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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jul. 30, 2005
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    England
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    10,667

    Default Would you buy a horse that had failed the vet on flex tests?

    I came across a nice horse for sale. Ad says:

    '16.3hh, 8 yrs, homebred gelding by Dexter IV. Evented Novice BE, has BD points and many winnings BS. Wonderful temp., snaffle mouth, no vices. 100% box, clip, shoe, traffic. Failed 5* vetting on flexion test, hence £2, 500. Very sad sale.'

    Would you even consider him?

    Thanks!
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  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jan. 22, 2003
    Location
    Chicago, IL
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    1,181

    Default

    Doesn't bother me. I bought a horse that didn't flex very well on one hind, and he was super sound. Had evented to Advanced as well with no gaps in his show record. I would probably take x-rays and do a more thorough evaluation though. Flexions don't tell the whole story.
    ~Isabel

    Proud owner and Head Groom for Infinity Sport Horse
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    1 members found this post helpful.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Nov. 13, 2005
    Location
    between the mountains and the sea, North Carolina
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    2,936

    Default

    wow only that much for a horse thats done all that? I'd look up his records & have my own vet do x rays & ask their opinion on suitability for what I wanted.
    "Choose to chance the rapids, and dare to dance the tides" - Garth Brooks
    "With your permission, dear, I'll take my fences one at a time" - Maggie Smith, Downton Abbey



  4. #4
    Join Date
    Dec. 20, 2011
    Posts
    1,192

    Default

    Definitely get a second opinion if everything else looks suitable for what you want!



  5. #5
    Join Date
    Dec. 7, 2004
    Location
    Chapel Hill, NC
    Posts
    512

    Default

    If he is currently doing his job, and has been for years, with no issues- and you don't plan on ramping up his level of work intensely, go for it (with radiographs that don't show anything terrifying).



  6. #6
    Join Date
    Nov. 19, 2005
    Location
    Lost in the Sandhills of NC
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    2,596

    Default

    If I liked the horse, I'd absolutely investigate further. Flexions just don't mean that much to me. I certainly wouldn't pass a flex test.


    1 members found this post helpful.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Mar. 29, 2008
    Posts
    497

    Default

    Didn't Boyd buy Ying Yang Yo, knowing that he didn't pass his vet check 100%??

    I had a horse that passed but was given a 2/5 on his left hock - maybe he was just stiff that day as he was never unsound in the 3 yrs I had him..the vet did tell me, that nowadays (and I do quote what she said) 'that vets will sometimes give a horse an unperfect score etc, so that they are not liable for anything.' Hmmm, kind of a weird saying but in some ways makes sense I guess.
    I agree with Pegasus - could be worth a shot especially depending on what your use is -Novice vs Advanced etc.



  8. #8
    Join Date
    Mar. 9, 2003
    Location
    Baldwin, MD
    Posts
    617

    Default

    Horses don't pass or fail flexions. Vets simply flex the limbs and note if the horse has obvious discomfort, rated on a relatively objective scale, when the horse trots off.

    MOST horses have some discomfort following flexions. Think about if someone cranked your knee/elbow/wrist/ankle as hard as they could for 60-90 seconds. You'd probably hobble off lame, but you're not actually lame! It just signifies that there *could* be some underlying problem that warrants FURTHER INVESTIGATION.

    Flexion tests are simply a tool to localize lameness for further diagnostics, or to identify problems that could potentially pose a problem in the future.


    6 members found this post helpful.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Oct. 22, 2001
    Posts
    5,211

    Default

    What Lauren said. In my experience, it's very very rare to have a horse that is actively competing not have at least a 1/5 on at least one leg, and often several. Heck, both of my upper level horses flexed 1/5 or 2/5 on all four legs - and both of them successfully went on to do long format 1* and 2*, plus many many horse trials. Of course, I'd want to know how badly the horse flexed and look at the xrays carefully, but it might not necessarily be a total deal breaker - just part of the total batch of information.


    1 members found this post helpful.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Apr. 2, 2009
    Location
    North Carolina
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    Default

    I agree that horses do not "pass" or "fail" -- they simply present and then the humans inevitably draw conclusions. I don't put a lot of faith in them other than as possible indicators of something I might want to look into. How the flexions are done can also have dramatic effects on what the horse presents. I seriously doubt a fair number of competing horses at T or higher would flex 100% zero result. I know I sure don't!



  11. #11
    Join Date
    Jul. 30, 2005
    Location
    England
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    Default

    Thanks! I actually agree with you on the flexion tests. (I told the vet not to bother doing them on the baby horse. We shot x-rays instead.)

    Does it seem strange to anyone else that someone would pass on this horse given that he only failed on
    flexions?

    (I may be over thinking this. I'm on pills. )
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    2 members found this post helpful.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Aug. 25, 2005
    Location
    Northeast
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    10,955

    Default

    Depends on who did the flexions. Not all flexors are created equal.
    Some riders change their horse, they change their saddle, they change their teacher; they never change themselves.


    2 members found this post helpful.

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Nov. 9, 2012
    Posts
    128

    Default

    Depends. Are we talking 3/5 or 4/5 after flexing? Or 1/5? And what did the radiographs show?

    My guess is there is something else going on; I would proceed with caution.


    1 members found this post helpful.

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Jul. 30, 2005
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    England
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    Default

    No idea. I only know what the advert says.
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  15. #15
    Join Date
    Mar. 16, 2009
    Location
    NH
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    618

    Default

    Some horses xray completely clean and are lame (one of our horses, perfect xrays but he has been lame for months now, all diagnostics show nothing) while other horses xray like crap (my most recent purchase) but are sound and flex 100% sound. Like everyone else said, if the horse has been doing it's job just fine with minimal extra care (injections, joint supplement, whatever) and the xrays are congruent with his age then I'd go ahead with it.



  16. #16
    Join Date
    Sep. 13, 2012
    Posts
    129

    Default

    I'd want the exact results of the flexions (what legs, and what grade lameness -- 1/5, 2/5, etc) and I'd take rads of anything that flexed significantly off before purchase, just to be safe.

    Also, if it's going to be a personal horse that you will keep for years and years and years, that's different than a horse that you want to resell that won't pass the flexions.

    That being said, I have a wonderful and sound horse that won't pass a PPE for a variety of reasons. Sound horses don't always mean a perfect PPE.



  17. #17
    Join Date
    Jan. 6, 2011
    Location
    Florida
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    1,389

    Default

    I bought my horse with failed flexions on th front fetllocks. He was a seasoned competitor. And had done a ton with a junior rider and brought her up the levels. The best perssonality, good head, good orse in general. Bought him on the spot.
    I am on my phone 90% of the time. Please ignore typos, misplaced lower case letters, and the random word butchered by autocowreck.




  18. #18
    Join Date
    Jul. 11, 2007
    Location
    Marietta
    Posts
    391

    Default

    NO on a young prospect. YES/maybe on a horse that was already doing his job and like the others have said, you weren't planning on ramping up the intensity. Eventing isn't easy on the joints, and I would be frankly surprised if a seasoned competitor didn't have a few issues on the pre purchase. At best, it can give you some wiggle room on the price.



  19. #19
    Join Date
    Jun. 16, 2007
    Posts
    1,900

    Default Mine was pos

    That led to xrays...artifacts in 3 joints(each hock and 1 fetlock). Noted vets opinion none of them would ever cause a problem. 6 years later with a working life...never lame. Never could repeat the flexion to be pos either but the pos xrays stopped the customers. So I would say if it is for you go if it is potentially for resale may not want to. PatO



  20. #20
    Join Date
    Jan. 14, 2006
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    Nashville, TN
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