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  1. #61
    Join Date
    Jun. 4, 2008
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    Close to Ocala,fl
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    816

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    Quote Originally Posted by HollysHobbies View Post
    AA drop out here...

    I won't be showing at licensed shows or renewing my membership for the first time in a few years.

    In my case, it's a MATH question...mostly (not entirely)

    Just to have enough memberships to ENTER A SHOW, I would have to pay $355 in membership fees. That's BEFORE I pick up an entry form...
    local GMO registration $60
    annual PM USDF $75
    USDF horse id $25
    USEF membership fee $55
    USEF horse fee $75
    AMHA membership fee $65

    Now, with entry form in hand...showing 1 day and not stabling for dressage on the "cheap"...
    USDF Drug Fee $16
    non-stabled horse fee $25
    office fee $25
    online entry fee $5

    So now we're at $483 and I still haven't entered a class and I'm working out of my trailer...
    $40 a class plus $10 BLM or GAIG fee per class x2 classes=$100

    =

    $583 plus gas $90=$673 for 2 CLASSES

    I love dressage, I'm sad I won't be able to continue pursuing my Silver Medal, but I just can't justify spending 25% of my income per MONTH to sign up for 2 dressage classes anymore (assuming we don't go over the fiscal cliff, in which case 28%). I get it. Horses are expensive...showing is REALLY expensive (for me)

    My local GMO isn't very active anymore--the only time I interacted with them was when I volunteered at the recognized show for a day. I did ask the local GMO VP about clinics (in case I was just missing the boat), but she said that the GMO guard was burned out and there just wasn't the enthusiasm or young blood to organize anything. I know clinic organizing is a huge undertaking, so I understand. I certainly don't have time (though I do volunteer to help if someone else organizes) with a full time job, working part-time at the barn, and odd other jobs for trainer.

    As I recall, riding in the USDF clinics are expensive (even for members)...so I never went, choosing to audit or ride in private and far more local dressage clinics instead.

    I know most AAs probably aren't in my low financial bracket, but that's my math.

    I do think if USDF had or advertised more clinics around the country that I would go audit, even if I couldn't ride. It seems to me that we DESPERATELY need ONE website that people hosting clinics open to auditors can list. A DRESSAGE CLINIC LIST by REGION for when BNT or Riders are coming to the area. VADA doesn't. The local GMO doesn't either. Nor does USDF unless it is one of the few clinics they themselves sponsor. It's all word of mouth around here! Just a small suggestion.
    I am bit late the this thread BUT this is also my situation.



  2. #62
    Join Date
    Mar. 10, 2006
    Location
    midwest
    Posts
    344

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    Quote Originally Posted by mjhco View Post
    How is stating a horse is a Dutch cross when it is a Dutch cross dishonest?
    I think most folks would agree that a Dutch Harness Horse is a very different breed than a Dutch Warmblood. And the intent was to misrepresent the horse as having Warmblood breeding. (The horse itself was very nice, and one would hope it could do well listed as what it actually is.)
    Not condemning her, but the point was made asking if anyone had actually heard her say anything in person-I did, and quoted her above.



  3. #63
    Join Date
    Mar. 9, 2006
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    1,081

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    Quote Originally Posted by mishmash View Post
    I think most folks would agree that a Dutch Harness Horse is a very different breed than a Dutch Warmblood. And the intent was to misrepresent the horse as having Warmblood breeding. (The horse itself was very nice, and one would hope it could do well listed as what it actually is.)
    Not condemning her, but the point was made asking if anyone had actually heard her say anything in person-I did, and quoted her above.
    You DO understand that they are both under KWPN

    And that KWPN has THREE categories

    paarden voor dressuur, springen, tuigpaarden en het Gelders paard.

    Are you saying that a horse from the 'springen' category and the 'dresseur' category can be called Dutch but the tuidpaarden cannot?


    1 members found this post helpful.

  4. #64
    Join Date
    Mar. 10, 2006
    Location
    midwest
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    344

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    Quote Originally Posted by mjhco View Post
    You DO understand that they are both under KWPN

    And that KWPN has THREE categories

    paarden voor dressuur, springen, tuigpaarden en het Gelders paard.

    Are you saying that a horse from the 'springen' category and the 'dresseur' category can be called Dutch but the tuidpaarden cannot?
    Sweetie, trust me-the intent was to misrepresent the horse as a Dutch Warmblood cross-not Dutch Harness Horse cross. They ARE different. If that was not the intent of the statement, why say anything at all-why not assume the horse would be listed as a Dutch cross, or a TB cross, or a draft cross? Why specifically bring it up, and say that then everyone would think it was a Warmblood cross, if there is no difference?



  5. #65
    Join Date
    Mar. 9, 2006
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    1,081

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    Quote Originally Posted by mishmash View Post
    Sweetie, trust me-the intent was to misrepresent the horse as a Dutch Warmblood cross-not Dutch Harness Horse cross. They ARE different. If that was not the intent of the statement, why say anything at all-why not assume the horse would be listed as a Dutch cross, or a TB cross, or a draft cross? Why specifically bring it up, and say that then everyone would think it was a Warmblood cross, if there is no difference?
    What did she say when you questioned her in public about that comment?


    And I must say I have never had Janet nor Axel or Dr. Clayton nor Ms. Ayers call me 'sweetie'.


    1 members found this post helpful.

  6. #66
    Join Date
    Apr. 9, 2008
    Posts
    1,232

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    For the record, the new AA entity is a Sub Committee of the USEF Dressage Committee (not USDF).
    Ok...so there goes the USDF FEI Trainer's forum...guess I won't be going to Fla.

    For those who feel the need to say ugly things about those on the committee, HAVE YOU EVER TALKED TO ANY OF THESE USEF AA COMMITTEE MEMBERS?

    In person. Not third hand?

    If you had, I am sure your comments about these people would be considerably kinder.
    How do you know we haven't? Multiple times.

    And how about this: why don't you AAs here complaining about representation, and whether the people volunteering their time and expertise are worthy of representing you, step up and get on a committee?
    Again, how do you know we haven't?

    And for those of you who casually dismissed the Facebook AAEI group and say, TPTB should come here to see what we're saying: there is one huge difference with having a discussion on FB instead of having a discussion on a chat board:

    Real names.
    So here's mine....Ana Diaz....what's yours?

    The comments dissing the AA's speaking up, anonymously or not, are an example of the problem that AA's are trying to showcase. No one is listening.

    As some wise man (or woman) once said, "Seek to understand before asking to be understood."



  7. #67
    Join Date
    Mar. 16, 2011
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    545

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    Quote Originally Posted by mishmash View Post
    I think most folks would agree that a Dutch Harness Horse is a very different breed than a Dutch Warmblood. And the intent was to misrepresent the horse as having Warmblood breeding. (The horse itself was very nice, and one would hope it could do well listed as what it actually is.)
    Not condemning her, but the point was made asking if anyone had actually heard her say anything in person-I did, and quoted her above.
    My horse is KWPN, and happens to be a Dutch Harness Horse cross. The other half is also warmblood, but I don't think it's misrepresentation to call him a Dutch Warmblood.



  8. #68
    Join Date
    Mar. 25, 2011
    Location
    Pennsylvania
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    5,072

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    Outside of breeding services what does it matter what you call your horse?

    Paula
    He is total garbage! Quick! Hide him on my trailer (Petstorejunkie).



  9. #69
    Join Date
    Jan. 29, 2002
    Posts
    1,623

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    Quote Originally Posted by paulaedwina View Post
    Outside of breeding services what does it matter what you call your horse?Paula
    Yes and No. If I am horse shopping, it would matter to me. A lot of people with warmblood sires and TB dams, call their horse a warmblood instead of a cross. If I had such a horse for sale, I would list it as (for example) Dutch/TB Cross. If I saw a horse that was listed as Dutch Warmblood, I would be disappointed if it turned out to be a Dutch Harness horse crossed with a Draft or what have you. That is not to say that any crosses cannot be nice horses. I just think they should be listed for sale as precisely what they are based on the sire and dam.


    1 members found this post helpful.

  10. #70
    Join Date
    Mar. 25, 2011
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    Pennsylvania
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    I didn't think of that.

    Paula
    He is total garbage! Quick! Hide him on my trailer (Petstorejunkie).



  11. #71
    Join Date
    Mar. 27, 2001
    Location
    North County, San Diego
    Posts
    597

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    So here's mine....Ana Diaz....what's yours?
    Terri Miller. It even says so in my signature.



  12. #72
    Join Date
    Oct. 2, 1999
    Location
    Mendocino County, CA: Turkey Vulture HQ
    Posts
    14,462

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    For the record, pluvinel is part of the group of amateur riders who did a substantial statistical analysis of dressage scores a few years ago. So she has indeed stuck her neck out there pretty far and IMHO certainly been someone who has tried to be part of the solution.
    If you are allergic to a thing, it is best not to put that thing in your mouth, particularly if the thing is cats. - Lemony Snicket



  13. #73
    Join Date
    Nov. 1, 1999
    Location
    Shangri-LA
    Posts
    1,726

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    you know I've watched AA v/s USDF debate since at least 2000, always the same thing; the USDF asks AAs what the USDF can do for AAs etc, AAs start up the dialog and voice legitimate complaints and always the same response from the USDF, all AAs do is complain and don't contribute anything (other than the bulk of the membership dues). Is the new committee a result of declining memberships and declining dollars for the USDF. Also, not every dressage rider is interested in showing.



  14. #74
    Join Date
    Mar. 10, 2006
    Location
    midwest
    Posts
    344

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    Quote Originally Posted by mjhco View Post
    What did she say when you questioned her in public about that comment?


    And I must say I have never had Janet nor Axel or Dr. Clayton nor Ms. Ayers call me 'sweetie'.
    I did not confront her about it-wish now I had, but was too surprised to say anything at time. There are at least 2 other people on this forum who heard the comment-perhaps they might speak up if they see this and confirm it was said.
    And I agree-it should not matter what breed a horse is...or maybe, with some people it does??

    I admire the time Janet Foy has put into dressage over the years-she is dedicated and hard working. I have never shown under her, but those who have find her to be a good judge. The clinic I attended was educational, with good instruction.

    BUT-we all have preconceived notions, prejudices, and our own ideas. All of us. If you are in a position of authority though, you best keep them to yourself. There are certain breeds of horses I would not be interested in owning-that is ok, but no one is paying a lot of money to show under me. If I were a judge, and publicly made my feelings known-that would be inappropriate, at best, and would cast a big question mark in the minds of those showing under me.



  15. #75
    Join Date
    Jul. 31, 2007
    Posts
    15,266

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    Quote Originally Posted by mjhco View Post
    You DO understand that they are both under KWPN

    And that KWPN has THREE categories

    paarden voor dressuur, springen, tuigpaarden en het Gelders paard.

    Are you saying that a horse from the 'springen' category and the 'dresseur' category can be called Dutch but the tuidpaarden cannot?
    No. But are you trying to say that a Tuigpaard looks/moves much like the KWPN riding horses?
    The armchair saddler
    Politically Pro-Cat



  16. #76
    Join Date
    Jul. 31, 2007
    Posts
    15,266

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    Quote Originally Posted by js View Post
    you know I've watched AA v/s USDF debate since at least 2000, always the same thing; the USDF asks AAs what the USDF can do for AAs etc, AAs start up the dialog and voice legitimate complaints and always the same response from the USDF, all AAs do is complain and don't contribute anything (other than the bulk of the membership dues). Is the new committee a result of declining memberships and declining dollars for the USDF. Also, not every dressage rider is interested in showing.
    So... is the SOP to

    1. note that membership drops
    2. Genuinely wonder what to do
    3. Ask membership how to do better
    3a. Think the PR from this move is a very fine idea
    4. Get no clear results, or some you can't/won't implement?

    I don't get it. How can the Powers That Be in the USDF (or the USDF) not have any clue what the rank-and-file's problem is? Do they not put their pants on one leg at a time, too?

    I really don't get it.
    The armchair saddler
    Politically Pro-Cat



  17. #77
    Join Date
    Feb. 9, 2000
    Posts
    2,391

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    Quote Originally Posted by ToN Farm View Post
    Yes and No. If I am horse shopping, it would matter to me. A lot of people with warmblood sires and TB dams, call their horse a warmblood instead of a cross. If I had such a horse for sale, I would list it as (for example) Dutch/TB Cross. If I saw a horse that was listed as Dutch Warmblood, I would be disappointed if it turned out to be a Dutch Harness horse crossed with a Draft or what have you. That is not to say that any crosses cannot be nice horses. I just think they should be listed for sale as precisely what they are based on the sire and dam.
    If the TB dam is approved and entered into a warmblood registry, then a foal from that mare and a warmblood sire IS a warmblood, because that's what the registry considers it to be.

    My trainer owns a Danish Warmblood-approved and branded full-TB mare, and every foal out of her by an approved warmblood sire is registered and branded as full Danish Warmblood.

    That's the way it works with warmbloods - it's registries, not breeds (except for maybe Trakehner).


    2 members found this post helpful.

  18. #78
    Join Date
    Mar. 25, 2011
    Location
    Pennsylvania
    Posts
    5,072

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    Quote Originally Posted by mvp View Post
    So... is the SOP to

    1. note that membership drops
    2. Genuinely wonder what to do
    3. Ask membership how to do better
    3a. Think the PR from this move is a very fine idea
    4. Get no clear results, or some you can't/won't implement?

    I don't get it. How can the Powers That Be in the USDF (or the USDF) not have any clue what the rank-and-file's problem is? Do they not put their pants on one leg at a time, too?

    I really don't get it.
    As with other long-lived organizations, it may just be a combination of inertia and lack of consensus. Enough people with power are likely quite happy with status quo?

    Paula
    He is total garbage! Quick! Hide him on my trailer (Petstorejunkie).



  19. #79
    Join Date
    Feb. 20, 2011
    Location
    Dutchess county, NY
    Posts
    910

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    Quote Originally Posted by mbm View Post
    fwiw i dont think Clayton is an "AA" in the "real" sense... she is hobknobbing with the very top of the sport... has no clue what us real ammies are doing.

    we need REAL representation.
    I believe Hilary is the perfect example of an AA. She works full time. She earned her bronze silver and gold medals on Arabian horses that she brought up the levels.

    I think the problem with "AA" is that it a very broad group, with lots of different economic backgrounds and folks that show as AA even though they might not exactly fit the criteria.


    2 members found this post helpful.

  20. #80
    Join Date
    Aug. 14, 2004
    Posts
    7,538

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    fwiw, i assume "AA" in this context means someone NOT at the top echelons of the sport - who isn't in full training and who doesn't have access to excellent training - and its not about full time jobs.

    AA = most of us slobs at the bottom.

    (maybe it should be average Adult ammie =AAA)

    Dr Clayton obviously has access to good training and has been able to make it to the top..... so therefore she is not average...


    1 members found this post helpful.

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