM!!!!
    He was drunk and pissed that I was asleep in the bed instead of hanging out with him. Still his Damn fault!

    I own guns and I know how to shoot them It's personal protection from my ex, who is still out there. No Restraining order is going to stop him from coming after me. I arm myself to protect myself. I love my Sig Sauer .45 P220.

    Ever wonder why the Liberal media doesn't report stories where guns were used to stop a psycho from killing a lot of people?

    Andy Dean said it best: "A fact to consider, "There have been 5 school shootings in Europe during the past 10 years with 10 or more dead, and only 2 in the U.S. - Virginia Tech and Sandy Hook. Despite much stricter gun control, Europe has had more mass school killings than the U.S." My thought - we must confront the real problem of mental illness and stop kidding ourselves that gun control will reduce school shootings. We must give teachers the chance to protect students by implementing an 'air marshal' style program in schools."
    "Common sense is so rare nowadays, it should be classified as a super power."-Craig Bear Laubscher


    7 members found this post helpful.

  13. #473
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    Sep. 4, 2006
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    Quote Originally Posted by alicen View Post
    The thing is - the weapons the Constitution granted one to bear were fllintlock pistols and muzzle loading rifles.
    Utterly irrelevant. By your logic the only forms of speech protected under the 1st Amendment would be spoken words, handwritten letters, and books printed on the same presses they had in the 18th century.

    Sounds absurd when your "logic" is applied elsewhere, doesn't it?


    Quote Originally Posted by MHM View Post
    The deaths that occur from cars or alcohol or the combination of both are tragic. However, those deaths are generally accidents. It's pretty rare for someone to say, "I'm going to drink myself to death with this bottle of vodka, and I'm going down to the local school (or mall, or church, or hospital), and kill as many other people as I can with that bottle."

    And before anyone can get a driver's license, they have to go through the process to get a learner's permit, then practice driving with a licensed adult in the car, then take a driving test to prove they know how to operate the vehicle. If they don't pass the driving test, they have to practice more and take the test again and pass it before they get a license. Why shouldn't there be a similar process for people who want to own guns?

    To say "You can't fix everything" is not a good enough excuse not to fix anything. Weren't there three mass shootings just last week? The mall shooting, the school shooting, and the hospital shooting. In ONE WEEK. Three in one year would be too many. But in one week?!?

    Come on, people. We can do better.
    An apples to bicycles comparison. Owning firearms is a Constitutionally-protected right. Driving is not. Driving on public roads is a privilege, not a right. If you want to drive on your own property, no license needed.


    8 members found this post helpful.

  14. #474
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    Oct. 18, 2008
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bluey View Post
    Who remembers about a year or so ago the shooter of kids in some island retreat in Sweden, from all places, the country of supposedly rational, civilized beyond words, a model of wonderful, perfect, beautiful people?

    Crazy happens any place, horribly crazy too.
    it happened in Norway, not Sweden. Utøya was politically motivated and executed by a man who planned the attack for several years and in great detail.

    Quote Originally Posted by DownYonder View Post
    I haven't read this whole thread, so don't know if this has been mentioned, but I will point out that Norway has very strict gun control laws, yet Anders Breivik was able to legally obtain several firearms in Norway, which he used to kill some 70 people and wound another 100+ at a youth camp in July of last year. So yes, it does happen even in countries with strict gun control.
    that was our first, and hopefully last, massacre on Norwegian soil. we DO have very strict gun control laws, but that does not mean that guns are, in any way, banned here. ABB was extremely dedicated and spent several years planning and executing his attack both in Oslo and on Utøya. he joined the gun club, did the practices, took the tests, fooled everyone. he rented a farm so that he could buy fertilizer to make his bombs, he bought the clips one at a time with appropriate time passing between...

    the point of our gun laws is NOT to deny law obiding citizens and responsible gun owners the right to own a gun, but to stop impulsive gun aquirements (suicides, school shootings and so on), to keep the number of guns available for criminals to obtain to a minimum and to make sure that guns remain something that we respect, appreciate and in some ways, fear.

    after the Utøya tragedy, noone here screamed about gun control or mental care. instead the police went under scrutany, their response time and at times clumsyness. some bad decissions made by the first responders and some made by the rescue and others made by politicians.


    9 members found this post helpful.

  15. #475
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    Sep. 24, 2004
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    Many of the posts say there is no use for a gun other than killing people.
    I will say this attitude is increasing because of the increasing disconnect between urban dwellers and the food chain. Most urban dwellers will be horrified to see the source and manner of their food. Steaks don't grow in plastic boxes and come from bright stores with music in the air. Urban dwellers are used to having other people 24/7 within 4 inches of their living space. Some fly over folks don't have a neighbor within 4 miles. I was born & raised in mid-town, new york city. Rural life (not suburbs) is different.

    Try to understand that...


    9 members found this post helpful.

  16. #476
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    Dec. 17, 2012
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nikki^ View Post
    It's NOT the gun but the person's fault. I was assulated by a 9mm (Gun pressed up against my head by my ex and he put a knife to my throat) and I BLAMED HIM!!!!
    He was drunk and pissed that I was asleep in the bed instead of hanging out with him. Still his Damn fault!

    I own guns and I know how to shoot them It's personal protection from my ex, who is still out there. No Restraining order is going to stop him from coming after me. I arm myself to protect myself. I love my Sig Sauer .45 P220.

    Ever wonder why the Liberal media doesn't report stories where guns were used to stop a psycho from killing a lot of people?

    Andy Dean said it best: "A fact to consider, "There have been 5 school shootings in Europe during the past 10 years with 10 or more dead, and only 2 in the U.S. - Virginia Tech and Sandy Hook. Despite much stricter gun control, Europe has had more mass school killings than the U.S." My thought - we must confront the real problem of mental illness and stop kidding ourselves that gun control will reduce school shootings. We must give teachers the chance to protect students by implementing an 'air marshal' style program in schools."
    in the last 50 year More than 50% of the worlds incidents of mass murder by guns have occurred in the US, which has only 6% of the worlds population.


    4 members found this post helpful.

  17. #477
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    Dec. 17, 2012
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    Quote Originally Posted by hosspuller View Post
    Many of the posts say there is no use for a gun other than killing people.
    I will say this attitude is increasing because of the increasing disconnect between urban dwellers and the food chain. Most urban dwellers will be horrified to see the source and manner of their food. Steaks don't grow in plastic boxes and come from bright stores with music in the air. Urban dwellers are used to having other people 24/7 within 4 inches of their living space. Some fly over folks don't have a neighbor within 4 miles. I was born & raised in mid-town, new york city. Rural life (not suburbs) is different.

    Try to understand that...
    Ok, 1 reason in remote settings.

    However, since its not a protection issue maybe your guns could be locked away at the local police station and you could collect them when you go hunting. That way your crazy relative couldnt steal the gun and shoot you while you sleep before heading to the local preschool.


    3 members found this post helpful.

  18. #478
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    Sep. 24, 2004
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xmas View Post
    More than 50% of the worlds incidents of mass murder by gun in the last 50 years have occurred in the US, which has only 6% of the worlds population.
    Yet 100% of the world's mass murders by their own gov't for the last 100 years has been in Europe, Asia and the Middle east.


    9 members found this post helpful.

  19. #479
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    Feb. 6, 2003
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    1 members found this post helpful.

  20. #480
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    Feb. 25, 2012
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    Montana
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    Quote Originally Posted by hosspuller View Post
    Many of the posts say there is no use for a gun other than killing people.
    I will say this attitude is increasing because of the increasing disconnect between urban dwellers and the food chain. Most urban dwellers will be horrified to see the source and manner of their food. Steaks don't grow in plastic boxes and come from bright stores with music in the air. Urban dwellers are used to having other people 24/7 within 4 inches of their living space. Some fly over folks don't have a neighbor within 4 miles. I was born & raised in mid-town, new york city. Rural life (not suburbs) is different.

    Try to understand that...
    Boy is that ever true. I know people horrified by hunting but happy to eat commerically produced meat (and have leather saddles, etc)! Actually as long as they let others hunt, I don't really care, but that urban/rural split I think is a big issue. And yes, you can pee out side at our place too, undershirt, bra, or not!


    4 members found this post helpful.

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