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  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by amm2cd View Post
    I'd have to disagree... A horse who is more naturally predisposed for the sport has more natural talent. An less athletically talented horse may have loads of try, but That doesn't make him more talented.

    And my question for the OP was more along the lines of what is she looking for? That less than 7-mover's do well in the sand box? or for examples of 'correct' movement without the added distraction of 8+ movement?
    Who cares why the OP asked? All she asked for was the videos, not an analysis of her possible motivations.

    So, if you have a video of whatever subtype, send it over.


    3 members found this post helpful.

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by meupatdoes View Post
    Jesus, what is so hard about this concept.
    ...
    I am also sure as mcschizzle not going to stop trying to train everything I ride to *its* personal best just because someone else is like, "Well, that wouldn't get a 7 so it doesn't count and please don't go off thinking your achievements with that type horse are worth anything whatsoever. Sniff sniff, you lost some engagement there didn't you."
    Love your posts Meutpat - oh and can we get some "mcschizzle" in France?? We need some


    1 members found this post helpful.

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by meupatdoes View Post
    Who cares why the OP asked? All she asked for was the videos, not an analysis of her possible motivations.

    So, if you have a video of whatever subtype, send it over.
    I'm not analyzing anything. There are some great examples of horses with poor natural gaits getting through tests, then there are examples of horses with ok basic gaits performing movements (look into the USDF Tests dvd that was released a few years ago by Foy, I believe? The ride-a-test with Scott Hassler likely had too talented of horses)


    Never fear, I have been dually chastised and shall never express interest in another poster's train of thought.



  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by amm2cd View Post
    I'm not analyzing anything. There are some great examples of horses with poor natural gaits getting through tests, then there are examples of horses with ok basic gaits performing movements (look into the USDF Tests dvd that was released a few years ago by Foy, I believe? The ride-a-test with Scott Hassler likely had too talented of horses)


    Never fear, I have been dually chastised and shall never express interest in another poster's train of thought.
    Perhaps if you provided the actual links to these videos we could all watch.

    I just never understand the response, "Well, here's every answer EXCEPT what you specifically asked for."


    1 members found this post helpful.

  5. #25
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    Unfortunately I purchased the actual DVDs, so to provide links would be copyright infringement, which I am uncomfortable with.

    However, should you be interested, a copy is availible here for purchase.



  6. #26
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    Having watched a lot of very very fancy movers and prospects from ringside in Southern California, it has seemed to me that the most flashy movers at say 2nd level often do not make it to the top FEI levels, that for whatever reason that flash either impedes them when they try to do the more difficult work or perhaps it's that it deludes riders and trainers into thinking they are more ready than they are for the harder work.

    The horses that make it seem to be horses that start out as fluid but not especially spectacular movers.
    If you are allergic to a thing, it is best not to put that thing in your mouth, particularly if the thing is cats. - Lemony Snicket


    2 members found this post helpful.

  7. #27
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    Jul. 17, 2006
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    Harry Callahan, registered American Saddlebred. Average mover, some conformation issues.

    Confirmed GP with scores in the 60's by a pro - then sold to an ammie to do PSG and Intermediare because he was just so darn ammie-friendly and easy to ride.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3xnBo8ybJpQ


    1 members found this post helpful.

  8. #28
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    One of the most famous $3500 police horses come international winner: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yDipLXeJ7dA

    Certainly not all horses can be 'competitive' in today's world, but most any sound horse with a focused rider can learn to collect to gp movements (look at Phillipe Karls students on some real strangely conformed horses).

    Most every top rider I know learned to TRAIN plain brown wrappers!!!
    I.D.E.A. yoda


    4 members found this post helpful.

  9. #29
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    Jul. 29, 2001
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    Well, I'm sure nobody would call this guy "average" lol! But one of my favorite tests to watch is the amazingly cool ArdCeltic Art doing 4th here with Melissa Ransehousen! :-)

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kmeYIklNg44
    The ninja monkeys are plotting my demise as we speak....


    2 members found this post helpful.

  10. #30
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    I think the op is asking for off breeds more than anything. Like I posted a qh, or appy showing at upper levels. She also said above 2nd level which is not exactly FEI here. I don't understand what the fuss is about?
    Horses aren't our whole life, but makes our life whole


    4 members found this post helpful.

  11. #31
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    Some hores cannot handle the work load no matter the breed. Plenty of broodmares made out of Totilas lines to be sure

    Obviously if you want gaits that wont quit you know where to look. Dressage breeders

    But:

    If you are like me you ride what you have! And you like knowing others are riding what they HAVE TO TOO! lol

    Ive watched a mutt kick the snot out of purpose bred horses and Ive been on a mutt and won in good company myself.

    Nothing wrong with a little rah rah for the under dog!
    ~~Member of the TB's Rule Clique ~~
    http://www.off-breed-dressage.blogspot.com/


    3 members found this post helpful.

  12. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by rabicon View Post
    I think the op is asking for off breeds more than anything.
    Sorry, but why would you assume that? I didn't get that impression from the OP at all. I can think of plenty of warmbloods that lack stunning paces or breathtaking conformation, and I also know of quite a few non-WBs who DO possess those traits.

    ...I don't want to go too off-topic but I just can't understand the increasing self-segregation by people who ride non-WBs in dressage. This term "off-breed" is horribly counterproductive IMO. "Average mover" is much better.
    Proud COTH lurker since 2001.


    2 members found this post helpful.

  13. #33
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    I don't think it's self-segregation however. Maybe we're a bit defensive, but it is a reaction, not an action. I agree that "off-breed" is counterproductive.

    Paula
    He is total garbage! Quick! Hide him on my trailer (Petstorejunkie).


    1 members found this post helpful.

  14. #34
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    I know that's the common feeling Paula, but I have to disagree. I chose my words carefully because I really believe them to be true. Average movers may be more common among the non-warmbloods that appear in the show ring, and that naturally results in lower scores if all else is equal. But that doesn't mean that the majority of judges don't make every effort to score all breeds equally. I'm basing this on 25+ years of scribing and judging in the US and UK.

    ETA: I do agree that there are vocal elitists out there who look down upon average movers/averagely bred horses, and this probably does spur many folks to rebel. It's a shame, as that's not a majority opinion IME. Personally I choose to potter around quite successfully on my Arabs and Morgans and TBs, and I'll never consent to them being called "off-" anything!
    Proud COTH lurker since 2001.


    2 members found this post helpful.

  15. #35
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    I've heard Jeremy refer to this as a downhill and untalented horse. I believe they made it to GP, but centerlinescores and my computer hate each other so I can't look back to verify. He uses this horse as an example why a rider shouldn't give up and stick to second when they are likely to be able to advance and improve the horse's gaits as they go, rather than just stop trying.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FkODB...0&feature=plcp

    What I find amazing are the changed horses - who had average gaits and improved a LOT over time. The Arabian video was a good example, though I would suggest that mare had gaits which gave you a lot of hints she would have talent, too. Once my horse and I are fit again (I've been injured about 6 months so he has lost his strength we worked on for 2 years), I may have to do a comparison video. We aren't upper level, yet in a 3 week period the work we had done "clicked" and raised his gaits scores 2 points at shows. The work greatly increased his cadence and suspension, and I suspect most correctly ridden "average" movers will show the same type of change, as I am learning as we go and no stellar well-educated pro.
    My horse is a dressage diva so I don't have to be.

    Quote Originally Posted by katarine
    If you have a fat gay horse that likes Parelli, you're really screwed


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  16. #36
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    Oh hey -- I scribed that test! Nice!

    Quote Originally Posted by BaroquePony View Post
    Here's one that I love. He certainly has 'good bone'.


    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nOEYH02HfuM
    Nanakorobi yaoki: Seven times fall, eight times rise.
    http://reveilleandrinsie.blogspot.com



  17. #37
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    Default Average?

    I don't think ANY horse is "average" if it works in the upper levels. It's about more than size and movement


    1 members found this post helpful.

  18. #38
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    fwiw, my trainer always says that what is needed more than anything to get to the upper levels is a horse that is willing to work hard. not fancy gaits. not fancy brands. work ethic.

    OP go look up Seldom Seen. There was a pony for gods sake - who was average and who competed at the highest levels.


    1 members found this post helpful.

  19. #39
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    Hawkesbury came from Canada doing GP, I had a student who looked at him. A very willing horse as well.

    There was Seldom Seen/Last Scene/etc.
    I.D.E.A. yoda



  20. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by DianneEJ View Post
    I don't think ANY horse is "average" if it works in the upper levels. It's about more than size and movement
    I clearly agree. I don't care if you're riding an appaloosa/draft/STB/QH/TB mule, if you can lay down an FEI test you're not riding an average animal. That equine is goddamn special.

    To the OP: The USDF (usef?) On the Levels DVDs are not available on YouTube but are quite good for illustrating the proper movements. Starwars TOF is a Haflinger doing GP (I think) and that's friggin adorable, no matter which way you slice it. If you're looking for unconventional warmblood, this is Lauren Spreiser and her DHH Victorious. I think people tend to like this horse's story as well. He's a piaffe master.



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