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  1. #121
    Join Date
    Aug. 26, 1999
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    Concord, California, USA
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    8,128

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    You have to PAY to get those certificates and performance awards. My youngster is qualified for a "Performance Certificate, " but I don't feel like paying $25 for a piece of paper that they'll probably tell me to print off the internet!


    1 members found this post helpful.

  2. #122
    Join Date
    Feb. 20, 2011
    Location
    Dutchess county, NY
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    890

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    Quote Originally Posted by pluvinel View Post
    How are the lower levels going to see what they are aiming at if they don't have access to good upper level education?
    But, I have seen this argument used against your point - for example: re. rolkur....people are worried that less experienced riders will see "rolkur" at shows and try it at home.

    Pluvinel, PLEASE do not think that I am peresecuting you, I am enjoying your point of view and believe you have some very thoughtful arguments. I am only interested in the sharing of ideas.

    (personally I am an AA, still paying off my student loans. I have a bronze and silver medal and could attend the conference. Given the expense to travel to FL in terms of cash, vacation time and lost riding time, I don't even consider attending. I use my resources in the care of my horses, riding lessons and showing.)



  3. #123
    Join Date
    Aug. 15, 2010
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    1,589

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    Quote Originally Posted by pluvinel View Post
    How are the lower levels going to see what they are aiming at if they don't have access to good upper level education?

    How does requiring all these "criteria" further the aspirations in the Strategic Plan



    Why require to have a "friend" in the inside to be able to audit a simple dressage presentation?

    I (and everyone on this BB) can attend an ASME public course for the design of nuclear reactors just by paying my fees.
    http://www.asme.org/products/courses...rules-for-cons

    Why all the hoops that the USDF puts for attending a dressage symposium?
    I attended this symposium ONCE - when they offered it on the West Coast. I have to say, I'm no expert since I attended ONE TIME, but based on that one time, it would have been quite relevant to any rider at 2nd level on up. Meanwhile, USDF apparently decided they didn't draw enough people on the West Coast (hmmm, maybe the criteria were too restrictive?), so they never came back.

    I understand the idea that there needs to be training for the trainers - but then restrict it to TRAINERS only, and not just to FEI trainers. And remember there should be other opportunities for AAs.

    I agree, there were way too many criteria to attract a big and diverse crowd.


    1 members found this post helpful.

  4. #124
    Join Date
    Feb. 9, 2005
    Location
    Ocala, FL
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    1,758

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    I have been told that USDF leaves it up to the GMOs to reach out to, and provide programs for, those members who are not actively competing/interested in medals/etc.

    I know we here in STRIDE try very hard to meet the desires of our very diverse membership.

    GMO membership gets you not only the perks your GMO offers, but the magazine, E-Trak, and you can enter shows (but not accumulate scores towards regions, etc - altho I think you can accumulate scores for some awards). If your local GMO is not meeting your needs, get involved.

    Membership in STRIDE is only $40, and, among other things, gets you 10% off at all the Ocala tack and feed stores. Most members actually save money by being a member.

    It also gets your voice heard through a delegate at the convention. I know I was rather .... voicey (?) last week in New Orleans, helping to push the AAs agenda. I was not alone.



  5. #125
    Join Date
    Apr. 9, 2008
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    1,176

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    How are the lower levels going to see what they are aiming at if they don't have access to good upper level education?
    Quote Originally Posted by dudleyc View Post
    But, I have seen this argument used against your point - for example: re. rolkur....people are worried that less experienced riders will see "rolkur" at shows and try it at home.

    Pluvinel, PLEASE do not think that I am peresecuting you, I am enjoying your point of view and believe you have some very thoughtful arguments. I am only interested in the sharing of ideas.

    (personally I am an AA, still paying off my student loans. I have a bronze and silver medal and could attend the conference. Given the expense to travel to FL in terms of cash, vacation time and lost riding time, I don't even consider attending. I use my resources in the care of my horses, riding lessons and showing.)
    No problem.....I think this thread has offered great dialogue and I hope the folks over at FB are reading.

    As far as the comment that "less experienced riders will see "rolkur" at shows and try it at home" as a reason to keep out the lower level riders.....

    My answer is that it seems pretty paternalist attitude.....that "WE" (your dressage elders) know better than you.

    My answer is that we're in the 21st century and people are quite capable of making up their own minds. Let the smurfs in.



  6. #126
    Join Date
    Nov. 1, 1999
    Location
    Shangri-LA
    Posts
    1,597

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    Quote Originally Posted by lorilu View Post
    I have been told that USDF leaves it up to the GMOs to reach out to, and provide programs for, those members who are not actively competing/interested in medals/etc.

    I know we here in STRIDE try very hard to meet the desires of our very diverse membership.

    GMO membership gets you not only the perks your GMO offers, but the magazine, E-Trak, and you can enter shows (but not accumulate scores towards regions, etc - altho I think you can accumulate scores for some awards). If your local GMO is not meeting your needs, get involved.

    Membership in STRIDE is only $40, and, among other things, gets you 10% off at all the Ocala tack and feed stores. Most members actually save money by being a member.

    It also gets your voice heard through a delegate at the convention. I know I was rather .... voicey (?) last week in New Orleans, helping to push the AAs agenda. I was not alone.
    A big part of the problem is many riders don't have a GMO in their area, they look to the USDF for their educational opportunities. It's always the same response when these conversations are brought up by the USDF, they want AAs input on what they want and when it's voiced they say the same thing, they push it off on the GMOs and tell the AAs to get involved there. No GMO in my area, I would love to be involved, not enough long term dressage riders to start one either.



  7. #127
    Join Date
    Oct. 26, 2001
    Location
    Fredericksburg, VA
    Posts
    5,083

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    On a somewhat related note from an amateur eventer who likes to dabble in pure dressage - I've been following this topic with interest and am learning a lot. I have to say, the reason I'm not a member of USDF (I was for a brief moment as a junior until eventing took over most of my riding time), because of the cost/fees. I have a pretty nice moving OTTB that I think could be successful at 3rd, maybe 4th level. We're currently competing at prelim in eventing and schooling second level dressage, mostly because I think it's fun and want to improve myself, but also because it improves his jumping (plus, he gets better when he's got a lot to do during the test).

    My guy tends to get tense, so I try to get him in the dressage ring as much as possible, which happens at schooling shows for $20-$30 per test. I've thought about trying the opportunity classes, but in my area, I'm not sure if they go up to second level. I'd just be interested to see how we stack up against pure dressage horses. I just can't imagine paying $50 per test plus other fees when I can do it a lot cheaper, sometimes at the same venue as a recognized dressage show.

    If we ever stopped eventing and he was still sound/not too old to keep doing flatwork, I'd maybe try for a bronze medal, but as it is right now, I'm just too busy eventing to go after that and not show the legs off my horse! In a perfect world, I'd have one horse for eventing and one schoolmaster for playing around at recognized dressage shows.

    Anyways, my dressage trainer, who's also an 'R' judge, forwarded me an email a couple of months ago from a local member/officer of a VADA branch I believe. She was looking for volunteer riders for the USDF 'L' program testing and I thought it could be fun, so I signed up.

    I didn't know exactly what it entailed, other than I would be a demo rider for perspective 'L" program participants at first level. When I got there, I couldn't believe that there were about 60 people there to watch! I rode with two other riders (a pro and a junior) and demonstrated gaits and some first level movements and in the end, found out I was riding in front of an 'I' judge! It was nervewracking at first, but it was kind of fun to show off my horse and learn a little something in the process.

    No it wasn't a clinic, but I was chosen to participate with my non-traditional dressage horse and I wasn't even a USDF member, and I had a lot of fun! So I would recommend anyone who has the opportunity to participate in one of these as a rider (or auditor, although I think you have to pay) to go for it! I'm going to do the next session in January too, if the weather holds up.
    Lindsay

    Check out my blog at http://lindsayberreth.com



  8. #128
    Join Date
    Aug. 15, 2010
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    1,589

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    Piaffe Princess - I just wanted to say, the L program is a great educational opportunity, and thank you for volunteering to be a demo rider! The program depends on demo riders.

    This is an example of a great program that USDF backs, but a local GMO must actually host - and it is a lot (LOT) of work. It has been several years since we saw one in my area, the last few people I know who went through it flew out of state to participate.



  9. #129
    Join Date
    Jan. 10, 2002
    Location
    Area VIII, Region 2, Zone 5.
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    6,531

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    I want to mention the Carol Lavell Gifted Training Grants from the Dressage Foundation. They are for AAs, and provide money to be used for training. One is awarded in each region every year. One requirement is that you volunteer for your GMO and/or region. A friend of mine applied for it once. She was riding at Training/First level with her cute but nothing spectacular Paint mare. Guess what? She won the grant for our region. So here's a great example of a program for AAs who are not necessarily riding at FEI levels, but who do volunteer for their GMOs or their regions.
    Quote Originally Posted by Linny View Post
    Those martingales were so taut, you could play Ode to Joy on them with a comb



  10. #130
    Join Date
    Apr. 9, 2008
    Posts
    1,176

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    By now most folk reading this thread are thinking, “There she goes again, Pluvinel is one trick pony obsessed with the FEI trainer’s forum.”

    My day job is basically to do internal consulting at a Fortune 50 corporation. In this role I get to look at how to improve operations…..and I also teach Operations Management to MBA’s at a state university. My thoughts are based on experience with successful (and sometimes not so successful) businesses throughout my corporate travels.

    A basic tenet of marketing is as follows:
    • For each person who buys your product, 10 have thought about buying
    • For each person who has thought about buying, 10 have looked
    • For each person who has looked, 10 need to know about your product
    • For each person who has knows your product 10 need to be reached.


    Applying this ratio to the USDF, that works out that for one person to become a USDF member (10x10x10x10) = 10,000 have to be reached and made aware of USDF offerings.

    Bottom line, if USDF wants to grow, it needs to reach outside the tent.

    MLD states the following
    This information is all on their web site. Not sure USDF has a promotional problem. Seems to me like there is more of a problem with people not taking the time to find out what there.
    http://www.chronofhorse.com/forum/sh...97#post6714997
    That’s a pretty heliocentric attitude and assumes that the world knows about the USDF and looks at its web site.

    In looking at IRS 990’s, USDF revenues are just short of $4 million. Of that about half comes from membership fees. Anyone know what percentage of membership dollars comes from PM vs GM fees?

    The AA Committee is a USEF committee (led by USDF leadership). Anyone think this is putting the cart before the horse?

    The USEF is an organization that regulates horse competitions. Anyone ask how people get to competitions? By getting proficient at their sport. And how do they get proficient, they get involved and train. And how do they get involved? By knowing about a sport.

    That pesky 10-10-10-10 thing again. And thus, we come back to the USDF FEI Trainer’s Forum. It’s a great marketing tool. If they would open it to all comers and publicize it, perhaps more people might be interested in joining USDF….and if people join, they might…maybe….eventually decide to compete.

    Then we get to the question of whether competition is where the AA focus should be.


    4 members found this post helpful.

  11. #131
    Join Date
    Mar. 15, 2007
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    (throw dart at map) NC!
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    4,455

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    Well, for what it's worth, Pluvinel has ALOT to say here and I very much agree with her. Very many of us have given PLENTY of direct and indirect feedback to the USDF committees and had very little of it acknowledged. I have had direct communication with both Janet and Axel and sorry, Terri, Axel was completely uninterested in what I had to say and was also rather dismissive. I'm perplexed that he is serving on a an amateur-oriented committee. My direct conversations with Janet fared much better but she hasn't taken advantage of anything I offered. The "nerd herd" offered FREE scientific/professional consultation to the "powers that be" and it was not taken advantage of (and the herd comprised of bona-fide scientists, statisticians and business professionals DONATING their expertise and time). I have been in social situations with many of the "powers that be" and I know what many *actually* think about the average amateur and average horse. Of note, the livelihood of these same people won't change if the average AA drops off the map. The livelihood of the USDF will, however. The USDF should keep this in mind.
    Proud member of the Colbert Dressage Nation


    4 members found this post helpful.

  12. #132
    Join Date
    Apr. 9, 2008
    Posts
    1,176

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    I totally support the FB group, but I don't "do" FB....so I started another thread to engage Ms Foy & Mr. Steiner
    http://www.chronofhorse.com/forum/sh...19#post6724119

    The COTH Forums are a respected venue for discussion. So, let's start talking.
    Do not confuse motion and progress. A rocking horse keeps moving but does not make any progress.
    Alfred A. Montapert



  13. #133
    Join Date
    Mar. 24, 2010
    Location
    Tucson
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    5,784

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    Bumping - any and all input is still welcome. Showing or not, members of your GMO, USDF, USEF or not.
    My horse is a dressage diva so I don't have to be.

    Quote Originally Posted by katarine
    If you have a fat gay horse that likes Parelli, you're really screwed



  14. #134
    Join Date
    Apr. 23, 1999
    Location
    Rosehill, TX
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    6,988

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    amoung others, the NerdHerd made direct contact with eleven judges at a regional championship show a few years back asking for their input on the most useful direction to take in statistical analyses of trends in dressage

    a stamped/addressed envelope was provided but no responses were received
    Nothing says "I love you" like a tractor. (Clydejumper)

    The reports states, “Elizabeth reported that she accidently put down this pony, ........, at the show.”



  15. #135
    Join Date
    Aug. 14, 2004
    Posts
    7,538

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    i do not know if this has already been articulated, but i think one of the major problems is that the USDF is a competition organization (like the FEI) and only really sees itself from that angle.... it is all about showing.

    There should be avenues of education for EVERYONE who chooses to learn and there should be far more POVs that the in crowd....

    WE should also figure out how to educate folks on what correct training looks like and we also need more correct trainers out there.

    Also, there needs to be a way to lower costs and paper work. There should be ONE number/payment/subscription that would get you registered with all the relevant entities.


    1 members found this post helpful.

  16. #136
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    Jan. 29, 2002
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    1,590

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    Quote Originally Posted by mbm View Post
    i do not know if this has already been articulated, but i think one of the major problems is that the USDF is a competition organization (like the FEI) and only really sees itself from that angle.... it is all about showing....snipped>
    I agree, and I do not see a thing wrong with that. The USEF is about showing as well; always has been as far as I'm concerned. With the internet now, there is a wealth of information out there to help all riders and many trainers to select from if one can afford it. I have never expected anything from the USDF or USEF and still do not. The paperwork is a pita but the fees are not that high imo for what they provide. I really don't understand all the fuss about USDF, helping AA's, etc.


    1 members found this post helpful.

  17. #137
    Join Date
    Apr. 23, 1999
    Location
    Rosehill, TX
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    from the USDF website



    Where Your Dollars Go


    Our Mission

    USDF is dedicated to education, recognition of achievement, and promotion of dressage.
    Your Support

    By making a tax deductible donation to the USDF, a 501(c)(3) non-profit corporation, you are directly supporting our mission and programs which include instructor/trainer education and certification, educational books and DVDs, a learning program for judges, adult and youth clinics, breeder programs, symposia, competitions, award programs, and the promotion and future of dressage.
    Last edited by SGray; Dec. 20, 2012 at 02:10 PM. Reason: attribution
    Nothing says "I love you" like a tractor. (Clydejumper)

    The reports states, “Elizabeth reported that she accidently put down this pony, ........, at the show.”



  18. #138
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    Jan. 29, 2002
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    1,590

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    Quote Originally Posted by SGray View Post
    from the USDF website



    Where Your Dollars Go


    Our Mission

    USDF is dedicated to education, recognition of achievement, and promotion of dressage.
    Your Support

    By making a tax deductible donation to the USDF, a 501(c)(3) non-profit corporation, you are directly supporting our mission and programs which include instructor/trainer education and certification, educational books and DVDs, a learning program for judges, adult and youth clinics, breeder programs, symposia, competitions, award programs, and the promotion and future of dressage.
    Well, they are doing all that, so what's the complaint?


    1 members found this post helpful.

  19. #139
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    Aug. 15, 2010
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    1,589

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    Quote Originally Posted by ToN Farm View Post
    Well, they are doing all that, so what's the complaint?
    I agree, they are doing all of this! I've participated and/or audited many USDF programs (including L program, DSHB judging program, Instructor certification, and even FEI Trainer program). But I think one point being made in this thread is that USDF is losing membership. And most of that membership is the AA membership, so what can USDF do to re-engage those members? And when you look at many of the programs - they are not oriented toward AAs OR even worse, they are not open to them. And of course, the other issue - they are not available without spending a lot of time/money in travel. Although AAs are the vast majority of the USDF membership, the USDF support tends to go at a higher rate to the Jr/YRs and the Pros.

    So what can USDF do to re-engage their core base?

    I actually do believe USDF is a show-oriented organization - and I don't have a problem with that. But I also feel that USDF at times works against the show management to make things too complicated, too difficult, thus making shows more expensive and less available. The numerous horse ID numbers is just one example. Show managers could give you many other examples that may not effect our lifes directly - except the cost of shows keeps going up because they've gotten way too complex.

    Opening clinics and symposiums to all m-ship is just one idea brought up here. I also think rotating locations is important so all have access. And perhaps helping GMOs to put on programs such as L program which really are great learning opportunities!

    We have an Instructor Cert program going on right now in my "neighborhood" and there are 50 or 60 auditors at each session - the vast majority of those auditors are AAs! Only a handful of instructors and NO JR/YRs have shown up! AAs are eating up the education when they can get it.


    2 members found this post helpful.

  20. #140
    Join Date
    Mar. 11, 2010
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    181

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    Quote Originally Posted by pluvinel View Post

    That’s a pretty heliocentric attitude and assumes that the world knows about the USDF and looks at its web site.
    You spend the time to look up the Forms 990 but you can not spend the time to look through the USDF website. This is just about 2013. I would think most people that join a group such as the USDF can take the time to look through their website. It is not USDF's fault that people get lazy or are not up to speed with technology.

    What do you need them to do? Take you by the hand and show you the way?


    1 members found this post helpful.

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