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  1. #41
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    For the record, the new AA entity is a Sub Committee of the USEF Dressage Committee (not USDF). And both Hilary Clayton and Lisa Goretta are AAs.

    And remember that, even though some of us are not AAs, the bulk of our clients/students ARE, so really our interests are not that divergent.

    And finally, on the Adult Clinics (not AA - all adult riders) (I ran 3 as Region 1 Director) - the point of the video and application process is to be able to try to find horses and riders that give the auditors a great learning experience and allow the clinician to demonstrate their methods. This means a basic competence at the level to be demonstrated for both horse and rider, a horse that can be comfortable in a strange place in front of a large audience (trust me, this can be a major factor), and a nice variety of horse types and levels. The clinic is for the riders to some extent, but primarily for the auditors.

    That said, I think Hilda's clinics are going to be great and hope everyone who can at least audits!



  2. #42
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    Jan. 10, 2002
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    Area VIII, Region 2, Zone 5.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ToN Farm View Post
    Is Goretta even a rider? Was she ever a rider? Isn't she the one the owns a tack store.
    Lisa Gorretta is an AA who showed through PSG, as recently as 2010. She is a tireless volunteer for the USEF and USDF.
    Quote Originally Posted by SuzieQNutter
    The whip is held across your thigh so as you can still hold the reins without spilling your coffee!!
    SillyHorse adds: Or your wine.



  3. #43
    Join Date
    Apr. 27, 2006
    Location
    Maben, MS
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    974

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    Quote Originally Posted by HollysHobbies View Post
    AA drop out here...

    I love dressage, I'm sad I won't be able to continue pursuing my Silver Medal, but I just can't justify spending 25% of my income per MONTH to sign up for 2 dressage classes anymore (assuming we don't go over the fiscal cliff, in which case 28%). I get it. Horses are expensive...showing is REALLY expensive (for me)

    My local GMO isn't very active anymore--the only time I interacted with them was when I volunteered at the recognized show for a day. I did ask the local GMO VP about clinics (in case I was just missing the boat), but she said that the GMO guard was burned out and there just wasn't the enthusiasm or young blood to organize anything. ...

    I know most AAs probably aren't in my low financial bracket, but that's my math.
    Don't worry, there are AA's in your bracket, I am one of them! I know of several others too.

    I live in a remote area of region 9. I've been here 8 long years and have seen the demise of Mississippi Dressage & Eventing GMO (which I was a volunteer on). We had the same issues you stated for your GMO but also long distances and just generally little interest in dressage in the state.

    Unfortunately the next closest GMO to me is in Region 3 and is struggling. They are 3 hours away so it's just not finicially practical for me to volunteer. Fuel is expensive. Do I spend 6 hours driving round-trip plus fuel to volunteer or do I spend 6 hours+fuel to go to my trainer for a lesson? I do the latter.

    I did register my gelding lifetime USDF/USEF when he was 4 y.o. so that "saves" that fee annually.

    Didn't offer really any insight or anything, but there are others like you out here!


    1 members found this post helpful.

  4. #44
    Join Date
    Oct. 12, 2007
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    Andover, MA
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    Quote Originally Posted by lorilu View Post
    Here is what they told us in New Orleans: They look for horses across the breeds and levels. These clinics are focused on the auditors - so they look for horses that will provide teachable moments, not perfect superstars of the level. The questions re: soundness relate to being sure your horse will appear if selected - and not be lame on the day of the clinic.

    L
    And the past few NEDA symposiums have had exactly ONE non-WB horse each. It's like they are filling a quota ("Pinto gelding, Training Level, check! Let's get on to the real riders now.") I'm not bashing the symposiums themselves -- they are excellent! -- but I am not sure the appearance of a quota is just coincidence.
    You have to have experiences to gain experience.

    Proudly owned by Mythic Feronia, 1998 Morgan mare; G-dspeed Trump & Minnie; welcome 2014 Morgan filly MtnTop FlyWithMeJosephine


    2 members found this post helpful.

  5. #45
    Join Date
    Oct. 2, 1999
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    Quote Originally Posted by Commander Cody View Post
    For the record, the new AA entity is a Sub Committee of the USEF Dressage Committee (not USDF). And both Hilary Clayton and Lisa Goretta are AAs.

    And remember that, even though some of us are not AAs, the bulk of our clients/students ARE, so really our interests are not that divergent.
    I am glad there are real adult amateurs on the committee.

    I appreciate your enthusiasm but I think if the Professional Horse Establishment agreed with you we'd have some committees that were 100% adult amateur that covered the needs of professional riders; after all, since we're clients of professionals and interact with them all the time, we completely understand their needs and interests.

    So that leads me to another suggestion: recruit more adult amateurs for all committees. (USEF has this problem as well.) Even when adult amateurs are included, they tend to be riders at the upper levels and truly solicited for their riding skill. And yet, there are people out there who maybe are at 1st/2nd but who bring other valuable skills to the table, as lawyers, as marketers, as statisticians, etc. I want to see more of those kinds of participants on every committee.

    The committees could use more local professionals as well.

    I think it would also help to expand participation by using more technology - skype meetings and message boards/email lists, for example, are cheap - making it possible for more people from more places to participate without the expense and time of travel.
    If you are allergic to a thing, it is best not to put that thing in your mouth, particularly if the thing is cats. - Lemony Snicket


    2 members found this post helpful.

  6. #46
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    Aug. 14, 2004
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    fwiw i dont think Clayton is an "AA" in the "real" sense... she is hobknobbing with the very top of the sport... has no clue what us real ammies are doing.

    we need REAL representation.


    1 members found this post helpful.

  7. #47
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    Jul. 18, 2010
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    Land of Enchantment
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    Quote Originally Posted by DownYonder View Post
    What is "rift raft"? Do you mean "riffraff" (riff raff)?
    I kept wondering why WORD was flagging it
    Thats how we spell it in France


    1 members found this post helpful.

  8. #48
    Join Date
    Dec. 27, 2006
    Location
    Hamilton, Va
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    Agree completely, Poltroon. We need great volunteers of ALL types representing ALL groups - AAs, lower level professionals, lower level judges (I am one of the only non- S or FEI judges on the Dressage Committee and as an R judge, I do try to represent the concerns of the lower level, local L grads, r and R judges). It's always a struggle to attract volunteers. I do think, being very involved with my GMO as well, that more AAs and local pros are involved at the GMO level as well as on the USDF committees that often meet face to face only once a year at the Convention.



  9. #49
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    Oct. 2, 1999
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    Quote Originally Posted by mbm View Post
    fwiw i dont think Clayton is an "AA" in the "real" sense... she is hobknobbing with the very top of the sport... has no clue what us real ammies are doing.

    we need REAL representation.
    I disagree; she has a very real outside job and a very demanding one.

    However, I will agree that it's part of the symptomology of asking only people with connections to the existing inner circle. The reality is that we need to get people on those committees who don't currently interact at that level, to get their ideas, insight, and input. That first level AA that you've never taken note of in the dressage ring is maybe a marketing genius in her professional realm - we don't tap those people because they haven't caught our eyes as *riders.*
    If you are allergic to a thing, it is best not to put that thing in your mouth, particularly if the thing is cats. - Lemony Snicket


    1 members found this post helpful.

  10. #50
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    Mar. 24, 2010
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    Tucson
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    Quote Originally Posted by poltroon View Post
    So that leads me to another suggestion: recruit more adult amateurs for all committees. (USEF has this problem as well.) Even when adult amateurs are included, they tend to be riders at the upper levels and truly solicited for their riding skill. And yet, there are people out there who maybe are at 1st/2nd but who bring other valuable skills to the table, as lawyers, as marketers, as statisticians, etc. I want to see more of those kinds of participants on every committee.

    The committees could use more local professionals as well.

    I think it would also help to expand participation by using more technology - skype meetings and message boards/email lists, for example, are cheap - making it possible for more people from more places to participate without the expense and time of travel.
    I think this is absolutely something which should be stressed. One thing dressage desperately needs is help with marketing. And professional trainers aren't the ones likely to be able to figure that out. Communication, business sense... all things AAs should be able to help with, given in many cases THEY are the pros in those areas, not the trainers.
    My horse is a dressage diva so I don't have to be.

    Quote Originally Posted by katarine
    If you have a fat gay horse that likes Parelli, you're really screwed



  11. #51
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    Mar. 9, 2006
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    For those who feel the need to say ugly things about those on the committee, HAVE YOU EVER TALKED TO ANY OF THESE USEF AA COMMITTEE MEMBERS?

    In person. Not third hand?

    If you had, I am sure your comments about these people would be considerably kinder.



  12. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by mjhco View Post
    For those who feel the need to say ugly things about those on the committee, HAVE YOU EVER TALKED TO ANY OF THESE USEF AA COMMITTEE MEMBERS?

    In person. Not third hand?

    If you had, I am sure your comments about these people would be considerably kinder.
    And how about this: why don't you AAs here complaining about representation, and whether the people volunteering their time and expertise are worthy of representing you, step up and get on a committee?
    Quote Originally Posted by SuzieQNutter
    The whip is held across your thigh so as you can still hold the reins without spilling your coffee!!
    SillyHorse adds: Or your wine.


    1 members found this post helpful.

  13. #53
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    Oct. 2, 1999
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    Quote Originally Posted by SillyHorse View Post
    And how about this: why don't you AAs here complaining about representation, and whether the people volunteering their time and expertise are worthy of representing you, step up and get on a committee?
    I know in the past people have made the attempt and been rebuffed. I don't know if it was because of problems perceived from that specific person or if the issue is systemic.

    How do people nominate themselves for committees? Are there any self-nominated people currently serving?

    Is there anyone serving on a committee right now who has not been an owner or a rider at the FEI levels?

    One of the issues that this committee is apparently trying to address - and I applaud it! - is to get issues important to Adult Amateurs *who are not currently successful* in dressage in the current system out there. By "not currently successful" I mean that for whatever reason, they are people showing at Training/1st/2nd... not at a level of national prominence. (They may be very pleased with their success personally.) So, it stands to reason that if you're trying to address issues important to those members.... you need to actively recruit some to sit on your committees. If all your adult amateurs are people playing at the FEI level, they've obviously not been held back by whatever issues we perceive for the lower level riders. Thus, governance is (perhaps unintentionally) heavily biased towards people who are already successful with the status quo.

    I noticed on the Facebook page that it seemed there was some attempt to do that. If that's how it turns out, bravo. Perhaps it will help pull new blood into the organization as a whole.

    Broadcasting the convention, btw, especially if it can be put into a form where the remote audience can ask questions, is a good way to get more people interested in participating in governance. Currently, the conventions are very closed-shop and not terribly welcoming to anyone not already part of a committee or governance function.
    If you are allergic to a thing, it is best not to put that thing in your mouth, particularly if the thing is cats. - Lemony Snicket



  14. #54
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    Mar. 27, 2001
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    North County, San Diego
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    Quote Originally Posted by mjhco View Post
    For those who feel the need to say ugly things about those on the committee, HAVE YOU EVER TALKED TO ANY OF THESE USEF AA COMMITTEE MEMBERS?

    In person. Not third hand?

    If you had, I am sure your comments about these people would be considerably kinder.
    And I might add that the committee members ARE volunteers: they attend the conventions and the mid-year meetings at their own expense, they phone/Skype conference (seeming constantly) and there are endless on-going email conversations regarding the topics they are working on.

    From my observation, committee members are the "worker bees" of the USDF and USEF. They're the ones who arrive at a convention on Tuesday, sit in meetings all week, and then leave before the fun stuff begins on the weekend.

    And for those of you who casually dismissed the Facebook AAEI group and say, TPTB should come here to see what we're saying: there is one huge difference with having a discussion on FB instead of having a discussion on a chat board:

    Real names.


    2 members found this post helpful.

  15. #55
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    Mar. 27, 2001
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    North County, San Diego
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    Quote Originally Posted by poltroon View Post

    Broadcasting the convention, btw, especially if it can be put into a form where the remote audience can ask questions, is a good way to get more people interested in participating in governance.
    I totally agree with you: I think that both USDF and USEF can make better use of the technology available to make the conventions more accessible to all members.


    1 members found this post helpful.

  16. #56
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    Mar. 24, 2010
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    Tucson
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    Quote Originally Posted by poltroon View Post
    I know in the past people have made the attempt and been rebuffed. I don't know if it was because of problems perceived from that specific person or if the issue is systemic.

    How do people nominate themselves for committees? Are there any self-nominated people currently serving?

    Is there anyone serving on a committee right now who has not been an owner or a rider at the FEI levels?

    One of the issues that this committee is apparently trying to address - and I applaud it! - is to get issues important to Adult Amateurs *who are not currently successful* in dressage in the current system out there. By "not currently successful" I mean that for whatever reason, they are people showing at Training/1st/2nd... not at a level of national prominence. (They may be very pleased with their success personally.) So, it stands to reason that if you're trying to address issues important to those members.... you need to actively recruit some to sit on your committees. If all your adult amateurs are people playing at the FEI level, they've obviously not been held back by whatever issues we perceive for the lower level riders. Thus, governance is (perhaps unintentionally) heavily biased towards people who are already successful with the status quo.

    I noticed on the Facebook page that it seemed there was some attempt to do that. If that's how it turns out, bravo. Perhaps it will help pull new blood into the organization as a whole.

    Broadcasting the convention, btw, especially if it can be put into a form where the remote audience can ask questions, is a good way to get more people interested in participating in governance. Currently, the conventions are very closed-shop and not terribly welcoming to anyone not already part of a committee or governance function.


    Also worth repeating.

    Whenever someone says "Why aren't people from group X involved?" they need to stop asking what that group can do to get themselves involved, but instead ask what they can do differently to get those folks involved. Janet and now Axel have both reached out to normal, everyday, struggling in their own way, AAs to try to get us involved and hear what we have to say. They gave us a way to give them feedback, and Leslie created this group which allowed anyone who wanted to volunteer to be on the steering committee. That's pretty darn inclusive, and I suspect we have a much broader representation than is typically seen. Now that we have a conduit for communication, taking a lot of the feedback from here and elsewhere is important to get voices heard, and figure out how to make it more participatory for a more representative group. The nature of how things are set up most definitely does encourage those at FEI levels, but they most certainly aren't the only ones who are important.

    I've learned that as a "squeaky wheel" type I'm good at getting heard. But I think it's important that the struggling, quiet, yet dedicated dressage rider who wouldn't confront anyone but still has opinions can be heard. I can't speak for everyone else, but at least with participation in this group I can try to make it easier for every viewpoint to be heard.
    My horse is a dressage diva so I don't have to be.

    Quote Originally Posted by katarine
    If you have a fat gay horse that likes Parelli, you're really screwed


    1 members found this post helpful.

  17. #57
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    Nov. 1, 1999
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    Shangri-LA
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    I think the biggest problem is that the size of the country limits what any one organization can provide to all members. It ends up only being able to accomodate a minority of the members at the expense of the majority. The AA's are the majority of the membership, yet the USDF only achieves reaching out to a very limited few. I just don't see how they can achieve reaching out to the majority, especially in the current economic situation. Is some of this being driven by dwindling AA memberships?



  18. #58
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    Mar. 10, 2006
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    midwest
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    348

    Default Janet Foy

    Quote Originally Posted by Sandy M View Post
    Well, for starters, don't know how ....willing?....I am to accept at face value anything from Janet Foy-Brown. She was one of the leaders in the Qualification Standard brou-hah-hah; she was the one who said she was "tired of seeing horses coming down the centerline that should be out chasing cattle." (If she'd said "tired of seeing horses dumped on the forehand," no problem, but that was obviously a dig at stock horse breeds.)

    )
    I was auditing a Janet Foy clinic, and she told the woman she was currently instructing to list her horse on entry forms/clinic apps as a "Dutch cross, so that everyone would think he was a DWB cross". The horse in question was, I believe of Dutch harness horse, TB, and some draft breeding. Anyone who would encourage an owner/rider to misrepresent a horse is someone I am sceptical of. And it is also someone (a judge, no less) who is looking with a prejudiced eye on horses of non warmblood breeding.



  19. #59
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    Mar. 9, 2006
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    Quote Originally Posted by mishmash View Post
    I was auditing a Janet Foy clinic, and she told the woman she was currently instructing to list her horse on entry forms/clinic apps as a "Dutch cross, so that everyone would think he was a DWB cross". The horse in question was, I believe of Dutch harness horse, TB, and some draft breeding. Anyone who would encourage an owner/rider to misrepresent a horse is someone I am sceptical of. And it is also someone (a judge, no less) who is looking with a prejudiced eye on horses of non warmblood breeding.
    How is stating a horse is a Dutch cross when it is a Dutch cross dishonest?



  20. #60
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    Or I guess I am an *sshoile for signing my horse up as an OPEC Warmblood


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