[omare]

Your routine sounds like the routine of many small breeders --sounds like you are ready to join the insanity and breed your own. :-)

[Neighland]

At the poster above me.

She has a mare who produces a fantastic hunter every.single.year.

Thanks EqTrainer!!! She's been a stellar mare and expect the same from her daughter!!

I too am like others and my goal is to sell in utero and or as a weanling... My thought on pricing as well is I don't change much from a yearling to a two year old, the price increase will come after they are started most likely as a three year old!!

[sixpoundfarm]

Have pity on us poor, regular working folks, who slave 9-5 at our jobs, then come home and have to muck stalls, feed horses, mow pastures and only get to ride on the weekends. We have limited time and $, but yearn to have that one, special "dreamhorse"

Boy, do I ever resemble this remark, except I am the breeder, not the buyer.

My Husband & I are the caretakers at home, and we work very hard at home and at the workplace to pay for our breeding business. We do many of the same chores you list, in addition to feeding high quality feed and hay, regular regular farrier & vet attention. All our young horses are handled daily and fed individually. We could certainly find ways to cut corners to lower our costs, but I do not count all that into foal/young horse prices.

We do all of this is in order to produce high quality foals, for what often is a slim (if any) profit. I am sure my Husband & I are not the only breeders on this board with 'real' jobs to pay for the horses.

I expect to pay a reasonable price for a quality animal, whether its a mare, foal, young horse or stud fee. And I try very hard to fairly price my youngstock based on their quality, not what I have into them. A horse is only worth what someone will pay for it; however, I dont think 15K for a very good quality baby/young horse is too much.

[ahf]

Boy, do I ever resemble this remark, except I am the breeder, not the buyer.

We work very hard at home and at the workplace, in order to produce high quality foals, for what often is a slim (if any) profit. I am sure my Husband & I are not the only breeders on this board with 'real' jobs to pay for the horses.

I expect to pay a reasonable price for a quality animal, whether is be a mare, foal, young horse or stud fee. And I try very hard to fairly price my youngstock based on their quality, not what I have into them. A horse is only worth what someone will pay for it; however, I dont think 15K for a very good quality baby/young horse is too much.

Thank you Tracy. I've been trying to find the words to respond to the above quote for quite some time this morning. Thank you for framing a kind response that is very appropriate.

[3Dogs]

Thank you Tracy. I've been trying to find the words to respond to the above quote for quite some time this morning. Thank you for framing a kind response that is very appropriate.

Agree with Tracy and AHF - the only addition as a breeder? I try to be realistic that not every foal is GREAT or as was the case of one that I bought in utero and took to 4, not going to develop quickly - big warmblood still growing and maturing at 4! - thus I priced to sell (and he has a FANTASTIC home) because carrying the monthly cost, sinking more dollars into training, showing, etc - the financial risk of making "more" not worth it. And horses? Could suffer injury on any given day
But if one does get a super baby - then price accordingly

Good luck OP - there are nice nice NA breds out there - but it IS challenging given the size of the country!

[Sakura Hill Farm]

Boy, do I ever resemble this remark, except I am the breeder, not the buyer.

We work very hard at home and at the workplace, in order to produce high quality foals, for what often is a slim (if any) profit. I am sure my Husband & I are not the only breeders on this board with 'real' jobs to pay for the horses.

I expect to pay a reasonable price for a quality animal, whether is be a mare, foal, young horse or stud fee. And I try very hard to fairly price my youngstock based on their quality, not what I have into them. A horse is only worth what someone will pay for it; however, I dont think 15K for a very good quality baby/young horse is too much.

Thank you, Tracy! As we were warned before becoming breeders, it is not for the faint of heart, from the emotional, financial or physical standpoints! Our tax accountant this year shared with us that she had made some inquiries among her colleagues (probably after throwing up her hands in despair over our numbers) when it comes to making a profitable business out of breeding.

[Signature]

We resemble that remark also! My biz partner and I both work full time 9-5 jobs as well as having 5-6 foals a year and also doing investment horses. So we can completely sympathize as well. The profit is definitely very slim. Tracy is right - the bottom line is that they are only worth what someone will pay; there is no "blue book" one can consult to determine a "fair" price... We tend to price ours very conservatively so that they can move on more quickly to good homes. The longer we have them, the less the chance of any small profit and the increased chance for freak injury, etc.

We also are buyers at times so we can also feel for the buyer's side as well. We simply try to be very flexible and reasonable to consider both sides as well as the horse's best interest and it has so far worked out well.

[EllenAspen]

Thank you, Tracy! As we were warned before becoming breeders, it is not for the faint of heart, from the emotional, financial or physical standpoints! Our tax accountant this year shared with us that she had made some inquiries among her colleagues (probably after throwing up her hands in despair over our numbers) and the general consensus is that horse breeders are all benighted when to comes to making a profitable business out of breeding.

We resemble this remark as well...but, we love it...don't we?

[ahf]

Our tax accountant this year shared with us that she had made some inquiries among her colleagues (probably after throwing up her hands in despair over our numbers) and the general consensus is that horse breeders are all benighted when to comes to trying to make a profitable business out of breeding.

My accountant just begins to twitch and huddle in the corner whenever I cross the threshold to his office. Since we've been audited twice I guess I can't blame him.

[tveley]

Have pity on us poor, regular working folks, who slave 9-5 at our jobs, then come home and have to muck stalls, feed horses, mow pastures and only get to ride on the weekends. We have limited time and $, but yearn to have that one, special "dreamhorse"

So why is it that people think because some of us breeders have some really nice horses that we are not also "regular working folks" as well? We do not have unlimited funds either and live on a budget. We worked hard, saved our money and FINALLY got to the point after many years where we could afford to invest in some excellent mares and start breeding to some super horses. I did not see the point in breeding for less than the best if I was going to do it as a business.

We still work at our "other jobs" (I sell airplane parts and my husband is a pilot) so we can come home and spend time and work with the horses. We mow the fields, fix fences, repair water pipes, groom horses, train horses and I even still clean stalls sometimes as well. I now have staff that do most of the cleaning and work with the horses full time, but I did not always have staff and I still have to work elsewhere to earn the money to pay them! I do not not have much time left to just ride for the sake of riding! I would have LOVED to have been able to afford to own a horse like I breed now, back when I was much younger and actively showing!!

We do not breed huge numbers of foals each year. In 2009, 2010 and 2011 we only had 2 foals born on the farm each year. In 2012 we only had 1 foal. We attempted to breed 4 mares in 2009, and 5 mares in 2010 using over 10 doses of very expensive frozen semen each season for the multiple failed breeding attempts, not to mention the vet bills, to get the 2 foals.

After the disasters of the breeding seasons in 2009, and 2010, to ultimately save money, I invested more into the breeding business. In December 2010, I took a course to learn to do A/I and ultrasounds, and bought a really nice ultrasound machine. In early 2011, I was not quite comfortable yet with my ability to be doing my own breeding at first, so I still had the vet coming to do it for me for the majority of the breeding season.

What a mistake! 2011 was the worst disaster of a breeding season (15 doses of semen used attempting to breed 6 mares, with $8K per month in vet bills) with NO pregnancies! In April, my vet suddenly told me he had decided it was a good time to switch over to be a small animal vet and would no longer be treating horses. I still do not even want to think about what that year cost me!

I was ready to open a vein at that point, I had huge bills, no vet and I was thinking I would have NO foals in 2012. Things did get better, though. I found a great new repro vet in late April/early May. The new vet looked over the records I requested from the former vet. He was not happy with what he saw. He cultured my mares and discovered they still had some previously diagnosed, but for some unknown reason untreated uterine infections. I was never told of the results of the cultures the former vet had done at my request. I assumed because he said nothing about any infections and he continued to breed the mares, the results must have been negative. In the notes in the records, the remarks were "no treatment indicated". SERIOUSLY??? We treated the infections and got the mares clean by the end of June. I hated to breed so late in the season, but I did not want to have a year with no foals, so in mid July I finally bred only one mare myself that year, resulting in our only foal born in 2012. Seeing that black dot on my screen made my year!!

In early 2012, I began doing all my own ultrasounds and inseminations which helped tremendously. My vets bills were much less (the savings in one month more than paid for the course and the machine) and I was very successful, 100+% (several sets of twins) pregnancy rate with my mares on the first dose of semen. Things will be much busier here, since we expect 6 foals (I bred 8 mares, but 2 mares lost the pregnancies before 60 days).

Life as a breeder is definitely not for the faint of heart. We EARN our money. Because of this we cannot afford to lose money or just break even when we sell a horse. It is something we must love to do, but it is still a business for us and the IRS says we must show a profit occasionally. In this tough market and with the rising costs of feed, fuel, insurance, labor, etc., there is unfortunately no way we can cut our prices to accommodate your dream at the expense of our business. Please think about that when you think a 2+ y/o top bred filly with extensive ground work or already started under saddle priced at $20-25K is too expensive. Our bills must be paid every month. The sale of a horse we have worked so long and hard to produce is a one time deal.

[Neighland]

So well said Tracy, I'm in the same boat!! I work full time for my family's business and am the only person in the barn 98% of the time......Thankfully during foaling season I can work from home while waiting the new arrivals... This is the main reason I cannot do any more than 2-3 mares a year.....I want to be able to give individual attention to the foals and have them well rounded and handled when they go to their new owners!!

[PremiumWarmbloods]

I'm joining the thread a little late but wanted to chime in..

It's unfortunate to hear that you are having such a hard time finding a high quality youngster for a decent price as I know there are many breeders out there with well bred youngstock that price them fairly. Unfortunately there are also breeders out there that IMO have youngsters outrageously priced - to each their own. Maybe they will sell at that price and maybe not.. Or perhaps they aren't in a rush to part with that particular horse so do not want to negotiate on price.

I try my best in all possible ways to negotiate a fair price and terms with a seller by offering payment plans, discounts etc.

Like many I have to work a 9-5 job to be able to support my breeding business. At the end of the day I would be happy to break even

[Edgewood]

So well said Tracy, I'm in the same boat!! I work full time for my family's business and am the only person in the barn 98% of the time......Thankfully during foaling season I can work from home while waiting the new arrivals... This is the main reason I cannot do any more than 2-3 mares a year.....I want to be able to give individual attention to the foals and have them well rounded and handled when they go to their new owners!!

Yes, I resemble this remark quite a bit too. I do 99% of the work myself, after working a full time job. I produce quality horses, but only a few of them per year. And some years, I produce none.

[ahf]

Yes, I resemble this remark quite a bit too. I do 99% of the work myself, after working a full time job. I produce quality horses, but only a few of them per year. And some years, I produce none.

You and Jeannette were the very first people I thought of when considering this.

[TrakHack]

With very specific wants and when dealing with very nice things, a buyer is likely going to need to wait a while. Not just for horses, for everything.

If I were the OP, and I wanted a yearling/two year old, I would work with a breeder whose stock I have studied and like to create a "custom" foal. To get the yearling/two year old you want you are very likely going to need to own this horse from when it is a foal. Yes, there is risk involved in owning a foal and carrying its expenses before its of riding age, but breeders carry that same risk, too.

You probably aren't going to be able to go out and buy your dream horse *right now* because someone else recognized it as their dream horse and bought it already.

To the breeders offering the option to board the foal until it is ready to be started under saddle, THANK YOU. This is the only way I could ever buy a youngster, and it makes so much sense.

Off to convince myself my two oldsters meet all my equine needs...

[DLee]

OP, that's one of the reasons I've bred my own. I bought a very nice TB off the track, she has had three babies for me now (every other year), and she's done. One I will sell, the other two are for me.
I've thoroughly enjoyed the whole process (and I have been LUCKY), but I now have horses through some cash and a lot of sweat equity that I would have never purchased otherwise.
No, it's not for everyone, and nightmares do happen, but that is my story.

[crestline]

Nice discussion and some great ideas....we're tucked way up here in WA state....we are also part of the "working horse-poor" (bahahaha). We have some top prospects but not everyone frequents WA State to buy their next horse, lol! I know we have some nice ones that get totally overlooked....even with full siblings as approved stallions and Intl Derby horses...After Painted CF's nice showing at the stallion testing though I do have someone seriously interested in his yearling full sister so I'm happy about that...As we have more and more of our stallion's offspring in the Derby rings I hope we'll see more people willing to make that trek to the northwest....

[Equine Reproduction]

My accountant just begins to twitch and huddle in the corner whenever I cross the threshold to his office. Since we've been audited twice I guess I can't blame him.

You can afford an accountant???!!!

[fish]

You can afford an accountant???!!!

And you can afford not to have one???
(Hint: I'm being audited= accountant+lawyer)

[3Dogs]

My accountant just begins to twitch and huddle in the corner whenever I cross the threshold to his office. Since we've been audited twice I guess I can't blame him.

Audited 3 times lol