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  1. #1
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    Dec. 9, 2004
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    Default Interesting Thoroughbred Pedigree

    For all of you who like to study TB pedigrees, I have one you should check out. I found it years ago in a sales catalog from Tattersalls. The mares name is Winloc's Millie. I can't wait to read the responses.



  2. #2
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    Dec. 27, 2006
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    Wow, talk about inbreeding.

    Here's a link since there wasn't one in the OP

    http://www.pedigreequery.com/winlocs+millie

    Christa



  3. #3
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    Too much Mr. P for me..
    Hickstead 1996-2011 Godspeed
    " Hickstead is simply the best and He lives forever in our hearts"
    Akasha 1992-2012 - I will always love you sweet girl.



  4. #4
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    Jul. 19, 2008
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    Quote Originally Posted by rocksolid View Post
    For all of you who like to study TB pedigrees, I have one you should check out. I found it years ago in a sales catalog from Tattersalls. The mares name is Winloc's Millie. I can't wait to read the responses.
    So, curiously, what do YOU find interesting about the pedigree?
    Gleann Oighrig LLC
    Showing, Sales, Breeding, and Boarding
    Manakin-Sabot, Virginia



  5. #5
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    I find it interesting that someone would breed a TB mare to her own sire. Around here people don't do that and since Mr Prospector isn't a herd stallion, it was a planned breeding. I don't know, it's interesting to me.



  6. #6
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    Aug. 14, 2000
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    Clarksdale, MS--the golden buckle on the cotton belt
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    Quote Originally Posted by rocksolid View Post
    I find it interesting that someone would breed a TB mare to her own sire. Around here people don't do that and since Mr Prospector isn't a herd stallion, it was a planned breeding. I don't know, it's interesting to me.

    The inbreeding isn't limited to Mr. P. Northern Dancer is by a Native Dancer daughter, and Native Dancer's grandsire is Unbreakable. So the only true stallion line that doesn't go back to Unbreakable in the whole pedigree is My Babu.

    I wonder if any of her produce bred on and who they used. If I wonder hard enough, I might just look it up
    "I'm a lumberjack, and I'm okay."
    Thread killer Extraordinaire



  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by vineyridge View Post
    The inbreeding isn't limited to Mr. P. Northern Dancer is by a Native Dancer daughter, and Native Dancer's grandsire is Unbreakable. So the only true stallion line that doesn't go back to Unbreakable in the whole pedigree is My Babu.

    I wonder if any of her produce bred on and who they used. If I wonder hard enough, I might just look it up

    Here you go: http://www.pedigreequery.com/progeny/winlocs+millie <--granted that is not the gold standard for looking it up but it give you something to play with.



  8. #8
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    8 winners from that mare. I think 100 percent winners. Unbelievable. It makes one wonder if there other consolidated Mr. P. bloodlines out there and if they did as well.



  9. #9
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    It does make for an interesting pedigree page. This is a link to a 2010 pedigree of one her daughters. The subject horse is the second dam. It is kind of strange to see the same sire for the 2nd and 3rd dams. It would make me do a double take if I was reading a catalogue page and would have to check further to see if it was a misprint. There have been a few very good stakes winners on a very similar cross. Contrary to popular belief close inbreeding does not result in a mutant. Humans or animals. Though you stand just as good a chance to double up on the “negative” genes as you do on the “good” ones. And Mr. P had soundness issues and tended to pass on his knees.

    http://www.newepisodetraining.com/Do...ail%20Mary.pdf



  10. #10
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    Oct. 29, 2000
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    Very interesting. Seth Hancock always was very protective of not over using Mr. P. in pedigrees. We got turned down twice. Once for a foal that would have resulted in a 2 x 4 to Mr. P, and another time for a 3 x 3 to him. [Later, he did allow such close inbreeding, but Winloc's Millie was a 1993 foal, so she was born during Mr. P's primo years.]

    Especially considering that Our Millie was a failure on the racetrack (2 starts, 1 3rd, $2700). Weird that Seth would allow that mare to be bred to her own daddy.

    ETA: I had forgotten that we were trying to get a farm season which Seth had control over. WM's breeder very probably had a shareholder season.
    "I used to have money, now I have horses."



  11. #11
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    The breeder was going for a specific cross, I think, although Mr. Prospector isn't exactly the focus of the theory.

    You'll notice in the 4th position in the pedigree, on the bottom line is Pandora by Unbreakable and on the top side is Polynesian by Unbreakable [Polynesian being best known as the sire of Native Dancer.] He also gets to Native Dancer himself via a good daughter on the bottom (Natalma, dam of Northern Dancer) & via a good son (Raise A Native, Mr. Prospector's sire) on the top [and coincidentally, on the bottom].

    If you look at the pedigree of this mare's daughter, Winloc's Glory Days ($155,260 earnings, 19 starts, 3-4-4 record), you will see on the top side Northern Dancer through a son & on the bottom, Northern Dancer through a daughter. Winloc's Glory Days was bred by the same person who bred her dam, so it looks like he has a specific theory about getting to superior runners via sex-balanced breeding stock on opposite sides of the pedigree & within the 1st five generations (it is one of many TB breeding theories out there.)

    That he needed to breed that closely to Mr. Prospector in the 1st mare's case might actually be beside the point, in his mind - just a way to get to the daughters of Unbreakable, Native Dancer & Northern Dancer to complement those sire's sons on the other side of the pedigree.
    Hidden Echo Farm, Carlisle, PA -- home of JC palomino sire Canadian Kid (1990 - 2013) & AQHA sire Lark's Favorite, son of Rugged Lark.



  12. #12
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    Aug. 28, 2006
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    Quote Originally Posted by Renascence View Post
    8 winners from that mare. I think 100 percent winners. Unbelievable. It makes one wonder if there other consolidated Mr. P. bloodlines out there and if they did as well.
    They may have been winners but they didn't win much.

    I can't help but wonder if someone took a wrong turn with that mare out of the barn.


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