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  1. #421
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    twice. I just moved my shirt so the perp could see I was carrying. Funny how fast they turn the other way.


    3 members found this post helpful.

  2. #422
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xmas View Post
    My heart bleeds. Since when does government policy please everyone?

    Surely there's got to be more ligitimate reasons than this given the obvious costs in life.
    Gov't policy should reflect the Constitution, not be driven by an emotional response.
    Costs of life? Whose exactly? If citizens weren't armed, criminals would have a free for all. The reasons for the massacre in Connecticut goes much deeper than guns. But of course, let's not look at psychotropic drugs given to adolescent children. Instead of encouraging our children to exercise and burn off steam, we deem them ADD and drug them.
    It's only when a mosquito lands on your privates that you realize there is always a way to solve problems without using violence. fb meme.


    6 members found this post helpful.

  3. #423
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    American living in a country with strict gun laws here. We have gun crime too. Mostly due to criminals who of course will get their hands on anything. As of yet no mass shootings of school kids or any other mass shootings by ordinary citizens. Last I checked these mass shootings weren't carried out by criminals. And contrary to popular belief you can legally own guns here too. Much stricter controls of course. I live in the country and have animals which are considered livestock and therefore could get a gun and permit.

    I'm not against owning guns by the way.

    An editorial in the paper yesterday made me think. A reporter was over visiting friends in Colorado when the theatre shooting happened. One of her friends piped up, "you know I always think about that when I go to the movies. If someone comes in here with a gun, we're all sitting ducks". Thing is that one of life's daily issues you don't have to factor in over here. And maybe now as I'm an outsider looking in, some of the views I'm seeing are so paranoid. It's not about protecting oneself, it's like waking up everyday expecting a fight in addition to normal everyday pressures. It's a bit sad really.

    Terri
    COTH, keeping popcorn growers in business for years.

    "I need your grace to remind me to find my own." Snow Patrol-Chasing Cars. This line reminds me why I have horses.


    9 members found this post helpful.

  4. #424
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bluey View Post

    To explain all gun uses to those with such strong preconceived ideas of their evilness....
    Guns are inanimate objects. They are not inherently good or evil. Unfortunately, some of the people who use them are evil, or crazy. The question is how to lessen the use of guns by those dangerous people.

    Quote Originally Posted by Equilibrium View Post
    American living in a country with strict gun laws here. We have gun crime too. Mostly due to criminals who of course will get their hands on anything. As of yet no mass shootings of school kids or any other mass shootings by ordinary citizens. Last I checked these mass shootings weren't carried out by criminals.
    Amen to that.

    I learned to shoot as a kid, when I used to go to the shooting range with my father, though I haven't touched a gun in many years. I understand that people might want a gun for hunting or protection.

    I'm still waiting for anyone to give a valid reason for a civilian to have a type of gun that was designed for military use to shoot as many people as possible.

    If your aim is so bad that you need to shoot 30 bullets to take down a deer (or a burglar), you probably shouldn't have a gun in the first place.


    6 members found this post helpful.

  5. #425
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    Dec. 17, 2012
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    Quote Originally Posted by kathy s. View Post
    Gov't policy should reflect the Constitution, not be driven by an emotional response.
    Costs of life? Whose exactly? If citizens weren't armed, criminals would have a free for all. The reasons for the massacre in Connecticut goes much deeper than guns. But of course, let's not look at psychotropic drugs given to adolescent children. Instead of encouraging our children to exercise and burn off steam, we deem them ADD and drug them.
    If the consitution results in laws that cause unnecessary death then it should be changed.

    Other countries with few guns don't have problems with crime so thats a cop out

    Sure, take a look at ADD and drugs. But chances are if he didnt have easy access to 3 guns this wouldnt be such a tragic story.


    7 members found this post helpful.

  6. #426
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    Nov. 28, 2000
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    Quote Originally Posted by MHM View Post
    Guns are inanimate objects. They are not inherently good or evil. Unfortunately, some of the people who use them are evil, or crazy. The question is how to lessen the use of guns by those dangerous people.

    I learned to shoot as a kid, when I used to go to the shooting range with my father, though I haven't touched a gun in many years. I understand that people might want a gun for hunting or protection.

    I'm still waiting for anyone to give a valid reason for a civilian to have a type of gun that was designed for military use to shoot as many people as possible.

    If your aim is so bad that you need to shoot 30 bullets to take down a deer (or a burglar), you probably shouldn't have a gun in the first place.
    Amen to what both Terri and MHM said.
    No one can give any valid reasons it seems.

    And for the record, not that it should matter - I too learned to shoot at a very early age, my step-grandfather was a gun collector and hunter, and I was given a 22 as a child.
    We live on a farm and have a rifle, which came from my husband's father, who also grew up in the country and handling guns.
    The rifle is not for protection. Not for hunting. But just in case an animal is in distress and can't wait until the vet arrives.
    I hope to never use it.

    It is not a 'toy' as someone else called her husband's gun.



    http://prospect.org/article/ten-argu...y-theyre-wrong


    3 members found this post helpful.

  7. #427
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    I just want to say a big THANK YOU to Xmas and Equilibrium for participating in this thread, and for keeping their posts polite and reasonable, and for providing opinions and information that are totally pertinent to this thread.

    I have been wondering about this many times, too:

    Quote Originally Posted by Xmas View Post
    If the constitution results in laws that cause unnecessary death then it should be changed.
    Why would it be so bad to try and do something about that 2nd Amendment?

    Of course, as a foreigner living in the US, I am probably not entitled to even ask that sacrilegious question...
    Ottbs - The finish line is only the beginning!


    8 members found this post helpful.

  8. #428
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    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/thrity...b_2308529.html

    This is the best statement that I have read so far.


    And yes, thank you again to Terri/Equilibrium and Xmas for adding their insights and experience living in countries with strict gun control laws.
    I'm sorry that Xmas was treated so rudely.
    A FINE ROMANCE - JC Reg Thoroughbred - GOLD Premium CSHA - ISR/OLDNA Approved
    CSHA Brickenden Stallion Award Winner - for Performance offspring.
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    8 members found this post helpful.

  9. #429
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    Quote Originally Posted by sophie View Post
    I just want to say a big THANK YOU to Xmas and Equilibrium for participating in this thread, and for keeping their posts polite and reasonable, and for providing opinions and information that are totally pertinent to this thread.
    Ditto.

    Why would it be so bad to try and do something about that 2nd Amendment?
    I'm an American, and I wonder the same thing. It's not as if we haven't updated the laws in this country a few times in the past. For crazy stuff like abolishing slavery, and giving women the right to vote. Little things like that.


    11 members found this post helpful.

  10. #430
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    Oct. 12, 2007
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    Quote Originally Posted by ESG View Post
    Three guns is now an arsenal?!?!? Wow. Are you in for a surprise.



    I see - so now all gun owners and proponents of gun ownership are "angry and reactionary"?

    As of yesterday, I'd heard anywhere from 6 to 12 guns, high speed magazines, hundreds if not thousands of rounds of ammunition, etc. (Big frustration with this whole thing is that the media keeps getting the facts WRONG.)

    I never said that all owners of guns are angry and reactionary; I'm just seeing a huge overlap with "angry white men" for lack of a better phrase.

    BTW -- guns in rural areas do make more sense -- more wild animals, harder to get police out quickly, etc. (and police corruption -- e.g. a friend Living outside Rapid City, SD, who has a gun because her husband makes his living as a lawyer for Native Americans, and the police don't like that one bit... which means they'll take their own sweet time if they get a call from her.) I'm pretty much fully raised urban/suburban and it just seems like population density is a big factor when it comes to gun safety.
    You have to have experiences to gain experience.

    Proudly owned by Mythic Feronia, 1998 Morgan mare; G-dspeed Trump & Minnie; welcome 2014 Morgan filly MtnTop FlyWithMeJosephine


    3 members found this post helpful.

  11. #431
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    Quote Originally Posted by alicen View Post
    One coroner said of the first 5 bodies that he examined that no child had been hit less than 3 times. One child had been hit 11 times. If teachers are going to have to respond to that kind of firing power with a hand gun, they sure as hell better be crack shots.
    No kidding. Adam Lanza would have taken out a security garden and whoever else with a head shot before they could do anything. Carrying a gun doesn't make you immune to bad things, folks. Owning guns doesn't either. Just look at Nancy Lanza.

    But hey, on the plus side, it'd be easy for a student to overcome a teacher and viola, he'd have a gun! He wouldn't even have to smuggle one into school!

    Everyone keeps howling about mental illness, but what are you going to do -- round up everyone with mild autism (Asperger is no longer a valid term) and put them, where exactly? Do what with them, exactly? There are few programs in place and there won't be an adequate system for dealing with mental issues for many years. Never, if Republicans had their way. They love to cut back on health benefits.

    In the meantime, there needs to be stricter gun controls. This doesn't mean taking away all of your guns however. This is the US of A, after all. Gun ownership will never be banned outright here.


    6 members found this post helpful.

  12. #432
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fred View Post
    Amen to what both Terri and MHM said.

    We live on a farm and have a rifle, which came from my husband's father, who also grew up in the country and handling guns.
    The rifle is not for protection. Not for hunting. But just in case an animal is in distress and can't wait until the vet arrives.
    I hope to never use it.

    It is not a 'toy' as someone else called her husband's gun.

    yes. I know several barn owners who keep a gun for this purpose, and know how to use it on a horse that is suffering. I know one who's done it. Even in our relatively vet-dense area, getting a vet out, especially at night or on the weekend, can take an hour or more.

    ETA: This is a case where having a gun makes a lot of sense to me, not something I would want to see banned.
    Last edited by quietann; Dec. 18, 2012 at 02:58 PM.
    You have to have experiences to gain experience.

    Proudly owned by Mythic Feronia, 1998 Morgan mare; G-dspeed Trump & Minnie; welcome 2014 Morgan filly MtnTop FlyWithMeJosephine


    1 members found this post helpful.

  13. #433
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    Quote Originally Posted by grayarabpony View Post

    But hey, on the plus side, it'd be easy for a student to overcome a teacher and viola, he'd have a gun! He wouldn't even have to smuggle one into school!
    Exactly. My brother is a high school teacher. He's a big, strong guy and he does not want to have a gun in the classroom because some of his students might be bigger, stronger, and crazier. And he's in Alaska, where a lot of those kids will have more gun experience than he does.
    You have to have experiences to gain experience.

    Proudly owned by Mythic Feronia, 1998 Morgan mare; G-dspeed Trump & Minnie; welcome 2014 Morgan filly MtnTop FlyWithMeJosephine


    4 members found this post helpful.

  14. #434
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    Maybe someone wiser than I can explain this to me. The second amendment says:
    "A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed."

    Who decides what the definition of arms will be. We're not allowed to own nuclear weapons...they're arms. We're not allowed to own missile launchers...they're arms. Why can't we decide that Bushmasters and their like and large capacity clips go on the not allowed list, along with nuclear weapons and missile launchers?

    I'm actually very serious. Can someone explain that to me?

    As an aside...children and adults with autism are not violent except to perhaps themselves or by biting and/or hitting when restrained (and we're talking about a someone who is low functioning). Perhaps the CT shooter had something else going on mentally in addition to autism, if indeed he even was autistic. I suppose you can be autistic and a sociopath or severely depressed or schizophrenic. The news media hasn't been too reliable about the facts so far, have they?
    "We can judge the heart of a man by his treatment of animals." ~Immanuel Kant


    7 members found this post helpful.

  15. #435
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    Quote Originally Posted by quietann View Post
    Exactly. My brother is a high school teacher. He's a big, strong guy and he does not want to have a gun in the classroom because some of his students might be bigger, stronger, and crazier. And he's in Alaska, where a lot of those kids will have more gun experience than he does.
    The idea of arming unwilling teachers is so far beyond crazy!

    Anybody who is uncomfortable with the idea of using a gun is not likely to suddenly overcome that lifelong feeling in the heat of the moment. Much more likely that such a person would hesitate, and have the gun taken away by someone who WILL use it.


    5 members found this post helpful.

  16. #436
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    Quote Originally Posted by LauraKY View Post

    As an aside...children and adults with autism are not violent except to perhaps themselves or by biting and/or hitting when restrained (and we're talking about a someone who is low functioning). Perhaps the CT shooter had something else going on mentally in addition to autism, if indeed he even was autistic. I suppose you can be autistic and a sociopath or severely depressed or schizophrenic.
    I think just about everyone knows that... indeed MOST people with mental illness are dangerous only to themselves. But someone with paranoid schizophrenia or having a psychotic break can be very dangerous. People who like to kill other people for the fun of it too.

    Unless Adam Lanza was diagnosed with something other than autism, we'll never have a clue why he did what he did. The adults who survived the attack might be able to shed some light but who knows if AL even said anything.



  17. #437
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    Quote Originally Posted by grayarabpony View Post
    I think just about everyone knows that... indeed MOST people with mental illness are dangerous only to themselves. But someone with paranoid schizophrenia or having a psychotic break can be very dangerous. People who like to kill other people for the fun of it too.
    You know, I don't think most people know that. I think, for the most part, those of us on COTH are intelligent and fairly well educated. I worry about the autistic kids and adults out there who may be labeled as possibly violent because of misinformation by those who are less educated.
    "We can judge the heart of a man by his treatment of animals." ~Immanuel Kant


    1 members found this post helpful.

  18. #438
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    Here is an interesting article by Thomas Sowell about gun control:

    http://www.realclearpolitics.com/art...e__116451.html


    2 members found this post helpful.

  19. #439
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fred View Post
    Amen to what both Terri and MHM said.
    No one can give any valid reasons it seems.

    And for the record, not that it should matter - I too learned to shoot at a very early age, my step-grandfather was a gun collector and hunter, and I was given a 22 as a child.
    We live on a farm and have a rifle, which came from my husband's father, who also grew up in the country and handling guns.
    The rifle is not for protection. Not for hunting. But just in case an animal is in distress and can't wait until the vet arrives.
    I hope to never use it.

    It is not a 'toy' as someone else called her husband's gun.



    http://prospect.org/article/ten-argu...y-theyre-wrong

    I said that, and I meant nothing by it, as much as you would like it to mean something. I could have just as easily said "I don't fool with the AR15, it's his, I just don't fool with it" and you wouldn't have had a darn thing to frown about.

    Last night on NPR Terri Gross ( I think it was her) was obviously horrified to hear the guy from the NRA call the Bushmaster a "cool" weapon as he explained why he thinks it sells so well. She couldn't grasp that he thought that A) Bushmaster sales would go up after this week's terrible, tragic events and B) he'd still call it cool.

    Look, Fred, whether I called it a toy, or he called it cool, the gun that my DH owns is sitting right where I left it yesterday: An inert thing until SOMEONE uses it. The SOMEONE is OUR issue, not the thing, not by any name or any adjective.

    I'm not angry, my DH isn't angry. He is white. So am I.

    What about the DC Sniper? Not white. Definitely angry. Damn it, another SOMEONE with issues. SOMEONE who isn't fitting the 'profile.'

    Guys, if guns are the problem and the problem is huge: Why aren't even more people dead? How many guns are estimated to be in circulation in the US? Among how many owners? Statistically speaking: how often are these weapons (all guns in all homes) used for violent, offensive (not defensive) purposes?


    5 members found this post helpful.

  20. #440
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    Quote Originally Posted by LauraKY View Post
    You know, I don't think most people know that. I think, for the most part, those of us on COTH are intelligent and fairly well educated. I worry about the autistic kids and adults out there who may be labeled as possibly violent because of misinformation by those who are less educated.
    I think you're underestimating most people then, or perhaps you just like to lecture to the choir?



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