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  1. #21
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    Feb. 22, 2009
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    Wisconsin
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    My response when I go to ER or Doctor no matter what is always : It happened on my own property and by my own horse. And the sheets they send, eh I just throw them away


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  2. #22
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    Nov. 13, 2009
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anne FS View Post
    Except the article says "her" lawsuit, not the insurance company's.
    That's how subrogation works. The insurance company is generally the "subrogated plaintiff" - they can file a lawsuit on your behalf and you are obligated as a condition of insurance to cooperate with their efforts.


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  3. #23
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    Sep. 7, 2009
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChocoMare View Post
    While I understand this, you don't HAVE to tell all the details of where, etc. I was injured twice at the private farm where I self-care board. I got the traditional "Spanish Inquisition" form from my insurance company. I simply replied back "Self induced injury" and mailed it back with other spaces left blank. There's NO WAY on God's green earth I'm gonna say it was Mrs. B. G's farm at 123 Main St and have them go after her/her insurance.
    Unless you're caught. Then it's fraud.
    "We can judge the heart of a man by his treatment of animals." ~Immanuel Kant


    5 members found this post helpful.

  4. #24
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    Aug. 9, 2007
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    assumption of risk.

    (and yes, I am a retired prosecutor.)
    The good samaritan laws prevent you from getting sued if you help someone and harm them in the process. These laws were passed to protect those of us who stop and try to help people out at accident scenes. But the assumption of risk concept, from old English common law, says if you step in voluntarily and get hurt, too bad. And the equine liability acts in each state also control the outcome.

    Of course the law also assumes that people have common sense. And know when to act and when not to help out.


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  5. #25
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    Aug. 9, 2007
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    Quote Originally Posted by FineAlready View Post
    That's how subrogation works. The insurance company is generally the "subrogated plaintiff" - they can file a lawsuit on your behalf and you are obligated as a condition of insurance to cooperate with their efforts.
    Right. Or you can opt out and hire your own lawyer. But then your insurance company can wash its hands of you. (My law school professor, from Illinois, wrote the casebook on insurance way back when I was in law school.)



  6. #26
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    Oct. 3, 2002
    Location
    Boogerville, USA
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    858

    Exclamation Wait a minute!

    I am VERY familiar with the Wayne County Fairgrounds, and this situation is NOT what you think it is!

    This was *not* a horse show. The horses at the WCF are Standardbred racehorses that are stabled and trained there year 'round, as there is a training track there. The horses trailer out to whatever track they are slated to run at, and trailer back.

    I know (knew?) some of the people there; in fact did evening feeding for an owner/trainer/driver there. My equine vet stables and trains some of his racehorses there.

    There are only a handful of trainers there, and they all interact and help each other, etc. The person injured worked there for her father, a StBrd trainer; it was simply her day off.

    What I want to know is: does her father work for Landfair, or not?
    Maybe her father had asked her to stop by and help with the new filly to come in to be trained? Maybe she came in to get paid?

    I will see I can find out more - I have a very good friend who worked there up until about a year ago ... but she never had days off

    I'm sure she'll know the details.

    * As with any horsey business, there are nasty characters awa good ones.
    The name Landfair rings a definite bell, but for good or bad, I can't recall right now.
    The horse community here is VERY small, however.
    Last edited by nasalberry; Dec. 7, 2012 at 06:51 PM. Reason: Added Info.


    2 members found this post helpful.

  7. #27
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    Oct. 14, 2010
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    I found the decision if anyone is interested:
    http://www.supremecourt.ohio.gov/rod...-ohio-5692.pdf


    See above - more to this than meets the eye. Sounds like Smith was groom for her father who was training horses for Landfair. Landfair took two horses to an offsite blacksmith. He came back, unloaded one mare & put her up then went back to get the other one. When he was unloading the 2 yro the Amish team went by, she jumped and he went down. Smith went in to get the horse and got kicked. She claimed she wasn't a spectator because she wasn't there watching this horse; she was watching another horse.

    Someone please explain to me how you can be employed as a groom and not know that sh!t happens when horses spook? I mean it sucks that she got kicked, but this ranks up there with the old coot who sued another exhibitor after he fell of his horse at a saddlebred show.


    11 members found this post helpful.

  8. #28
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    Oct. 3, 2002
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    Boogerville, USA
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    Ah. One of "those" owners.

    They choose to haul their horses to an Amish blacksmith who shoe horses for $5 a head, instead of any of the really good farriers. My farrier worked for 25 years as an on-site farrier at Northfield Park (Stdrbd racetrack near Cleveland); many of the other race-people use him as well.


    5 members found this post helpful.

  9. #29
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    Oct. 3, 2002
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    Boogerville, USA
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    ... He is also a K/B:
    Landfair Bros. SL Stables, Oh.

    The Landfair Brothers attend the Sugarcreek, Oh auction. They also advertise in a little paper called "The Vender," that sits on a bench at the auction. He is listed on the list of licensed livestock dealers for the state of Ohio. He also uses the name SL stables. Ohio livestock dealer # for 2007 is 99. He has a brother that is also on the list of dealers. His brothers name is Donald E. Landfair 4899 E. Moreland Rd. Fredericksburg, Oh 44627 330-698-1363 Holems County, Oh.Livestock
    dealer license No. for 2007 is 114.
    http://www.freewebs.com/mulekist/ourblacklist.htm

    Not the type of person I'd want handling a horse ...
    http://courtsweb.waynecountycourthou...e_sum?14025972


    2 members found this post helpful.

  10. #30
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    Mar. 12, 2006
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    Quote Originally Posted by red mares View Post
    Someone please explain to me how you can be employed as a groom and not know that sh!t happens when horses spook? I mean it sucks that she got kicked, but this ranks up there with the old coot who sued another exhibitor after he fell of his horse at a saddlebred show.
    Totally different situations. And yeah, you work around horses so you know things can go to *ell quickly. She was trying to save the persons life. You sometimes only have seconds to react, I think it's stinky of the horse owner not to help with medical costs. I know what has been said about help out with costs means you take responsibilty, but aren't you a bit responsible?

    If you are in a car accident, car is on fire and someone injures themselves saving your life, you aren't going to help them in return? Tough crowd.
    "All top hat and no canter". *Graureiter*


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  11. #31
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    Apr. 26, 2009
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    Stroudsburg, PA
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    I can't comment on this one because I was not there to see it with my own eyes but I personally would not hold someone else responsible if I chose to jump in and help. Yes it sucks to get hurt but I am responsible for me and I am okay with it if I made the decision to get involved. I've had some "fun" injuries and I never had a problem being honest on the insurance forms but I've always made it clear that I was responsible even if I was on someone elses property, I have yet to have any insurance company question me further. I feel bad she was injured but that was the risk she took when she could see there was a horse that was clearly upset and reacting as such. I don't blame her for wanting to help but common sense would tell you that it's a possibility that you may get hurt in that situation.
    The one good thing about repeating your mistakes is that you know when to cringe.


    3 members found this post helpful.

  12. #32
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    Aug. 17, 2004
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    Rixeyville, VA
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    My two cents is that she didn't have health insurance and now has this rather large bill, as well as time off from work. If this had happened while on the job, it would have been a worker's comp claim, except I am going to bet her employer dad probably didn't carry worker's comp.

    I'm sad to see this case, but I agree with the court's decision.
    Where Norwegian Fjords Rule
    http://www.ironwood-farm.com


    6 members found this post helpful.

  13. #33

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    Quote Originally Posted by mvp View Post
    But the complaining lawyer was right: This ruling means we should stand back and watch someone get trampled rather than help.

    THIS^.


    What a sad state of affairs our Nation has come too. Very sad indeed.

    I do not know any of the facts of this case. But I do know more & more one has to CAREFULLY consider whether to help or not in so many different & varied situations. Being a good samaritan now days can actually get you sued...
    Closest thing to a sauna around here would be tarping over a few cows, hold a bucket of water & light a match.


    3 members found this post helpful.

  14. #34
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    Oct. 26, 2010
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gestalt View Post
    If you are in a car accident, car is on fire and someone injures themselves saving your life, you aren't going to help them in return? Tough crowd.
    I was just thinking of the car accident where the driver was stuck inside the care and then the car began to burn. Someone (a friend, I'm thinking) ran over, pulled the female driver out of the car, but, injured her so she was partially paralyzed. Then the female driver sued for paralyzing her. I think the upshot was that people were saying that next time you see a burning car with occupant, just sit back and watch the show. Otherwise, you may get your socks sued off.

    As a big rig driver, most companies I drove for said when you see an accident, keep on driving. If you stop and try to render aid, you are putting everything you own and the company at risk. So, pretend you didn't see it and keep on going. I have friends and family who also drive big rigs, they've been told the same thing.

    Kind of scares me because my hubby is the type to not think about his safety and will jump into a dangerous situ to save someone. He's a former EMT, among other scary occupations and doesn't seem to have the self-preservation gene in him. Me?? I used to think of others first, but, in this society we live in now, I don't want to get involved. Yes, I know that's sad and sucky but I've worked hard for my things and don't want to lose them.
    GR24's Musing #19 - Save the tatas!!


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  15. #35
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    Jul. 21, 2006
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    South Carolina
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    So after reading the decision linked above, it appears the Court ruled that if a person deliberately places herself in close proximity to people working with horses; and one of those horses does something to injure her; her personal injury lawsuit is barred by the Ohio ELLA (unless some exception, like recklessness on the part of the handler, applies).

    What's wrong with that?


    4 members found this post helpful.

  16. #36
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    Oct. 9, 2007
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    Central NJ
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    Quote Originally Posted by pAin't_Misbehavin' View Post
    So after reading the decision linked above, it appears the Court ruled that if a person deliberately places herself in close proximity to people working with horses; and one of those horses does something to injure her; her personal injury lawsuit is barred by the Ohio ELLA (unless some exception, like recklessness on the part of the handler, applies).

    What's wrong with that?
    Agree!



  17. #37
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    Feb. 8, 2008
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    Delaware Valley
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ghazzu View Post
    More to the point, if you, of your own accord, without a request from the handler,attempt to handle a horse that you have already observed is not well-mannered, it isn't the handler's fault when you, too, get hurt.
    Agree, though that wasn't the legal principle that was applied in this case.

    Quote Originally Posted by mvp View Post
    But the complaining lawyer was right: This ruling means we should stand back and watch someone get trampled rather than help.
    Genuine acts of altruism don't take into account whether you are going to be compensated if something goes wrong. People have been known to risk their lives to help others, and what's $50,000 compared to a life?


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  18. #38
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    Mar. 27, 2009
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    Upstate NY
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Matson View Post
    If you are a specatator at a horse show, you might want to think twice before rushing in to help someone in trouble, according to this court case.

    http://www.sfgate.com/news/article/O...im-4096611.php

    Excerpt:

    COLUMBUS, Ohio (AP) — An Ohio woman severely injured when she went to the aid of a horse owner in danger of being trampled met the legal definition of a "spectator" at a horse-related event and thus cannot sue for damages, the Ohio Supreme Court ruled Thursday.

    What are you talking about - you think a spectator injured at a show SHOULD sue and win? Are you particularly sue-happy, Mike? Why are you concerned about this, Mike???
    Trainer's website - photos of my horse Airborne under About and Francesca Edwards also in media page 1

    http://www.patricianorciadressage.com/


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  19. #39
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    Oct. 9, 2012
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    Washington State
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    Quote Originally Posted by goneriding24 View Post
    I was just thinking of the car accident where the driver was stuck inside the care and then the car began to burn. Someone (a friend, I'm thinking) ran over, pulled the female driver out of the car, but, injured her so she was partially paralyzed. Then the female driver sued for paralyzing her. I think the upshot was that people were saying that next time you see a burning car with occupant, just sit back and watch the show. Otherwise, you may get your socks sued off.

    As a big rig driver, most companies I drove for said when you see an accident, keep on driving. If you stop and try to render aid, you are putting everything you own and the company at risk. So, pretend you didn't see it and keep on going. I have friends and family who also drive big rigs, they've been told the same thing.

    Kind of scares me because my hubby is the type to not think about his safety and will jump into a dangerous situ to save someone. He's a former EMT, among other scary occupations and doesn't seem to have the self-preservation gene in him. Me?? I used to think of others first, but, in this society we live in now, I don't want to get involved. Yes, I know that's sad and sucky but I've worked hard for my things and don't want to lose them.
    If you are talking about the accident years ago in California where this same thing happened, it wasn't too far from where we were living at the time. It really does make you think twice about being a good samaritan. Although if it had been me in the burning car I would rather be partially paralyzed than burn to death and would be grateful that my friend risked their own life to save mine.


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  20. #40
    Join Date
    Nov. 24, 2002
    Location
    Northern KY
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    4,461

    Default I'll weigh in..

    After having spent the better part of a couple of decades with STBs at county fair barns.


    Most employers do not carry WC or any other kind of health insurance. The USTA used to have some kind of insurance if you were a member, I have no idea if that is still true or not.

    Was the person right to help? If you work at the track, you've done or seen done the same thing hundreds of times, sometimes it works out fine and everyone walks away, sometimes you limp away, sometimes someone carries your a** outta there to the local ER. BTDT. You do it without thinking.

    Is her lawsuit stupid? Yes and here's why.

    The truck, trailer and horse she ended up getting kicked by probably weren't worth anything close to that all together, why she would think there was insurance or money on the backside of a little county fair track (this ain't Spring Garden Ranch people) is beyond me.

    Sorry she was hurt and had medical bills, but if you go around messing with things that are prone to lose their tiny little minds and are bigger than you, without any insurance or the ability to take care of yourself if something happens, well, at some point, you decided that's what you wanted to do, because heaven knows there are way safer jobs that pay waaaaay better than rubbing racehorses. You know that you are one kick or spook away from not having any income and having a mess of bills you have no way on God's green earth to pay. We all go into it knowing that, the person's father apparently is a trainer, so it isn't like she didn't know what the game is.

    She'd have been better off getting people to have one of those fundraisers of the week to help with her bills than getting a lawyer.


    I went over the grandstand rail in the stretch as Scioto Downs in a skirt to catch a loose horse with a broken hind leg, the race bike broke, hit her hind leg, dropped the driver and shattered the leg right above her ankle. I was the first one to grab her and I had at least 4 other people in dress clothes right behind me. We didn't even blink, just did what we needed to do and sat on the poor thing until the vet came out.

    You just do it.
    But you don't sue because you did.


    9 members found this post helpful.

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