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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Apr. 7, 2012
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    Caledon
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    68

    Question Hochadel.... what do you know?

    What can you tell me about Hochadel? I would love to hear from those of you with experience with his offspring, or who have bred to him in the past?

    • Does anyone know if it is confirmed - will he be offered frozen from Celle for 2013?
    • Has anyone seen him "in the flesh"? What did you think?
    • Offspring? What do you think he transmits?
    • What does he bring to the mix?
    • Have you seen/ridden his offspring - what do you think?
    • Character?
    • Ridability
    • Gaits?
    • Conformation?
    • What kind of mare suits him best?
    • Market for Hochadel offspring in NA?


    Comments on this potential cross:
    http://www.sporthorse-data.com/dbtes...damid=10775015

    She is still young, expecting her first foal this year so I don't know yet what to expect from her, will need to choose for 2013 before she foals to import semen. She and was easy to breed (1x=preg) and my vet is a therio so should be a candidate for frozen... worth a shot? She's a sensitive mare with lots of pizazz but a lovely topline & uphill but she needs a level-headed mate that brings ridability. A big girl, 17H so will this cross - TANK?



  2. #2
    Join Date
    Mar. 11, 1999
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    Clayton, CA USA
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    4,920

    Default

    I have seen Hochadel on a couple of occasions. I find him stunning, with great conformation, particularly his topline and loin/hip connection. His gaits are outstanding. He has an approved son, Heinrich Heine, standing at Celle who also has outstanding gaits and ridability. Superior Equine Sires has confirmed that his frozen semen will be available this year.
    Mystic Owl Sporthorses
    www.mysticowlsporthorses.com



  3. #3
    Join Date
    Apr. 28, 2009
    Location
    Alberta's bread basket
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    Celle confirmed that their test mares were able to get pregnant using Hochadel's frozen semen. I understood there was a new product and procedure that they used and the semen seems to be okay with it. Celle will always provide enough straws to ensure a reasonable chance at pregnancy. That all being said, and I know some people might be thinking about this, while there are some stallions you can split doses and end up with 2 or more pregnancies from a single dose, his is not one I, personally, would consider doing that with until it is better known just how well his new and improved semen performs on the open market in the general mare pool.
    http://www.mariposasporthorses.com/

    Practice! Patience! Persistence!



  4. #4
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    I found an article I had saved on my computer discussing certain trakehners and their influence on the Hanoverian - specifically Hohenstein, Caprimond, Karon and the great Arogno.

    This whole particular line of stallions tend to stamp their offspring strongly with excellent riding type, character, and improvement of rideability. Additionally, while Caprimond needed length of leg in the mare, Hohenstein passed on good length of leg and frame. Both Caprimond and Hohenstein saw very good success when crossed with Weltmeyer or Donnerhall mares, which is where Hochadel comes in as he is the result of that classic nick.

    With Hochadel, I have seen crosses doubling up the Donnerhall and they are very good horses (many breeders feel safe linebreeding or even slightly inbreeding to Donnerhall being aware that Donnerhall can produce a heavier type); but, some of the better crosses are with Rubinstein, Lauries Crusador and Weltmeyer descended mares, with stallions produced from these pairings.

    Heinrich Heine (Rubinstein)
    High Crusador (Lauries Crusador)
    Hochstern (Lauries Crusador)
    Hohenzollern (Weltmeyer)
    Hochmeister (Sherlock Holmes x Weltmeyer mare)

    As you know, Rubinstein, Weltmeyer and Lauries Crusador, generally speaking, tended to stamp their offspring with a certain look, so that gives you a good idea of the mares' types. Other breeders might have more information.
    http://www.mariposasporthorses.com/

    Practice! Patience! Persistence!



  5. #5
    Join Date
    Feb. 10, 2006
    Location
    SF Bay area
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    1,046

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    Quote Originally Posted by rodawn View Post
    I found an article I had saved on my computer discussing certain trakehners and their influence on the Hanoverian - specifically Hohenstein, Caprimond, Karon and the great Arogno.
    ah yes - I wrote that article many years ago!
    RoseLane Sporthorses-Westfalen horses and ponies
    Home of Golden State- 2012 Bundeschampion 3yo Pony Stallion
    Home of Golden West - 2013 Reserve Champion Westfalen Pony Stallion Licensing



  6. #6
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    Aug. 14, 2004
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    7,538

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    what do you folks think of Hochadel on Wolkentanz I mare?



  7. #7
    Join Date
    Apr. 7, 2012
    Location
    Caledon
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    Default

    Honeylips - would you be able to post the article again?

    What are your thoughts on the cross x my mare Avaia (Alabaster/Ehrentusch)?
    http://www.sporthorse-data.com/dbtes...damid=10775015



  8. #8
    Join Date
    Mar. 1, 2007
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    Canada
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    I have seen him a number of times both in the stall and under saddle. He is really a nice horse, lots of Trakehner presence, beautiful face and neck, big frame, super ability to collect. Maybe a bit long in the back but he clearly uses himself well. A very impressive stallion that I would also love to try one of these times I am just not sure of what he is producing?
    www.svhanoverians.com

    "Simple: Breeding,Training, Riding". Wolfram Wittig.



  9. #9
    Join Date
    Oct. 12, 2006
    Location
    Canada
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    I've seen Hochadel three times in person, Heinrich Heine twice. I love both of them. Beautiful, elegant types, good expression, and fantastic temperaments.

    I would love to have a Hochadel offspring in my barn (or the barn I board at! hah!)
    Member OMGiH I loff my mares clique!!!



  10. #10
    Join Date
    Oct. 29, 2008
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    1,642

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    OP - I know and absolutely adore your mare. So regal, tons of presence, liver chestnut on top of it all.
    And I really like and admire Hochadel, and do think his foals will be marketable in NA. I wonder, though whether you might look to stallions known to add legs without adding bulk. Maybe Romanov or Sir Donnerhall --- or if you want fresh, the Sir Donnerhall son Sir Gregory (if he gets his Hano approval). Dauphin might be interesting too, as he doesn't usually add size.
    On Celle's list there is Londonderry and Sporcken.
    Question - I have not seen Heinrich Heine ... is he lighter or heavier than Hochadel?



  11. #11
    Join Date
    Mar. 11, 1999
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    Clayton, CA USA
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    Both Hochadel and Heinrich Heine, to me, are modern types and not heavy. Heinrich Heine may be leggier than Hochadel. When I saw him, what really impressed me is that he was tacked up in his stall at Celle, led out, mounted on a cement aise and ridden through a crowd of people without flicking an ear or toe. I like that quality in a horse.
    Mystic Owl Sporthorses
    www.mysticowlsporthorses.com



  12. #12
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    Mar. 1, 2007
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    Canada
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    I honestly thought (in my humble opinion) Hochadel was quite bulky ....or rather very large framed. Heinrich Heine is a lighter version of the sire.
    www.svhanoverians.com

    "Simple: Breeding,Training, Riding". Wolfram Wittig.


    1 members found this post helpful.

  13. #13
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    When I saw both Hochadel and Heinrich Heine, Hochadel oozed power and was an impressively regal horse. Loved that about him. You want real power in a dressage horse, especially in the hindquarters where it is really required. Temperament and behaviour were exemplary. I saw nothing glaring in the way of serious conformational faults for him and his movement was correct - a tiny bit of this or that is not really serious. Hochadel stands 171 cm - which is about 17.1 hands.

    Heinrich Heine was still quite youthful when I saw him and obviously still growing and that could account for some of the smaller build that some people are talking about. He is still only 7 years old now and while he *should* be finished growing, maybe, he might not be. I have had warmbloods continue to grow into greater body frame into their 8th year. Heinrich Heine looked longer to me than Hochadel did and Heinrich Heine has a flatter, weaker croup - no, on second thought, that's not quite the right word that I want... his hindquarters and their connection did not look as powerful as I would like to see in a dressage horse. At 172 cm tall, he is not exactly a small horse. That translates to about 17.2 hands tall, but it's his musculature that should continue filling out during his 6, 7 and 8 year old years.

    His lineage goes very well with Weltmeyer - for the one who asked, so using him with a Wolkentanz mare might be just what you wanted. I'm definitely considering him for my Wolkentanz-Belisar mare.

    The stats specifically accumulated on Hochadel state that he improves the legs, improves type and improves dressage ability. There is no question Hochadel produces quality foals and very high quality riding horses. He has proven himself a multitude of times over and over again and his abilities as a quality producer should not really be in question. He has at least 55 States Premium mares registered just in Hanover alone out of about 205 total broodmares registered. That's a very high percentage of nearly 27% premium quality.
    http://www.mariposasporthorses.com/

    Practice! Patience! Persistence!



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