The Chronicle of the Horse
MagazineNewsHorse SportsHorse CareCOTH StoreVoicesThe Chronicle UntackedDirectoriesMarketplaceDates & Results
 
Page 16 of 28 FirstFirst ... 6141516171826 ... LastLast
Results 301 to 320 of 542
  1. #301
    Join Date
    Nov. 6, 2001
    Location
    Fairfax
    Posts
    1,871

    Default

    Terrible, terrible tragedy. But in my opinion, this thread is looking at the wrong problem.

    We have tons of restrictions on guns. The law abiding citizens follow them. The idiots don't -- nothing you can do about that except take guns away. Can't do it -- our constitution guarantees us the right to own guns for very good reasons. If you feel strongly about it, work to get the constitution changed -- Good luck with that. Our founding fathers felt guaranteeing citizens the right to see to their own protections ( as a citizenry) was a right granted by God, not to be interfered with by the government. rights granted by the government can be taken away by the government. Our constitution is based on the belief that our fundamental rights are granted by God, which protects citizens from government interference. That liberty has responsibilities attached as well as risks. The sometimes terrible risk was on display friday in connecticut.

    I think it would be a lot more useful (given that gun rights in this country will remain largely intact unless we have significant consitutional change) to focus on how do we identify individuals at risk for committing this violence? another step would be to stop wallowing in these episodes. I watched them interview folks from the area this morning, people who had nothing to do with the tragedy but clearly wallowing in their 5 minutes of fame. We turn that town into it's own reality tv show. How many ill people watch this coverage and see their chance for fame in committing a similar act? All the talk about the issue being guns adds to that by making it not the fault of the shooter. It's not the guns, people, but a sick idiot whose actions caused the massacre. Lets acknowledge the victims, but stop trying to explain his actions away by focusing the discussion on gun laws.


    8 members found this post helpful.

  2. #302
    Join Date
    Apr. 25, 2011
    Posts
    856

    Default

    No one, except police and the military, needs to shoot 100 rounds in seconds.


    11 members found this post helpful.

  3. #303
    Join Date
    Jan. 4, 2007
    Location
    TX
    Posts
    43,108

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by happymom View Post
    No one, except police and the military, needs to shoot 100 rounds in seconds.
    And that applies here how?

    Read the post above you for some more rational ideas on this.


    6 members found this post helpful.

  4. #304
    Join Date
    Apr. 25, 2011
    Posts
    856

    Default

    20 children shot many, many times in seconds is irrational.


    3 members found this post helpful.

  5. #305
    Join Date
    Oct. 31, 2001
    Location
    West of insanity, east of apathy, deep in the heart of Texas.
    Posts
    15,797

    Default

    [QUOTE=starhorse;6718940]
    Quote Originally Posted by ESG View Post
    Just because you "would say" it, doesn't make it factual.

    I don't understand how you are going to argue with numbers. Biases lie in opinions, not in numbers. (It's quoted in the NYT, as well. Feel free to comb through the cases and see if you find a different number. http://www.nytimes.com/2012/12/15/op...f-silence.html)


    QUOTE: "And that, my friend, is your problem. This world has always been a war zone."



    However you want to say the world is a war zone, it's not something I am comfortable exposing my students to when they are in a building to learn and be educated.
    Then be glad you weren't one of the teachers in Sandy Hook. Or pray that you're not teaching at whatever school is next in line for something like this. Because it WILL happen again. And it will KEEP happening until school security is designed to actively keep students and teachers safe, rather than using the "hope and pray" method.


    There has got to be another solution than to say "You are safe nowhere. We all need weapons. Including your teachers. Now, let me adjust my glock before we start our partner reading."
    Why? And if there were, don't you think someone would have come up with it by now?

    As a teacher, I would not be willing to carry a gun, nor would I want any of my co-workers to carry a gun.
    So, the safety of your students and your fellow staff members isn't important to you?

    There has got to be a better solution.
    There isn't.

    Think seriously -- how many situations have you been in where you've wondered how someone was allowed to have a driver's license? Or your coworker has proved their idiocy for the 20th time... that day? You think arming all of these people, allowing them and encouraging them to walk around with a loaded gun is the best bet?
    No one said that. And there are gun control laws in place that dictate who may and may not legally carry. And since the criminals/criminally insane don't give a rat's patoot about the laws, isn't it prudent to make sure that you are at least as safe as you can be? And not at the mercy of someone off their meds or with intent to do you harm?

    At the end of the day, we aren't going to agree, but I would really like everyone to think carefully before suggesting that arming everyone in a school is a safe idea, or would benefit our students in the long run.
    Well, if being alive is a benefit, I'd say yes, it's a damned good idea to arm teachers. And any other staff that wish to carry. And maybe some of those teachers could teach their students about the responsibility of carrying a weapon at the same time. Win, win, win, from what I see.


    Additionally, after some of the comments I've read in this thread and beyond today, I'd like to make the following announcement.


    The funeral for My Hope for the Future will be held today, 12/15/12, at 7:00. Also involved in the incident was My Belief in Humanity and Optimism. All are survived by A Prayer for Logical Thinking. Red thumbs can be given in lieu of flowers.
    Then I feel sorry for you, because you've already given up. And the bad folks have won. What a nice lesson for your students.
    In loving memory of Laura Jahnke.
    A life lived by example, done too soon.
    www.caringbridge.org/page/laurajahnke/


    5 members found this post helpful.

  6. #306
    Join Date
    Jan. 4, 2007
    Location
    TX
    Posts
    43,108

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by happymom View Post
    20 children shot many, many times in seconds is irrational.
    Irrational is judging without enough data.

    "100 shots a second?"
    "20 children shot in seconds?"

    Irrational is killing those kids and adults, no matter how.
    Is irrational to reduce this tragedy to a political football of "ban guns and this would not happen, the world will be safe".


    5 members found this post helpful.

  7. #307
    Join Date
    Apr. 25, 2011
    Posts
    856

    Default

    Chall


    Originally Posted by happymom
    Why is mandating gun ownership unlike mandating car ownership, health care, abortion, or attendance of church. I would go to jail first, thank you.
    ?? Can you clarify? Health care is mandated, the others are not. I'm not understanding..
    A bit off topic, but...

    Yes, I oppose the healthcare mandate since it provides no affordability and does nothing to control costs.

    Carry on with the discussion at hand! Sorry....



  8. #308
    Join Date
    Apr. 25, 2011
    Posts
    856

    Default

    It is irrational to ignore issues and deny their existence. We WILL have this discussion, not later, not the next time, now.


    4 members found this post helpful.

  9. #309
    Join Date
    Aug. 28, 2006
    Posts
    10,033

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Kenike View Post
    I know that. But in the first half of the 20th century they were considered one-and-the-same. It wasn't until the latter half that bi-polar received a name and the two were deemed completely different and separate diseases.
    Your original post on the subject indicated just the opposite, which is why I posted saying that bipolar and schizophrenia are different.



  10. #310
    Join Date
    Aug. 28, 2006
    Posts
    10,033

    Default

    I'm not sure why people keep bringing up Switzerland and Israel. Entirely different cultures. If the US was ever to become like Israel I'd move to Canada. Switzerland is a country that has been dedicated to peace and neutrality for nearly 200 years.


    3 members found this post helpful.

  11. #311
    Join Date
    Jan. 4, 2007
    Location
    TX
    Posts
    43,108

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by grayarabpony View Post
    I'm not sure why people keep bringing up Switzerland and Israel. Entirely different cultures. If the US was ever to become like Israel I'd move to Canada. Switzerland is a country that has been dedicated to peace and neutrality for nearly 200 years.
    Naw, Switzerland has been lucky that there are no resources there anyone wants and a very tricky geography in their favor.
    No one has had any real interest in annexing them.
    If Hitler had won, Switzerland would have become one more fascist satellite country, if it liked it or not.


    5 members found this post helpful.

  12. #312
    Join Date
    Jan. 26, 2006
    Location
    Fort Worth, Texas
    Posts
    4,737

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by grayarabpony View Post
    I'm not sure why people keep bringing up Switzerland and Israel. Entirely different cultures..


    Mexico would be closer to the same ... there is a Constitutional Right for gun ownership by the population in Mexico, but guns are outlawed by the government....since 2006 about 47,000 mostly 100% unarmed civilians have been murdered in Mexico... only 13,000 last year

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-latin-america-16518267

    two of the drug cartel members voted thumbs down on this one
    Last edited by clanter; Dec. 16, 2012 at 06:29 PM.


    3 members found this post helpful.

  13. #313
    Join Date
    Jan. 26, 2006
    Location
    Fort Worth, Texas
    Posts
    4,737

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Bluey View Post
    Naw, Switzerland has been lucky that there are no resources .
    It would be like taking over Dallas/Ft Worth... except the DFW area is twice as large, populations are close to the same... and no one wants it either



  14. #314
    Join Date
    Aug. 28, 2006
    Posts
    10,033

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by clanter View Post
    Mexico would be closer to the same ... there is a Constitutional Right for gun ownership by the population in Mexico, but guns are outlawed by the government....since 2006 about 47,000 mostly 100% unarmed civilians have been murdered in Mexico... only 13,000 last year

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-latin-america-16518267

    one of the drug cartel members voted thumbs down on this one
    Mexico is closer to -- what? Mexico isn't like the US either.



  15. #315
    Join Date
    Aug. 28, 2006
    Posts
    10,033

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Bluey View Post
    Naw, Switzerland has been lucky that there are no resources there anyone wants and a very tricky geography in their favor.
    No one has had any real interest in annexing them.
    If Hitler had won, Switzerland would have become one more fascist satellite country, if it liked it or not.
    Why that's true, Switzerland just has banks (going all the way back to the 1700s) and who wants all that money!?


    2 members found this post helpful.

  16. #316
    Join Date
    Jan. 26, 2006
    Location
    Fort Worth, Texas
    Posts
    4,737

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by grayarabpony View Post
    Mexico is closer to -- what? Mexico isn't like the US either.
    Like the US constitition the is the right for gun ownsership:

    The Political Constitution of the United Mexican States

    Article 10: Citizens of the republic may, for their protection, own guns and arms in their homes

    But the US wishes to model itself after Mexico whose government then outlawed the ownership


    2 members found this post helpful.

  17. #317
    Join Date
    Jul. 31, 2007
    Posts
    15,608

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Bluey View Post
    Irrational is judging without enough data.

    "100 shots a second?"
    "20 children shot in seconds?"

    Irrational is killing those kids and adults, no matter how.
    Is irrational to reduce this tragedy to a political football of "ban guns and this would not happen, the world will be safe".
    You haven't actually made an argument for not banning guns, Bluey. That's because it's possible that *all* options listed are irrational. Pointing out the fallacy in the other guy's argument doesn't make yours valid by default.]

    Carry on, folks.
    The armchair saddler
    Politically Pro-Cat


    4 members found this post helpful.

  18. #318
    Join Date
    Aug. 28, 2006
    Posts
    10,033

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by clanter View Post
    Like the US constitition the is the right for gun ownsership:

    The Political Constitution of the United Mexican States

    Article 10: Citizens of the republic may, for their protection, own guns and arms in their homes

    But the US wishes to model itself after Mexico whose government then outlawed the ownership
    No, it doesn't.

    Where do you get your news from?



  19. #319
    Join Date
    Nov. 28, 2000
    Location
    Ontario, Canada
    Posts
    11,152

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Bluey View Post
    Last week or so, yet ANOTHER plane went down, killing how many?

    You know, we hear all the time about that.
    Who would want to get in such a coffin as a plane is and think it is a safe way to get from here to there in those metal contraptions?

    We really ought to demand all are sensible and JUST SAY NO to planes, quit flying, so there won't be any more such horrible deaths.

    We can get around just fine on the ground and even in ships, can't we?
    Who needs planes anyway?
    Planes kill people!

    The statistics say for the miles flown, planes are one of the safest ways to get where you are going, but statistics lie, as we know, just look at the horror plane accidents are!

    From the millions of guns out there in responsible hands, those few that are used to kill innocent people show us how deadly and horrible guns are.
    Clearly we need to ban guns.
    Obviously we are not to be trusted with guns, just as we should not trust planes to fly safely.
    Make us safe, ban all that can be and at times is unsafe.

    It has probably already been pointed out , but this is a completely irrational argument.
    Yes, people die using planes, cars, boats,etc -, in fact my brother in law was killed in a terrible plane accident - but the intent and sole purpose of these items is something benign - travel. That people may die as a result of using them is an accident.
    This is in direct contrast to firearms, whose sole purpose is ONLY killing.
    Guns have no other purpose.

    As for 'responsible gunowners' (a phrase repeated many times on these threads/ by the gun apologists).
    I am sure that a middleaged, middleclass, white, woman, kindergarten teacher with a large gun collection also considered herself a 'responsible gun owner' and quite possibly argued against gun control.
    At least until early Friday morning.



    What really upsets and bewilders me is that pretty well the FIRST response of the gun apologists and gun lobby to this terrible tragedy was NOT shock, horror, pity and profound sadness - but, it seems, they immediately went into defense mode -
    'Guns don't kill people' - 'blame single moms!!' -'put god back in the classroom' 'it's Obama's fault'! - and someone on this bb even said words to the effect that they would not be willing to give up even one bit of their 'freedom' to own guns - that the deaths of innocent children is a reasonable price to pay.

    What the hell??
    Why is not the first or second response, the normal human response- after the shock, pity, horror to say - how can we stop this? what is wrong with our culture? and what can we do to TRY to prevent this from happening again.
    A FINE ROMANCE - JC Reg Thoroughbred - GOLD Premium CSHA - ISR/OLDNA Approved
    CSHA Brickenden Stallion Award Winner - for Performance offspring.
    Please visit A Fine Romance on FB!


    8 members found this post helpful.

  20. #320
    Join Date
    Oct. 20, 2007
    Location
    Wonderland
    Posts
    2,595

    Default

    One coroner said of the first 5 bodies that he examined that no child had been hit less than 3 times. One child had been hit 11 times. If teachers are going to have to respond to that kind of firing power with a hand gun, they sure as hell better be crack shots.


    2 members found this post helpful.

Similar Threads

  1. Counties/States with strict neuter laws?
    By shea'smom in forum The Menagerie
    Replies: 20
    Last Post: Jun. 12, 2012, 06:23 PM
  2. Differences in TBs from different countries
    By Starda01 in forum Racing
    Replies: 10
    Last Post: Sep. 7, 2011, 02:11 PM
  3. Vacations - other countries
    By MyGiantPony in forum Off Topic
    Replies: 18
    Last Post: Apr. 22, 2011, 06:14 PM
  4. How strict is AHS in approving TB mares?
    By flyracing in forum Sport Horse Breeding
    Replies: 27
    Last Post: Feb. 23, 2011, 01:57 PM
  5. How strict are you about Fescue?
    By DLee in forum Sport Horse Breeding
    Replies: 10
    Last Post: Apr. 15, 2010, 12:55 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
randomness