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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Nov. 14, 2012
    Posts
    92

    Default Farrier Issue or Bad Luck?

    My horse is only 4 and was only shod once by a different farrier before we switched barns/farriers, so there isn't much history to compare. I feel because of this my trainer is dismissing all these issues as coincidences or baby behavior, but these feel like red flags to me.
    My Red Flags
    1. Horse loses shoe in paddock about a week after shoeing
    Shoe comes off completely clean, no enlarged nail holes/no
    rips or tears, no lameness
    2. Farrier comes out and 3 horses (mine included) in the barn
    come up with abscesses. Vet & BO & trainer all say it's just
    the weather changing and the farrier revealed abscess but
    didn't cause them
    3. Horse loses shoe outside again days after shoeing, same way
    as before: no rips/tears but this time just a little heat. We
    have the vet look at her a second time

    At this point, I say screw it. Let's leave her barefoot until we're jumping again. So, the farrier pulls the other shoe off. She had heat in the one she pulled in the paddock, but no lameness. The hoof the farrier pulls the shoe from is lame and we need to magna paste pack it and wrap it for 3 days before I can ride again.

    Then the kicker is I get the bill. He's charging $75 for a trim behind and another $75 for shoes up front (that she never keeps for long). I'm used to paying $130-150 for a full set, so how is a rasp and trim $75?

    Does this sound expensive and suspicious to any one else?



  2. #2
    Join Date
    May. 17, 2000
    Location
    Where am I and what am I doing in this handbasket?
    Posts
    23,686

    Default

    it could be coincidence. If the farrier is using a higher nail and setting the shoe back so a bit of the shoe's heel is exposed (both things I consider Job #1 for a good farrier working on my horses) the downside of that is it is a bit easier for them to step on that heel and the upside of a high nail is it usually results in a cleanly pulled shoe with little damage to the wall.

    As for the lame part/pulling shoes/heat - that can happen when you first take off shoes, especially if it is soon after the initial trim/shoeing.

    Or it could be a red flag. As usual, it depends on a lot of things that depend more on being there and having experience...
    Definition of "Horse": a 4 legged mammal looking for an inconvenient place and expensive way to die. Any day they choose not to execute the Master Plan is just more time to perfect it. Be Very Afraid.


    2 members found this post helpful.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Nov. 14, 2012
    Posts
    92

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by DMK View Post
    it could be coincidence. If the farrier is using a higher nail and setting the shoe back so a bit of the shoe's heel is exposed (both things I consider Job #1 for a good farrier working on my horses)
    Her shoes were not set with any overhang and I noticed the nails were set lower than I have usually seen



  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jun. 20, 2008
    Posts
    6,020

    Default

    I'd pay the farrier the full amount as it does sound like he came back out to check feet/shoes. It's interesting that several of the horses are lame; but depending on the weather - dry dry then really wet or visa versa can wreak havoc on a feet/hooves so that could be a factor; could be a hot nail too.

    If this is a farrier that the trainer has been using for awhile without incident then I'll chalk it up to dumb/bad luck... if it's a new farrier to barn then I might proceed w/ a bit of caution



  5. #5
    Join Date
    Nov. 14, 2012
    Posts
    92

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by gottagrey View Post
    I'd pay the farrier the full amount as it does sound like he came back out to check feet/shoes.
    If this is a farrier that the trainer has been using for awhile without incident then I'll chalk it up to dumb/bad luck... if it's a new farrier to barn then I might proceed w/ a bit of caution
    He didn't come to check her feet, the vet did. Losing two shoes and an abscess took place over the month of December only. The $150 was charged to put two shoes on after the abscess, which were lost/removed shortly after, and for rasp/trim of hind feet.



  6. #6

    Default

    First the price sounds very high to me. I had a whole lot more done to my horse with 4 shoes and only paid $175. This was with wedge pads and egg bar shoes.

    Are you able to bring in your own farrier? The shoes should stay on longer than one week. My horse kept loosing shoes every week and I just told my farrier we had to do something else (granted I've known him since I was a little kid)

    The farrier probably didn't cause the abcesses because they do take a while to form but the shoes should stay on longer. The heat is normal when you pull shoes and it does take them a little while to adjust to being barefoot.



  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jan. 17, 2001
    Location
    California
    Posts
    329

    Default

    Is this a new horse to you? Some horses do a lovely job of pulling their own hind shoes off cleanly (like mine) unless they have clips. My horse is now going barefoot behind for the winter, and possibly forever if he can handle it, b/c it was time to take the clips off to allow the foot to grow better, and he immediately pulled his own shoes off with antics in the paddock. It's abscess season here in CA, so I wouldn't really attribute that to the shoer. Shoers out here are $250 and up for full shoes (my farrier is actually less expensive than some, and was 245 for full shoes with wedges and specially made shoes in front). Barefoot trim all around is probably 140. If a horse loses a shoe in the first week, I'd say that shoer should come back for free to stick it back on. If later than that, most shoers charge $30-40 to put it back on around here.

    Hope this helps.



  8. #8
    Join Date
    Oct. 4, 2008
    Posts
    745

    Default

    Your area is not posted, so I don't know if your farrier's rates are competitive or not. But, they are a bit higher than what we pay for well appoointed service.

    Additionally, one abcess doesn't alarm me much. If you have a recurrent problem, your vet can advise you on a plan.

    At our barn, if your horse is a shoe pull risk it goes out in bell boots. PERIOD.

    Also, ours don't see the fields in inclement weather. we are in the great lakes snow belt, and our farm doesn't drain well. Horses are regulated to small paddoccks or indoor turn-out for about four months.

    We switched farriers about a year & 1/2 ago, and have lost about 2 shoes outside since. Prior, it was a common occurence, with roughly the same herd.



  9. #9
    Join Date
    Sep. 27, 2000
    Location
    Southern California - on a freeway someplace
    Posts
    10,168

    Default

    When Star first had shoes at age three (mercifully only in front) he didn't make it through an entire shoeing without pulling one. On one particularly momentous occasion, the shoer came out to replace a pulled shoe, I turned him out before I rode him and he had, you guessed it, pulled the dang shoe. With bell boots on. This was just as the shoer was pulling out of the driveway. I ran after him waving the shoe, to no avail.

    Most of the time it didn't happen on my watch so I'm not sure about the bell boots being on. Their selection of them wasn't great. I finally resorted to pull-on ones that I left on 24/7. I don't think they loved this, but it was a dressage barn and they didn't know how to remove them.
    The Evil Chem Prof



  10. #10
    Join Date
    Nov. 14, 2012
    Posts
    92

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by mrsbradbury View Post
    Your area is not posted, so I don't know if your farrier's rates are competitive or not.

    At our barn, if your horse is a shoe pull risk it goes out in bell boots. PERIOD.

    Also, ours don't see the fields in inclement weather. we are in the great lakes snow belt, and our farm doesn't drain well. Horses are regulated to small paddoccks or indoor turn-out for about four months.
    I am in Illinois and was previously paying $130 for full set and am now being charged $150 for 2 shoes and hind trim. She is only turned out in small paddock, no grass. I suggested bell boots and got no response. I'm going to buy some and put them on her stall. Losing two shoes in one month just seems suspicious to me, but apparently I am the only one in my barn with these concerns.



  11. #11
    Join Date
    Apr. 2, 2011
    Location
    Westchester, NY
    Posts
    2,634

    Default

    How many horses are at your barn? 3/5 going lame is very different than 3/30. Nothing you said, even combined, seem like an immediate finger to a bad farrier. However it doesn't hurt to keep your eyes open. If one horse gets an abcess who isn't prone it could be environmental in which case it makes sense others would get them too.

    Is your horse the only pulling shoes that quickly? Some horses are just more prone to it than others, either because of their feet or their activity level in turn out. My guy has awesome feet and likes to just stand and eat and not move yet still he somehow gets one off every now and then.


    1 members found this post helpful.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Nov. 14, 2012
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    92

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Peggy View Post
    When Star first had shoes at age three (mercifully only in front) he didn't make it through an entire shoeing without pulling one.
    This makes me feel a little better that it might be attributed to her age. I don't want this to be a farrier issue because I don't want my horse or another to have a more serious issue than what I've faced in the near future. However, I'm thinking the price is a little much for what I am getting. I'm in the process of rehabbing this horse. So needing to take 3 breaks in the first month of riding because of feet issues has been very frustrating!



  13. #13
    Join Date
    Nov. 14, 2012
    Posts
    92

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Rel6 View Post
    How many horses are at your barn? 3/5 going lame is very different than 3/30.

    Nothing you said, even combined, seem like an immediate finger to a bad farrier.

    Is your horse the only pulling shoes that quickly? Some horses are just more prone to it than others, either because of their feet or their activity level in turn out.

    There are approx. 15 horses at the barn. So 3 going off was kind of a high percentage.

    I'm glad you say this doesn't seem to be a farrier issue and to keep an eye out.

    She doesn't do much outside besides mostly walk around looking for food. She'll play occasionally when other horses start running



  14. #14
    Join Date
    Jan. 18, 2002
    Location
    canada
    Posts
    398

    Default

    Sometimes horses that have no back shoes tend to slip in the back end a lot,and pull shoes easily. I don't see any red flags here at all. Abscesses can happen for all sorts of reason. Your horse is young and unbalanced, they tend to have hard time controlling those legs of theirs.
    As far as the cost is concerned. Without knowing where you are located , you might find instead of a travelling fee the farrier just adds money to the trims.
    We pay around 140.00. Even though its listed as a reset front, trim back, it still comes out around the same. I dont think he is over priced at all.
    www.tayvalleyfarm.com
    My other home.



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