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  1. #21
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    Micro chipping is super easy and not very expensive. I agree that all horses should be chipped anyhow. I'm tired of reading about nice hunters--thinking I'd like to look up their pedigree--BUT I CAN'T because apparently no one who imported the nice horse knows who it is. so stupid.

    but my question is concerning MER.
    What the heck is that?
    Can someone please explain the whole D, C, B, A thing?
    I totally don't get it.
    http://kaboomeventing.com/
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    Horses are amazing athletes and make no mistake -- they are the stars of the show!



  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by purplnurpl View Post
    but my question is concerning MER.
    What the heck is that?
    Can someone please explain the whole D, C, B, A thing?
    I totally don't get it.
    MER is the FEI equivalent of a QR. So under 75 in dressage, no XC penalties at a CIC, no more than 20 jump at a CCI, no more than 90 seconds of time, and no more than four rails.

    I have no idea about the D, C, B, A thing.



  3. #23
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    Apr. 30, 2002
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    I think there will be a chart forthcoming (probably on EN) in next few days. . . as far as the FEI giving notice of rule changes....they don't publicize the rule change proposals until AFTER they've been approved, I think, which is different from the way our NF goes about rule changes. It does seem a bit odd they don't give a time frame, but honestly, I first heard they were changing the FEI requirements probably early in spring of this year. I knew they were coming; but since I don't compete at that level, didn't pay too much attention!
    "Passion, though a bad regulator, is a powerful spring." -- Emerson
    www.eventhorse.wordpress.com



  4. #24
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    Jul. 16, 2003
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    Guthrie, OK
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    All my horses are microchipped. And have been for ages and ages. They are chipped for security reasons. Should one "disappear" there is no dispute about if that is the horse. Once upone a time when slaughter was still happening in this country, all horses had to be scanned before slaughter. Anything chipped had to be held until it was verified it wasn't stolen, etc.
    You can't change a chip. It is always there. Period.

    The only glitch with the FEI chip rule is that they will only accept/allow certain chips. And trust me, the way it is written, your vet may not know if the chip brand they carry is one that meets the FEI rules or not. All mine are chipped iwth AVID chips. From what I can gather so far, AVID chips-which are the most popular, most used chips in the world- are not FEI approved :-( So you need to know what brand chips the FEI will accept and what brand your vet uses. The "ISO" language is not veterinarian friendly.


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  5. #25
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    Nov. 8, 2006
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    The ABCD thing stipulates which riders can ride at the FEI level on a horse that they have not qualified themselves. IE when 4* riders buy 4* mounts for the Olympics. All amateurs and/or one horse wonders are outta luck when it comes to buying established UL horses and immediately campaigning that horse at a level at which they are not qualified.
    "Gallop as if you were to die tomorrow, jump as if you were to live forever."


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  6. #26
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    Jun. 16, 2009
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    Gray Court, SC
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    Quote Originally Posted by olympicdreams04 View Post
    All amateurs and/or one horse wonders are outta luck when it comes to buying established UL horses and immediately campaigning that horse at a level at which they are not qualified.
    Hey, I resemble that remark At shows I can finally answer when asked who I am...A one horse wonder but ... are they wondering what I'm doing on that horse?


    1 members found this post helpful.

  7. #27
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    Oct. 27, 2012
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    Sometimes I scratch my head and wonder if leading comitees get together and make the subject for their meeting "What is the best possible way to screw people up?"
    Art De TriumphCaballineRebel
    I don't fall... I dismount... with style.


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  8. #28
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    Apr. 2, 2009
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    North Carolina
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alpha App View Post
    Sometimes I scratch my head and wonder if leading comitees get together and make the subject for their meeting "What is the best possible way to screw people up?"
    Is this not the point of ALL meetings in the world?



  9. #29
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    Oct. 4, 2008
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    Can someone explain to me the letters? If you show 4 cci events...in a year, do you have to do that five years to moveup? This is ridiculous! The NF's need to stand up to this bully! They are making this more and more elite!
    May the sun shine on you daily, and your worries be gone with the wind.
    www.mmceventing.com



  10. #30
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    Aug. 14, 2004
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    non eventer here - can someone explain CIC CCI etc etc? to me? I can't make heads or tails of this conversation because i don't understand the acronym's

    thanks!

    eta looks like someone else asked the same question sorry for dupe!



  11. #31
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    CIC is a dumbed down form of eventing that is very much like horse trials in the US. It can take place on one, two, or three days; it can have show jumping before XC; it doesn't need the same number of judges, nor does it have to have horse inspections. The XC courses are shorter and have fewer jumping efforts. The FEI now seems to be taking the position that CICs are the training ground for CCIs.

    CCIs are the standard current three day event--dressage, XC and Show Jumping on three separate days in that order. The FEI is now calling them "long Format". They require a horse inspection before starting, and a second horse inspection after XC. At certain levels (I'm not sure about all of them), three judges are required for dressage.
    The XC course is about 1/3 longer than the course at a CIC at the same level, and the number of jumping efforts is correspondingly greater.
    "I'm a lumberjack, and I'm okay."
    Thread killer Extraordinaire


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  12. #32
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    Dec. 4, 2012
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    Post Final Answer to Come Soon

    Quote Originally Posted by retreadeventer View Post
    I think there will be a chart forthcoming (probably on EN) in next few days. . . as far as the FEI giving notice of rule changes....they don't publicize the rule change proposals until AFTER they've been approved, I think, which is different from the way our NF goes about rule changes. It does seem a bit odd they don't give a time frame, but honestly, I first heard they were changing the FEI requirements probably early in spring of this year. I knew they were coming; but since I don't compete at that level, didn't pay too much attention!
    Hey all, this new FEI Qualifications list had me all freaked out, along with lots of other people, so I went and made a few charts to simplify it for myself. The changes are minimal, and most of them simply add another CIC to the requirements for a CCI.

    However, I also went and called the USEF for some clarifications to write something for EN, and if you look at the new rules, you'll see "NF + CIC2*" or something like that, which means that you need a set of National Federation Rules to add something to. However, the USEF doesn't have that set yet, and they have to nail something down in order to apply these FEI additions.

    SO, the discussion will begin on Thursday, at the Convention, and by Monday of next week we should have a press release from our National Federations which tells you how this applies to US riders and horses. And, of course, I'll be making more charts and writing it dummy style for EN.

    Hope this makes some of you take deeper breaths and allays some fears!


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  13. #33
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    Oct. 22, 2001
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    Kate - appreciate that. But bear in mind that "just another CIC" actually is quite a big deal for most amateurs and will required higher entry fees and increased travel (particularly if you live outside of Area II!). Additionally, we will now be required to do significantly more for a CCI** - it used to be that the horse could run intermediate plus do one CIC**, you are now required to run a CCI* as well as two CIC**. That's a lot more pounding on a relatively young horse, and not necessarily something that's going to help them get more skilled.


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  14. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by GotSpots View Post
    Kate - appreciate that. But bear in mind that "just another CIC" actually is quite a big deal for most amateurs and will required higher entry fees and increased travel (particularly if you live outside of Area II!).
    This is what bothers me. Everyone is saying wait for the NF requirements to come out after the convention, but the kicker to me is the extra CIC required at each level, and there's no way to negate that with NF requirements. It's somewhat the money, but mostly it's the vacation days from work. I only get 10 days a year, and most CCI's require at least 3-4 days alone. CIC's usually require two. It starts making it REALLY difficult to qualify within the two years expiration.

    Quote Originally Posted by GotSpots View Post
    Additionally, we will now be required to do significantly more for a CCI** - it used to be that the horse could run intermediate plus do one CIC**, you are now required to run a CCI* as well as two CIC**. That's a lot more pounding on a relatively young horse, and not necessarily something that's going to help them get more skilled.
    This isn't quite true. Before you needed two Intermediates (the NF requirement) and either a CIC** or a CCI*. Now you need the NF requirement (TBD apparently) and either a CCI* and a CIC**, OR two CIC**.

    "CCI2*: NF requirements + (1 CCI1* or 1 CIC2*) and 1 CIC2*"

    So it's still more wear and tear on the horses, but you only need two FEI events for a CCI2*, not three. But to do a CIC2*, you must have a CIC*. So I guess technically to qualify for a CCI2*, you need either (CIC*, CCI*, CIC2*) or (CIC*, CIC2*, CIC2*).

    Before this change, you could get away with not doing a CIC* or a CCI*. Now you MUST do a CIC*, but you can still get away with not doing a CCI*.



  15. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by ksamuels View Post
    However, I also went and called the USEF for some clarifications to write something for EN, and if you look at the new rules, you'll see "NF + CIC2*" or something like that, which means that you need a set of National Federation Rules to add something to. However, the USEF doesn't have that set yet, and they have to nail something down in order to apply these FEI additions.
    But surely Ev Appendix 3 section 3 is EXACTLY the NF rules for FEI participation. No need to "write anything new". I have bolded the NF part of the qualification rules

    3. LEVELS OF INTERNATIONAL HORSE TRIALS AND EVENTS
    In all instances, at least one of the QRs must have been obtained in the current or
    preceeding calendar year.
    All competitors and horses must meet the minimum requirements published by
    the FEI.

    3.1 CIC* Both the competitor and the horse, though not necessarily as a combination,
    must have achieved 3 NQRs at either National Preliminary Horse Trials
    (CNC*) or National One Star Three-Day Events (CCN*).

    3.2 CCI* Both the competitor and the horse, though not necessarily as a combination,
    must have achieved 4 NQRs at any combination of: CNC*, CCN*, CIC*.

    3.3 CIC** The horse and rider, though not necessarily as a combination must
    have achieved 2 IQRs at a CNC** or higher.

    3.4 CCI** Having met the minimum requirements of the FEI, the horse and
    rider, though not necessarily as a combination must have achieved 3 IQRs at a
    CNC** or higher.

    3.5 CIC*** Having met the minimum requirements of the FEI, the horse and
    rider, though not necessarily as a combination must have achieved 2 IQRs at a
    CNC*** or higher
    . BOD 1/18/09 Effective immediately

    3.6 CCI*** The horse and rider must meet the minimum requirements of the
    FEI.

    3.7 CCI**** The horse and rider must meet the minimum requirements of the
    FEI.
    Janet

    chief feeder and mucker for Music, Spy, Belle and Tiara. Someone else is now feeding and mucking for Chief and Brain (both foxhunting now).



  16. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Divine Comedy View Post
    So it's still more wear and tear on the horses, but you only need two FEI events for a CCI2*, not three. But to do a CIC2*, you must have a CIC*. So I guess technically to qualify for a CCI2*, you need either (CIC*, CCI*, CIC2*) or (CIC*, CIC2*, CIC2*).

    Before this change, you could get away with not doing a CIC* or a CCI*. Now you MUST do a CIC*, but you can still get away with not doing a CCI*.
    Yep, that's right and more clear. Maybe it's to make the CIC* more relevant - in the past I regularly thought it was the single biggest waste of an entry fee since you didn't need it for anything. But if this encourages folks to go out and buy a shad for their whopping CIC* debut, I might just quit altogether.



  17. #37
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    Janet, they may need to rewrite the qualification rules. IIRC, the FEI is now requiring the COMBINATION have the qualifications--unless the rider is a pro and permanently qualified. And I'm not sure of the pro exception.

    My feeling is that in the long run, these changes, whether intended to or not, will work to kill off CCIs.
    "I'm a lumberjack, and I'm okay."
    Thread killer Extraordinaire



  18. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by vineyridge View Post
    Janet, they may need to rewrite the qualification rules. IIRC, the FEI is now requiring the COMBINATION have the qualifications--unless the rider is a pro and permanently qualified. And I'm not sure of the pro exception.

    My feeling is that in the long run, these changes, whether intended to or not, will work to kill off CCIs.
    Sure, they may need to rewrite them, especially the FEI part of them. But that is not the same as saying (as was claimed) that USEF "doesn't have" any NF qualification rules for FEI events.
    Janet

    chief feeder and mucker for Music, Spy, Belle and Tiara. Someone else is now feeding and mucking for Chief and Brain (both foxhunting now).



  19. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by ksamuels View Post
    Hey all, this new FEI Qualifications list had me all freaked out, along with lots of other people, so I went and made a few charts to simplify it for myself. The changes are minimal, and most of them simply add another CIC to the requirements for a CCI.
    ksamuels, while you're at it, maybe you could ask various officials and spokesfolk about the whys of these new hoops-to-jump-through.

    More specifically:

    -- what current problems (ask for real-life examples) are these new qualifications intended to solve or ameliorate?

    -- how are these rules -- these rules specifically -- intended to address these issues? Again, what real-life evidence or data has been collected to support these rule changes?

    You can access the FEI Warning Cards for eventing via this page. This is the record of riders charged with yellow and red cards. How do these rule changes intend to change the content of this page for 2013?

    I love that you're following up on this story for EN but I think we need to demand real answers for rule changes that impact us, our enjoyment of the sport, and the welfare of our horses.

    Last edited by JER; Dec. 4, 2012 at 06:59 PM.


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  20. #40
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    More to JER's post, I noticed on that list of yellow cards that either the riding at some events was particularly bad or there were card happy officials present.

    Also find it outrageous that the 3rd/4th? wife of the non-democratic leader of a tiny country has absolute power over 3 Olympic disciplines and that that power penetrates to the level of asserting control over whether some tadpole level student in the United States of America can have her intermediate level FEI rider trainer take her to a schooling event if god forbid that schooling event gets too popular and causes the local recognized event to complain to the USEF.

    This debacle on top of what the FEI did to poor Yvonne LM from the DR when she dared to challenge them makes me see red.



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