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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jul. 26, 2012
    Posts
    44

    Default OTTB: Double Mr. Prospector and "osslets" ?

    Anyone, please? I'm trying to decide whether I should snatch up this guy, although he reportedly has an old small osslet that doesn't bother him (he's still racing). I'm not really familiar with this, but should I be worried about this being a soundness issue for eventing? I'm paying particular attention because he has double Mr. Prospector 3 gens back, eek. But he's 6 and racing with 30 starts, so he seems fine apparently??

    This is his pedigree. I see multiple names I vaguely recognize--Mr.Prospector, Danzig, Turn-To, Buckpasser...--but I'm definitely not a pedigree expert. Is this something promising or scary--what do you guys think?
    www.pedigreequery.com/suzuran+dancer

    Here is a pic of the cutie pie.
    http://tinypic.com/r/axflj/6

    His legs:

    http://tinypic.com/r/o8s26b/6

    http://tinypic.com/r/bea2xf/6

    http://i45.tinypic.com/11v7dkm.jpg
    Last edited by Levade; Dec. 9, 2012 at 04:38 PM.



  2. #2
    Join Date
    Sep. 14, 1999
    Location
    Just Enough Farm, GA
    Posts
    2,226

    Default

    He's cute! Old set osselets don't bother me. I'd probably have an xray done just to be sure he didn't have a chip. Earlier this year I sold a horse with 50 or so starts. His ankles were pretty big but he passed a vetting with flying colors to be a fox hunter. He's held up great.
    If you believe everything you read, better not read. -- Japanese Proverb




  3. #3
    Join Date
    Oct. 23, 2000
    Location
    Illinois
    Posts
    570

    Default

    He really is cute. I have no experience with osselets but I remember this from our own jleegriffith.

    http://dixierumble.wordpress.com/201...th-big-ankles/


    1 members found this post helpful.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Aug. 4, 2009
    Location
    MD
    Posts
    4,072

    Default

    osselots for a re-sale prospect can be a toughie. Do get x-rays...mild rounding on a young horse will sometimes remodel and be less noticeble, but on an older tough campaginer they will be set for life..
    If everything else is what you want in the horse and the x-rays are good, his flexions w/ in normal peramiters go for it he is a cutie...


    1 members found this post helpful.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jan. 23, 2004
    Location
    Camden, De
    Posts
    3,601

    Default

    I always X-ray them because sometimes an osselet is just that but other times you may find a chip, fracture or more that caused the calcification. I am always weary when the horse just has one big ankle.


    1 members found this post helpful.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jan. 16, 2002
    Location
    West Coast of Michigan
    Posts
    36,321

    Default

    He looks nice, and osselets don't bother me but I would very definitely X-ray any joints that look to have even a little bit of wear and tear. His feet and pastern angles certainly look better than average for a track horse. I don't like his straightness through stifle and hock, personally, but opinions on that vary. Pedigree I don't even bother looking at unless I want to breed racehorses.
    Click here before you buy.



  7. #7
    Join Date
    Nov. 9, 2012
    Posts
    77

    Default

    "Osselets" is a very general term used to describe almost any swelling or enlargement in an ankle. Problem is, there are several things that may cause this. It needs to be investigated. Some causes are worse then others.


    1 members found this post helpful.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jun. 20, 2009
    Location
    Hunterdon County NJ
    Posts
    2,908

    Default

    Agree with justhoofit.

    Horsey is a cutie though.



  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jul. 26, 2012
    Posts
    44

    Default

    Thanks guys, I would definitely get the osslet area x-rayed, for sure. The last thing I need is a horse that won't hold up to what I want to do--although, if he's totally fine with them still racing him on it, hopefully it's fine and won't pose a soundness issue.

    Does anyone want to comment on his legs; I just received some pics? The right front has the osslet. Here's a few:

    http://tinypic.com/r/o8s26b/6

    http://tinypic.com/r/bea2xf/6

    http://i45.tinypic.com/11v7dkm.jpg

    I'm asking, because this guy has DOUBLE Mr. Prospector 3 generations back, so soundness is a huge thing to consider. But, as I said, if he's been going well with 30 starts and is fine except the osslet, maybe he's dodged that bullet.



  10. #10
    Join Date
    Oct. 14, 2000
    Location
    Now In the Sandhills, NC mostly
    Posts
    6,752

    Default

    Out of curiosity, why are you worried about the Mr. Prospector?



  11. #11
    Join Date
    Jul. 26, 2012
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    44

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by FairWeather View Post
    Out of curiosity, why are you worried about the Mr. Prospector?
    He's known for passing on unsoundness, from what I've heard, so doubling up on that seems risky to me, in theory.



  12. #12
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    Oct. 14, 2000
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    Now In the Sandhills, NC mostly
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    I've never seen any empirical data indicating that this is the case. I think it's something that people like to say, but don't have any evidence of. Vet the horse in front of you for the job you'd like to do and you will be better off than worrying about double doses of this and that.
    I will say, anytime a horse "goes lame", I've never thought "DAMN THAT STORM CAAAAAATTTT!!!! I SHAKE MY FIST AT THEEEEE!"
    I'm more likely to think "hrmm, I bet this dork pulled something running around like a crazy man in the mud, maybe I'll keep him in the next time we get a downpour


    9 members found this post helpful.

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Jan. 19, 2005
    Location
    PA
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    12,373

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    Quote Originally Posted by Levade View Post
    He's known for passing on unsoundness, from what I've heard, so doubling up on that seems risky to me, in theory.

    I wouldn't worry about it. Mr. Prospector was WIDELY used...not sure you can blame him for passing unsoundness when he has has so many successful offspring in racing. What I do think he passes is typically a very strong hind end.

    I'd vet the gelding if you are interested in him. He is a nice type.
    ** The difference between genius and stupidity is genius has its limits. -- Albert Einstein **


    3 members found this post helpful.

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Jun. 13, 2001
    Location
    usa
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    6,097

    Default

    There is SO much line breeding in this horse.

    Also An osselet are arthritis in the fetlock due to trama. The can cause pain when the horse flexes the joint. They tend to create a shorter or choppy stride. Usually the joint capsule continues to thicken (and therein can be the problem). The question is WHERE the trama was exactly. If it was treated immediately there is more chance of a better outcome.

    The question is what you want the horse for, and how inexpensive.
    I.D.E.A. yoda



  15. #15
    Join Date
    Mar. 19, 2003
    Posts
    374

    Default

    He was known for offset knees. Unsoundness well alot of things factor into that.
    My only advise is that I would x-ray both front ankles, even if only one shows an osslet because he could have developed that trying to take care of the other leg.
    M
    Never approach a bull from the front, a horse from behind, or a fool from any direction


    1 members found this post helpful.

  16. #16
    Join Date
    Jul. 26, 2012
    Posts
    44

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ideayoda View Post
    There is SO much line breeding in this horse.

    Also An osselet are arthritis in the fetlock due to trama. The can cause pain when the horse flexes the joint. They tend to create a shorter or choppy stride. Usually the joint capsule continues to thicken (and therein can be the problem). The question is WHERE the trama was exactly. If it was treated immediately there is more chance of a better outcome.

    The question is what you want the horse for, and how inexpensive.
    So are you running from him screaming? :/ In regards to the osslet, can you see it at all through the leg pics? Apparently it's old and healed and at least currently not interfering with his racing.

    I want to event with the horse and eventually do upper-level things, definitely jumping. I would definitely want him to hold up to that. They're asking 1,500. When you say the joint capsule can continue to thicken, is that with fresh, ongoing case? Or even when it's old?



  17. #17
    Join Date
    Jul. 26, 2012
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    44

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by FairWeather View Post
    I've never seen any empirical data indicating that this is the case. I think it's something that people like to say, but don't have any evidence of. Vet the horse in front of you for the job you'd like to do and you will be better off than worrying about double doses of this and that.
    I will say, anytime a horse "goes lame", I've never thought "DAMN THAT STORM CAAAAAATTTT!!!! I SHAKE MY FIST AT THEEEEE!"
    I'm more likely to think "hrmm, I bet this dork pulled something running around like a crazy man in the mud, maybe I'll keep him in the next time we get a downpour
    LOL, I like the way you think, Fairweather. I like to look at what's in front of me too, but the power of the pedigeeks scares me


    Thanks Bornfreenowexpensive! A really like him and his type overall, so the leg issues are a bummer.



  18. #18
    Join Date
    Aug. 28, 2007
    Location
    Triangle Area, NC
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    6,704

    Default

    Those are some freaky long pasterns!!!
    That with osselets would turn me away
    www.destinationconsensusequus.com
    chaque pas est fait ensemble



  19. #19
    Join Date
    Apr. 11, 2001
    Location
    Tennessee
    Posts
    6,485

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    His sire ran 62 times for 11 wins and 2.6M in winnings, that would be more indicative to me for inherited soundness than a ggsire.



  20. #20
    Join Date
    Oct. 14, 2000
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    Now In the Sandhills, NC mostly
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    6,752

    Default

    Also An osselet are arthritis in the fetlock due to trama
    No, not true. Not arthritis, and not in the fetlock--true osselets are actually outside the joint. I've never seen one that was painful from flexion of the joint--not saying it's not possible, just that I've never seen it and never heard anybody mentioning it. Never seen it affect movement if they are true osselets--only if there is actual calcification of the joint (which is different than osselets).
    FWIW, my horse that was linked in the blog above from Jlee has a big old chunky osselet--every vet and professional who sees it asks me if it flexes and xrays clean (they do) and they never question it again and it's never been an issue.
    I love the shape of the horse above and the osselet is minor. I do not think the pasterns are freakishly long, but maybe a tad bit on the longish side. What I do love is the wither, the shoulder, and the hip--all things that make them do this. I also love how low the stifle is. If I were being picky I would put the hocks a bit more on the ground, but altogether it's a lovely type and one that I would take home all day and twice on Sunday provided he flexed/xrayed clean and had a nice walk.


    10 members found this post helpful.

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