The Chronicle of the Horse
MagazineNewsHorse SportsHorse CareCOTH StoreVoicesThe Chronicle UntackedDirectoriesMarketplaceDates & Results
 
Page 13 of 28 FirstFirst ... 3111213141523 ... LastLast
Results 241 to 260 of 542
  1. #241
    Join Date
    Mar. 11, 2005
    Location
    CO
    Posts
    4,880

    Default

    Have you actually deployed and been armed by the government? Because you are NOT allowed to have your ammunition with your weapon unless you are outside the wire or the entire base goes to an alarm status indicating an attack is imminent and/or underway. Hence the reason nine Airmen died in Afghanistan almost 2 years ago, and why casualty rates are so high when foreign trainees ultimately tied to terrorist organizations turn on their trainers. It's awfully difficult to get a shot off in defense when your weapon, be it .9 or rifle, is on the opposite side of your body from the ammunition. Trust me, it's something that is asinine and needs to be fixed.

    I am not saying I'm against a discussion, but I am fearful of a knee-jerk reaction that will serve to punish the masses who have done no wrong (and won't). Mindful discussion, better access to therapy access could help. Blind fear never helps.
    "IT'S NOT THE MOUNTAIN WE CONQUER, BUT OURSELVES." SIR EDMUND HILLARYMember of the "Someone Special To Me Serves In The Military" Clique


    4 members found this post helpful.

  2. #242
    Join Date
    Sep. 7, 2009
    Location
    Lexington, KY
    Posts
    22,906

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by lilitiger2 View Post
    suicide is tragic, devastating for all who are impacted. Unfortunately, while guns in the house (for those who are inclined and who MAKE IT KNOWN) are absolutely one risk, so are any medications, household chemcials, and so forth. Sadly, if people are inclined, they will most definitely find a way; drive a car into a tree or oncoming traffic, step in front of a semi, take a family members medication, drink draino and on and on. Precisely why just talking about method (the guns!) does not really address whatever is going on emotionally with these folks, both the suicidal and homicidal ones.
    Did you even read the material I quoted? I'll repeat it.

    "...more than 90% of all suicidal acts by firearm are fatal. By comparison, individuals who use drugs to attempt suicide, which constitute 75% of all attempts, die in the attempt less than 3% of the time.

    The problem is not just the suicide attempt, it's that guns are so damn good at their intended purpose. Which is to kill. Period.
    Join the Clinton 2016 campaign...Hillary For America. https://www.hillaryclinton.com/


    3 members found this post helpful.

  3. #243
    Join Date
    Jul. 29, 2004
    Location
    Colorado
    Posts
    2,112

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Go Fish View Post
    Not meaning to single you out here, but a question for all gun rights (and I use that term loosely) people - how much collateral damage are you willng to accept? Is it 10 people, 200 people, 20,000 people a year?.
    Until this discussion includes larger societal issues such as why are these people thinking these mass shootings are a solution to a problem or why such an increase in the 'me first' attitude that seems to be more and more prevalent and so many other issues that appear to me to be different in this country than in others, just talking gun control will IMO not be successful.


    4 members found this post helpful.

  4. #244
    Join Date
    Jul. 11, 2004
    Posts
    7,019

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Fred View Post
    Sadly that number of people who 'like' that post has increased to eight.

    Just because you don't like a fact doesn't make it untrue. It's not racist to say Blacks commit the majority of gun attacks/murders...it's racist to refuse to hold them accountable due to their colour.
    "Sic Gorgiamus Allos Subjectatos Nunc"


    5 members found this post helpful.

  5. #245
    Join Date
    Feb. 27, 2004
    Location
    Posts
    1,252

    Default

    I see all of this as a societal problem. Banning guns or gun control whichever you want to call it is just a band aid. There are so many guns in this country that it would take an all out police state to get possession of them or find them. Many people have guns that were inherited from previous generations and there is no legal record of them. If it wasn't guns, someone like this would find another way, bomb maybe?

    Yes bullets kill people, it seems like what ever state of mind someone would need to be in to shoot 20 small children isn't much different from one where he would slit their throats. There was a lot of time in there for him to think " WHAT THE HELL AM I DOING!" but if he did he dismissed it.

    I doubt this was a foreseeable event, in hindsight it seems so but there are to many variables to anticipate 100% to get it right.

    More to consider is why we are producing such angry young men who have no check on them to stop them from doing such horrendous things. Is it just mental illness or unstable home environments. A feeling that no one cares about THEM and their problems.

    150 years ago you were a child then you were an adult. You might be 13 or 14 but if you left childhood behind (involuntarily or or voluntarily) you were an adult with adult responsibilities and consequences. In the 20th century as we became more affluent (by this I mean not a hand to mouth existence) and we cherished our children a little longer and protected them from the hardships of adulthood. The "teenager" was born. This was particular apparent after WW2. Since that time, this part of "growing up" has been extended from just the teen years, through the "college years" or what would be 19-22, until now it encompasses until the mid or late 20s. I hear experts talking about how men and women aren't mature enough to marry at 20 or 25, horse hockey! You are as mature as you want to be or are expected to be.

    How immature are you to not only kill your mother but a whole classroom of students that he was jealous off, temper tantrum extreme. His parents are somewhat to blame. They were the closest people relationship wise to him and it is their duty to know their child. Especially one who is damaged in some way. ( I have a damaged adult child so I know of what I speak). We don't know the details but obviously the parents were not still together and the mother was "losing" herself in her work. Now the son could have just "SNAPPED" but that is hardly likely. She and her husband made excuses and probably over looked things that could potentially point to something like this. Did they do it on purpose, of course not. They did it out of LOVE, but love is not always enough. I do not blame them, I'm sure they could not conceive of something like this occurring. Nor did she deserve to die anymore than the rest.

    The purpose of this rant is, gun control may have limited the damage and fewer people might have died but it wouldn't have stopped it. We can let others control everything that is bad out there with out taking responsibility ourselves.

    This was a HORRID thing. Bad things happen, most often they happen to good people. We need to be more aware and act accordingly.


    7 members found this post helpful.

  6. #246
    Join Date
    May. 21, 2004
    Location
    N. TX...just N.East of paradise...
    Posts
    2,049

    Default

    Just my quick opinion based on general knowledge, but I believe if you made a list of those 'special' countries with gun control that are 'idyllic', then you may also find that they also provide socialized health care, better working conditions, socialized education, and generally more respect toward their citizens, regardless of tax burden, than our country does.

    When a person feels respected as a fellow human, I'd wager the 'mental illnesses' would become quite a bit lessened, not to mention that the hope level in each individual for a good life, is raised significantly.

    All this leading to greater happiness for all, less reason to show rage.

    It's not about guns....
    "As a rule we disbelieve all the facts and theories for which we have no use."- William James
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    Proud member of the Wheat Loss Clique.


    8 members found this post helpful.

  7. #247
    Join Date
    Jul. 11, 2004
    Posts
    7,019

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by starhorse View Post
    To jetsmom:

    I am a teacher, and I think it would be a terrible idea to give teachers guns for a lot of reasons. There is a reasonable chance that eliminating these legal means would make a difference, at least in the case of these mass murders.
    *http://www.motherjones.com/politics/...-shootings-map
    Anything out of Mother Jones has a terrible bias to it.

    School teachers in Israel seem to manage to protect their students from Muslim terrorists (while not shooting students due to annoyances).
    "Sic Gorgiamus Allos Subjectatos Nunc"


    3 members found this post helpful.

  8. #248
    Join Date
    Feb. 22, 2000
    Location
    passepartout
    Posts
    10,314

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Kenike View Post
    Because you are NOT allowed to have your ammunition with your weapon unless you are outside the wire or the entire base goes to an alarm status indicating an attack is imminent and/or underway. Hence the reason nine Airmen died in Afghanistan almost 2 years ago...
    Maybe these rules need revisiting. Sgt. Robert Bales took his weapon and ammo off base and murdered 16 Afghan civilians, 9 of them children.


    1 members found this post helpful.

  9. #249
    Join Date
    Jul. 11, 2004
    Posts
    7,019

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Melelio View Post
    Just my quick opinion based on general knowledge, but I believe if you made a list of those 'special' countries with gun control that are 'idyllic', then you may also find that they also provide socialized health care, better working conditions, socialized education, and generally more respect toward their citizens, regardless of tax burden, than our country does.All this leading to greater happiness for all, less reason to show rage.

    It's not about guns....
    Homogeneous populations are stable, tend to have shared values and most citizens work & contribute towards the common good. This does not describe the USA and some of it's populations.

    You have to earn respect, you don't get because you breathe and demand you get it.
    "Sic Gorgiamus Allos Subjectatos Nunc"


    3 members found this post helpful.

  10. #250
    Join Date
    Feb. 25, 2012
    Location
    Montana
    Posts
    3,275

    Default

    On suicide, really a whole separate topic, the reason why stats truly don' give us the fully picture is that they do not fully account for differing levels of motivation and commitment. For many who select and try medication overdoses, they really were not fully sure they wanted to "complete" and wanted to send a message(from what they report anyway). Obviously we don't know about the folks who used a gun and died but clearly they picked an option with less chance of survival. If the gun wasn't available, does that mean they would't be as committed? Typically, no. They would select another means with a high mortality rate. I am not saying that getting firearms out of households of an actively suicidal individual isn't a very good idea, but people who are committed to ending things seem to find a way to ensure that they will. And removing one avenue will not lessen their commitment. But all this really does raise the ante for those of us in the mental health field to try and identify both protective and risk factors,and then develop thoughtful interventions to address them.


    2 members found this post helpful.

  11. #251
    Join Date
    Jan. 1, 2008
    Posts
    4,966

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Chall View Post
    Ask car manufacturers, the FDA, FAA, insurance companies and hospitals, and the military/president and the judicial system.
    They all make decisions about how much collateral, in human lives, they and we are willing to tolerate. They make decisions about things that usually have a "benefit" and weigh it against a cost in human lives.
    None of your examples are specifically designed or used to kill people. And, you didn't answer the question.
    Fan of the Swedish Chef


    5 members found this post helpful.

  12. #252

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by jetsmom View Post
    I'd like to see mandatory gun training/education required in schools, and mandatory gun ownership required for each household. I'd also like to see teachers/school personel be required to carry one at school. It might help end this kind of thing sooner.

    Either that or have schools be required to have a certain # of armed guards for every 100 students. Something needs to be done, but banning guns isn't the answer when they are so easy to get. And I think homeowners should be able to defend themselves.

    I DO think automatic weapons should be banned.
    Just read an article this morning about staff/volunteers in schools and concealed carry - and how effective it is.

    http://backwoodshome.com/blogs/Massa...inst-monsters/
    http://www.tbhsa.com/index.html

    Originally Posted by JSwan
    I love feral children. They taste like chicken.


    3 members found this post helpful.

  13. #253
    Join Date
    Mar. 3, 2010
    Posts
    1,443

    Default

    Arm everyone. Make them learn to use a weapon for self defense. Make it commonplace like it used to be. Someone tried to rob our local convenience store with a loaded gun. SIXTEEN armed citizens were in or around the store. THey didn't shoot him. They didn't have to. He surrendered his gun and was held for the police. That is how it should be.

    Wanting the government to save you puts the government in the position to KILL you. I will never support that. You never know who you are electing to office.
    “Reality is merely an illusion, albeit a very persistent one.”
    ? Albert Einstein


    14 members found this post helpful.

  14. #254
    Join Date
    Sep. 7, 2009
    Location
    Lexington, KY
    Posts
    22,906

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by lilitiger2 View Post
    On suicide, really a whole separate topic, the reason why stats truly don' give us the fully picture is that they do not fully account for differing levels of motivation and commitment. For many who select and try medication overdoses, they really were not fully sure they wanted to "complete" and wanted to send a message(from what they report anyway). Obviously we don't know about the folks who used a gun and died but clearly they picked an option with less chance of survival. If the gun wasn't available, does that mean they would't be as committed? Typically, no. They would select another means with a high mortality rate. I am not saying that getting firearms out of households of an actively suicidal individual isn't a very good idea, but people who are committed to ending things seem to find a way to ensure that they will. And removing one avenue will not lessen their commitment. But all this really does raise the ante for those of us in the mental health field to try and identify both protective and risk factors,and then develop thoughtful interventions to address them.
    There's not much else with as high a mortality rate. And if there is, it's just not as easy and accessible as a gun.
    Join the Clinton 2016 campaign...Hillary For America. https://www.hillaryclinton.com/


    2 members found this post helpful.

  15. #255
    Join Date
    Mar. 10, 2007
    Location
    Montana
    Posts
    6,503

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Where'sMyWhite View Post
    Until this discussion includes larger societal issues such as why are these people thinking these mass shootings are a solution to a problem or why such an increase in the 'me first' attitude that seems to be more and more prevalent and so many other issues that appear to me to be different in this country than in others, just talking gun control will IMO not be successful.
    Totally agree with this.


    3 members found this post helpful.

  16. #256
    Join Date
    Jun. 27, 2005
    Location
    KY
    Posts
    4,862

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by horsefaerie View Post
    Arm everyone. Make them learn to use a weapon for self defense. Make it commonplace like it used to be. Someone tried to rob our local convenience store with a loaded gun. SIXTEEN armed citizens were in or around the store. THey didn't shoot him. They didn't have to. He surrendered his gun and was held for the police. That is how it should be.

    Wanting the government to save you puts the government in the position to KILL you. I will never support that. You never know who you are electing to office.
    Has it occurred to anyone that there are people who do not want to own a weapon? Under any circumstances?

    ************************
    \"Horses lend us the wings we lack\"


    3 members found this post helpful.

  17. #257
    Join Date
    Mar. 10, 2007
    Location
    Montana
    Posts
    6,503

    Default

    I think the people that don't want to own a weapon are the definition of the issue! LOL I'm not sure it needs to "occur" to anyone... It seems to me that the ones that don't want to own a gun under any circumstance are trying to impose their wishes on those that do want to have a gun.

    I don't care if you don't have a gun but in this society at this point in time (and when I am camping in grizzly country) I want to have my guns.


    12 members found this post helpful.

  18. #258
    Join Date
    Mar. 11, 2005
    Location
    CO
    Posts
    4,880

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by JER View Post
    Maybe these rules need revisiting. Sgt. Robert Bales took his weapon and ammo off base and murdered 16 Afghan civilians, 9 of them children.
    What would you suggest? That we deploy without weapons and become sitting ducks? That we decommission out armed forces and have the nation become a sitting duck? Or that we actually be trusted to carry and use our weapons as we've been trained?

    Bales is being prosecuted and will never live a free life again...if he avoids execution. Nothing would have prevented his actions that night, now he (and his family) pay the consequences.
    "IT'S NOT THE MOUNTAIN WE CONQUER, BUT OURSELVES." SIR EDMUND HILLARYMember of the "Someone Special To Me Serves In The Military" Clique


    6 members found this post helpful.

  19. #259
    Join Date
    Mar. 11, 2005
    Location
    CO
    Posts
    4,880

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by luvmytbs View Post
    Has it occurred to anyone that there are people who do not want to own a weapon? Under any circumstances?
    Then don't own one. Nobody is forcing you.
    "IT'S NOT THE MOUNTAIN WE CONQUER, BUT OURSELVES." SIR EDMUND HILLARYMember of the "Someone Special To Me Serves In The Military" Clique


    10 members found this post helpful.

  20. #260
    Join Date
    Feb. 25, 2012
    Location
    Montana
    Posts
    3,275

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by cowboymom View Post
    I think the people that don't want to own a weapon are the definition of the issue! LOL I'm not sure it needs to "occur" to anyone... It seems to me that the ones that don't want to own a gun under any circumstance are trying to impose their wishes on those that do want to have a gun.

    I don't care if you don't have a gun but in this society at this point in time (and when I am camping in grizzly country) I want to have my guns.
    Agree Cowboy mom!!! Me too! I will say though that culturally, at least where I am, firearms are very much the norm-everyone's kids go to hunter safety together, we all chat hunting, go target shooting and so forth, probably like some go to play basketball. I know its different elsewhere, in urban areas perhaps, but it is hard for those (people I know back east, for example) to appreciate. Many of my clients come in from hunting-my colleague (psychologist also) and I have Montana hunting regs as the main reading material in our waiting room!!


    12 members found this post helpful.

Similar Threads

  1. Counties/States with strict neuter laws?
    By shea'smom in forum The Menagerie
    Replies: 20
    Last Post: Jun. 12, 2012, 05:23 PM
  2. Differences in TBs from different countries
    By Starda01 in forum Racing
    Replies: 10
    Last Post: Sep. 7, 2011, 01:11 PM
  3. Vacations - other countries
    By MyGiantPony in forum Off Topic
    Replies: 18
    Last Post: Apr. 22, 2011, 05:14 PM
  4. How strict is AHS in approving TB mares?
    By flyracing in forum Sport Horse Breeding
    Replies: 27
    Last Post: Feb. 23, 2011, 12:57 PM
  5. How strict are you about Fescue?
    By DLee in forum Sport Horse Breeding
    Replies: 10
    Last Post: Apr. 14, 2010, 11:55 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •