I am considering breeding my three year old Oldenburg mares to pony stallions for their first foals. Since first babies tend to be smaller anyway I thought I would try for smaller to begin with. I would want to sell the resulting foals as weanling as I do not have a teeny tiny trainer to start them later. Two questions: how is the market for pony foals, and how on earth do you part with anything so cute!
I regularly have inquiries for foals that will mature as large ponies, but we do not produce those, as we focus on the purebreds. From the inquiries I've had, I would judge the market to be fairly good, considering I'm not even advertising anything like what a lot of these people are looking for.
It seems like a lot of my sport horse mare clients sell their Mardi Gras babies as foals -- though others breed with the plan to keep, or keep until going under saddle.
I'm with rideagoldenpony. For the non-purebred folks (I primarily breed Half Welshes, finally just venturing into purebred), they want larger ponies, typically 14-14.1 hands from what I've found. Most of the breeding inquiries I get as well are people looking to breed their decent sized mare to a pony to get something around 14 hands.
As for how to part with them- can't help you there. I've got one right now who I really really really SHOULD sell, but I'm having a ridiculously hard time with it. I've got a clients pony here too who they've just decided to sell and it's KILLING me not buying it for myself! This coming year is going to be absolute torture as I've got three coming, and I would be perfectly content to keep them all.... but in reality I should sell them all... They are perfectly cute, and tiny, with darling little ears and whiskers. Typically rather fuzzy, friendly, and fancy. NOT easy to not like!
I am a German Riding Pony breeder and I commonly sell mine as foals. In fact, I am all out of youngsters for sale at the moment. The biggest market I have is the top of the line large to oversized ponies, so I have started using some WB mares to cross with GRP's. Believe it or not, oversized is my most common request! FYI-You really don't need a tiny trainer to start large ponies...but as a breeder, selling them as foals is ussualy still the best way to go. Good luck and feel free to contact me if you have any questions.
Let me get in line right behind NickRick. I have nothing moving. I have a 15 hand registered half Welsh for sale who scored 70% at training level at the recognized show this past weekend and is a piece of cake to ride but the few tire kickers I've had want bigger or branded. I have two 2012 fillies, one purebred and one 3/4 bred Welsh who will mature around 14 hands and 15 hands respectively and not one bit of interest though I haven't become overly concerned because other than on my website I haven't really advertised them for sale and won't until the first of the year after we've weaned them and taken new video and pictures.
I am seriously contemplating breeding (to a Welsh stallion) our Manhattan (Oldenburg) mare, my purebred and half bred welsh mares this spring but may hold off if I don't get anything moved by then. I'm in a difficult area for selling anything that isn't "the norm" but one would think that a proven performance record would at least get some nibbles.
I don't believe the first foal is small thought. But, the interest in large sport ponies is good! I see them selling more as two and three year olds though. I think it depends on where you are, some places the market is real good, it is just starting to catch on here in the North east.
I have some nice sale ponies for those who are getting inquiries and don't have what they are looking for!
<sigh>..I WISH I had a few babies coming from Belafonte. We get requests regularly from baby boomers looking for a smaller ride but with warmblood attributes. So, I believe the market is out there. We're planning on breeding him to a couple smaller mares in the hopes of producing large ponies or honies. The interest is definitely out there!
We breed and promote Pure and Partbred Connemara Ponies for Dressage and Combined Training. All of our breeding stock is also approved/performance tested with the Weser Ems. The part or half breds tend to stick around a little longer depending on how they are bred (and the price!). The purebreds tend to draw more interest initially especially well bred filly foals and stallion prospects. That being said we have nothing currently for sale--all our youngsters sold last season into GREAT homes. Almost all of our homebreds sell at or before age 3--the most interest comes just as they are about to be started under saddle or just as they approaching riding age. My last group of youngsters were on the market only a couple of weeks before they sold--I did not bother to advertise them much until just last year.
I have a lovley 15.2 warmblood mare that I've considered putting to a fancy pony stallion but I am nervous of being able to sell the youngster. I may still try it in the future.
I don't know about the first foal thing, hers is over 16 hands as a two year old.
I bred my 15.3HH maiden A-line Hanoverian mare to Alvesta Picasso in 2007 with the same thought in mind. I wanted a keeper sport pony (but ended up with healthy twins, but that's another story and a half).
I kept one of the twins and she has done very well in-hand and recently scored gold premium at the RPSI inspection this fall. She hasn't gone out much, but when she does - I do get enquiries as to her availability.
I decided to breed her mom back to Picasso for a foal next year. This one is for sale in utero and I haven't had any interest (but haven't really advertised because I'm really pathetic and want to keep them all).
Since first babies tend to be smaller anyway I thought I would try for smaller to begin with.
Don't get sucked into the myth For many of the breeders on this board, this Old Wive's Tale has been disproved many times! As everyone has already stated, the demand is definitely higher for large ponies over mediums.
There are lots of successful Welsh x warmblood crosses...the key is doing your homework. We have bred our pony stallions successfully to warmblood mares, but it's important to understand that some pony stallions throw a lot of height, others don't. Same goes for the mares. If your Oldenburg mare is over 15.3 HH and has a lot of height in her pedigree, you're going to have to be very careful on what stallion you choose for her. I think you'll find with most warmbloods mares that you will need to stick with a stallion that is under 13 HH so the resulting foal doesn't end up a "hony". Again though, that can vary a bit depending on the background of your mare
I know what you mean about how adorable these ponies are. I had my first Welsh cross foal this year, a filly, and LUV her I did the breeding last year for a pony to sell, but now I am not so sure I want to part with her
The Inverted Y
Anglo Arabian Sporthorses
2005 and 2007 USEF Breeder of the Year. www.allanglos.net
[QUOTE=Daventry;6700391]Don't get sucked into the myth For many of the breeders on this board, this Old Wive's Tale has been disproved many times! As everyone has already stated, the demand is definitely higher for large ponies over mediums.
Actually the "smaller first baby" is based on my observations of my own herd over the last 20 years. Examples Baby#1 16.1, baby #2 17.2 - same dam and sire. Baby #1 15.1, baby #2 17.1, baby #3 17, baby #4 17.1 same dam all sires 16.2. Baby #1 15.2 baby # 2 16.2, baby # 3 16 at age 2 same dam first sire 17.1, second sire 16.2,
I don't say that this is necessarily a rule but it seems to be pretty consistent for my herd. I can only recall one mare out of over 20 whose first baby was one of her largest. Others may have a different experience.
Aj's first Welsh cross twins were 13.2-ish simply due to being twins I'm sure. Her second pregnancy was to a 17.2HH Swedish WB...so can't compare.
We'll see what she produces this year with Picasso. I'm assuming bigger than 13.2...possibly a hony. When I did advertise the one twin sibling when she was a yearling I did get lots of people hoping she would mature 14HH to 15HH...
So not sure if that helps your decision process marketing-wise. But I can definitely say they are hard/impossible to part with - so beware
well, at least I am in good company I bred my Wolkentanz I mare to a Weser Ems stallion Manchester City. I *hope* to get a 15h +/- fancy pants honey for myself. we shall see.
Depending on what happens over the next 6 months (and of course the foal itself) i may re-breed my mare - and probably to another pony. i really think there is going to be a big market in fancy "mid" sized horses....
Also, it's important to note that if you are trying to sell foals (or anything, for that matter) it's important to have quality photos and video, and actually *advertise* them!
Touche; however, those can be tough for some of us to come by and also there is a preference for some of us to sell our stock into local homes which I have always found to be done through word-of-mouth. The tire kickers I've had have all been older ammies (60+) or really their trainers, all who know me and vice versa, and the end result so far is to go to Europe....that's 4 out of 4 to this date.
I really wish more folks would realize what fun ponies are and how much easier it is to ride them..... why struggle with a giant when you can have a blast on a smaller sport model?
I've had some pretty interesting conversations about this lately. I have been repeatedly told that it's all about "the quality." I've even been told by a few judges now, USEF rated, that on a 'pony' you are out there bare as bones and there is no hiding ANYTHING. On a larger horse of conventional dressage breeding and nice gaits, you can hide and get away with quite a lot. People who are advising their clients on what to buy know this and know they need to weigh the risks and the benefits of obtaining stated goals. Some recipes have a higher chance for success, as you know, than others because others require more work from all involved. If I were in "their" shoes and asked frankly what makes the most sense I would have to recommend the same path. I've just always been one who has marched to my own drum, bandleader be damned, but, know that there are fewer willing to do/say the same. Perhaps it's just my area as it has seemed to be the case over all these years of talk about the sport pony market.
I probably should add that I did get calls over the weekend, out of the blue, from people asking if I still had a particular horse (pony breed) to which I replied, 'yes'. I was then asked by one if he was available for purchase and before I could answer gave me what she wanted to pay for him. I had to let her know that while I was willing to lease the horse out earlier this year, he was not nor has he ever been for sale. I have never advertised this horse, EVER. This is not the first time I've had people cold call me on this animal. The prices offered though have repeatedly made me giggle........um yeah, let me sell him to you for 'x' price so I can go out and pay 10 times that much to buy the same for myself or make another one which will take some time and all because ???????? So to be fair I have had people call and show interest in some of my stock and for what they really are, just not those that are for sale.