[KurPlexed]

Do any of you have any videos to share of average movers, average built horses doing "good" work above 2nd level?

Not looking for the fancy uphill horses with the flashy gaits. I'm just interested in the common horse doing nice work. Thanks!

[rabicon]

http://m.youtube.com/index?&desktop_...?v=s5r7Cz4N-f0
http://m.youtube.com/index?&desktop_...?v=ejF1LbC-o4c

http://m.youtube.com/index?&desktop_...?v=jbIQTovyt_w
http://m.youtube.com/index?&desktop_...?v=2f33oV-J7P8

[cnm161]

Honestly? It takes an above-average horse to do the FEI, and I'm not talking about flamboyant gaits. They've got to have the mind and work ethic to enjoy the work and not all horses have that-- not even the fancy ones.

[Eclectic Horseman]

You mean like this?

http://www.quarterlinedressage.com/Audacity.php

[meupatdoes]

A judge apparently once told this pair "horse not suitable for dressage."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6kQEVE0A3GA

[paulaedwina]

A judge apparently once told this pair "horse not suitable for dressage."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6kQEVE0A3GA

Amazing! I wonder if that judge has seen the after?

Paula

[Gestalt]

http://m.youtube.com/index?&desktop_...?v=s5r7Cz4N-f0
http://m.youtube.com/index?&desktop_...?v=ejF1LbC-o4c

http://m.youtube.com/index?&desktop_...?v=jbIQTovyt_w
http://m.youtube.com/index?&desktop_...?v=2f33oV-J7P8

Wow, I love the Appy in the first vid, and what a quiet and effective rider. Quite a pair!

[BaroquePony]

Here's one that I love. He certainly has 'good bone'.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nOEYH02HfuM

[Lady Eboshi]

Every horse is "suitable for dressage." Meaning, every horse can be trained to use his body correctly and harmoniously under saddle, calm, forward, straight and on the aids. Every horse's gaits can be developed to the limits of what Nature has given him to work with; and, yes, most horses can attain some if not all of the movements we classify now as "FEI." These movements are natural, after all.

If judges were judging correctly, as Dr. Max Gahwyler told me in the early 90's, they would be judging how the horse is using himself based on what his conformation says he should be able to do. Unfortunately, that requires an "eye" honed over a lifetime of riding, training and observation as well as intimate knowledge of conformation, movement, equine physiology and psychology. I've just described probably a handful of all the judges roaming the Earth!

A so-called "trainer" once got on my QH who did not tolerate rough riding. He grabbed a big handful of reins and crammed his nose in by sheer force, then slammed his "driving" seat into the horse's back. And promptly got what he asked for--an express ride straight up and over backwards! Dusting himself off, he opined in his heavy accent that "This horse is suitable only for meat!"

Trying not to snicker, I said "He never does that with me, but then I don't ride him like a butcher!" That horse, like the wonderful Arab in the video, went on to do very nice upper-level work indeed.

Success in dressage is a matter of human self-discipline and consistent application of truly correct principles day in and day out for years. You get there.

Can every horse be competitive with those bred specifically for that purpose? Different question. Answer is No, but then that is not everyone's ambition.

[Lady Eboshi]

While I won't call these horses "ordinary," they've got my vote for Coolest of the Day--and I think the rider's mustache qualifies him a Best Turned Out!

Note stylistic similarities to School of Versailles . . .

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NDJPDfwidVc

[belgianWBLuver]

Honestly? It takes an above-average horse to do the FEI, and I'm not talking about flamboyant gaits. They've got to have the mind and work ethic to enjoy the work and not all horses have that-- not even the fancy ones.

Agree!!! Once a horse can perform well in FEI - he has crossed over to the way above average - in my book.

[cnm161]

This isn't going to be popular.

However, a horse that can do some of the movements of the FEI tests isn't an FEI horse. An FEI horse can transition from canter pirouette to halfpass to tempi changes (and so on) and not lose engagement. That's rare, no matter what breed you find it in.

I'm with bWBL: an FEI horse isn't an "average" horse regardless of suspension or color or breed or whatever.

[amm2cd]

Agree!!! Once a horse can perform well in FEI - he has crossed over to the way above average - in my book.

Totally agree with BelgianWBLuver and CNM161... and FEI horse is not average; otherwise all of us would be riding/showing at the FEI levels, right?

But the OP asked about second level and up, so there is a little wiggle room since everyone (horse) should be able to do second level.

Just out of curiosity, OP, why are you looking for videos of less talented horses?

[Eclectic Horseman]

It is definitely true that an FEI horse is NOT an average HORSE. But I think that what the OP is looking for is just an average MOVER with conformation not ideal for dressage. At least that's what is sounds like from reading her original post. And there are in fact plenty of average movers with less than ideal conformation doing competent FEI work.

[Eclectic Horseman]

Just out of curiosity, OP, why are you looking for videos of less talented horses?

I don't think that the OP is looking for videos of less talented horses. She is looking for videos of average movers with less than ideal conformation who are competent above 2nd level. In my view, those horses are MORE talented than a horse with fancy movement and perfect conformation for dressage. It doesn't come so easy for that horse.

Defining talent as "trainability."

[netg]

I would check for some of Lauren Sprieser's videos. Her gelding Tres was just torn apart by L candidates, yet does GP. http://chronofhorse.com/article/pret...-day-l-program

http://m.youtube.com/index?&desktop_...?v=s5r7Cz4N-f0
http://m.youtube.com/index?&desktop_...?v=ejF1LbC-o4c

http://m.youtube.com/index?&desktop_...?v=jbIQTovyt_w
http://m.youtube.com/index?&desktop_...?v=2f33oV-J7P8

None of those videos worked for me. Sometimes with mobile youtube links hitting "desktop" will make it work - but not in these cases, for me at least.

[meupatdoes]

Jesus, what is so hard about this concept.

Some people like to school to the highest level their horse is capable of and perform the movements to the best of that horse's ability. Not everyone has to be competitive in the competition arena and for Joe Schmoe sometimes it is ok to give it their best crack, maybe if they do lose a little engagement here and there.

Are people supposed to quit training their horse past any level where it can no longer get 70%'s or something?

By the same logic should all the amateur RIDERS who do not have the ideal slim dressage conformation and elegant seat be told that they aren't REALLY riding at all? "Real" FEI is 75%+ in the GP Special these days, people. Get with it. You want to show up with your muffin top and mid 60's scores and consider yourself to be actually riding? And tell other people they AREN'T doing "real" riding? Look around at what is really possible when you stick Charlotte and Valegro together and see if YOU measure up. We can send you on your and Charlotte and Valegro down diagonal side by side and see who has lost a little engagement.

There are plenty of AVERAGE horses (when assessed comparable to the rest of the equine population), who if someone trains them correctly and sticks with it long enough, can be developed servicably school some upper level stuff. Nobody is deluding themselves that it is Pan Am level results, but it is still correct training.

There are also plenty of people on very fancy horses who can't sit the trot and get themselves past First, and personally, I would rather be the rider who can get a 5 mover to do his personal best canter pirouette and elicits the absolute best effort and quality possible from **that** horse, possibly even losing some engagement here and there, than someone who consistently rides their horse at 15% of its potential ability.

I am also sure as mcschizzle not going to stop trying to train everything I ride to *its* personal best just because someone else is like, "Well, that wouldn't get a 7 so it doesn't count and please don't go off thinking your achievements with that type horse are worth anything whatsoever. Sniff sniff, you lost some engagement there didn't you."

[meupatdoes]

I don't think that the OP is looking for videos of less talented horses. She is looking for videos of average movers with less than ideal conformation who are competent above 2nd level. In my view, those horses are MORE talented than a horse with fancy movement and perfect conformation for dressage. It doesn't come so easy for that horse.

I think there is a confusion between talent and skill, here.

Talent = innate genetic ability. It is unearned, and the dose you were born with is the dose you die with.

Skill = what you learn how to do over the course of your riding career, marshalling both however much talent you have plus additional effort and sweat equity toward the cause.

If CKD had never sat on a horse in her life, she would still have the talent, just none of the skill.

Similarly, a less talented horse ridden well can learn a greater skill set than a much more talented horse ridden poorly.

[amm2cd]

I don't think that the OP is looking for videos of less talented horses. She is looking for videos of average movers with less than ideal conformation who are competent above 2nd level. In my view, those horses are MORE talented than a horse with fancy movement and perfect conformation for dressage. It doesn't come so easy for that horse.

I'd have to disagree... A horse who is more naturally predisposed for the sport has more natural talent. An less athletically talented horse may have loads of try, but That doesn't make him more talented.

And my question for the OP was more along the lines of what is she looking for? That less than 7-mover's do well in the sand box? or for examples of 'correct' movement without the added distraction of 8+ movement?

[Eclectic Horseman]

I think there is a confusion between talent and skill, here.

Talent = innate genetic ability. It is unearned, and the dose you were born with is the dose you die with.

Skill = what you learn how to do over the course of your riding career, marshalling both however much talent you have plus additional effort and sweat equity toward the cause.

If CKD had never sat on a horse in her life, she would still have the talent, just none of the skill.

Similarly, a less talented horse ridden well can learn a greater skill set than a much more talented horse ridden poorly.

I should have clarified what I think that the talent is that I think the less fancy horse has. The talent that I am speaking of is not the talent "to do dressage" if you define dressage as the natural ability to collect, articulate the joints, extend the stride, etc. etc. I think of that as more "suitability for dressage" rather than talent.

The talent that I speak of is trainability. Most of trainability is a temperament quality. So to clarify, I think that a horse that is born "less suitable for dressage" has to have a lot of trainability in order to gain skills that come less easily to him.