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  1. #21
    Join Date
    Jan. 30, 2010
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    Alberta
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    3,507

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    My little Arab is "girthy" about the cavesson, even if not done up tightly, so I took it off her bridle. I do have a figure-8 on order to see if she prefers that, but for now she goes without.

    I think because she is very mouthy, her previous owners may have used a tight noseband, and left the mare with a bad association.

    I do not think that in general nosebands are bad though, but do think they should be given more understanding and consideration.


    1 members found this post helpful.

  2. #22
    Join Date
    Oct. 11, 2007
    Location
    Andover, MA
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    5,359

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    Quote Originally Posted by Carol Ames View Post
    Look here!http://www.williammicklem.com/multib...insideout.html
    MORE COMFORTABLE, MORE HUMANE, MORE EFFECTIVE!
    The Rambo® Micklem Multibridle is the first bridle or cavesson that is designed from the inside out, from the shape of the skull itself, instead of just from the outward appearance of the head. (Figure 1) In particular it avoids any pressure on the fa-cial nerves, the projec-ting cheek bones or the upper jaw molar teeth.
    Carol, before I switched to the current arrangement, my mare was in a Miklem bridle and she was OK with it (certainly better than when she's in a bridle with a flash.) I showed her a couple of times in it, too. I still have it and am considering whether to hang onto it since so many horses do like them.
    You have to have experiences to gain experience.

    Proudly owned by Mythic Feronia, 1998 Morgan mare; G-dspeed Trump & Minnie; welcome 2014 Morgan filly MtnTop FlyWithMeJosephine



  3. #23
    Join Date
    Oct. 25, 2012
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    3,802

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    It also struck me reading the new Dover catalog the other day, how there are barely any offerings of "plain" leather reins now, even for hunters, whereas the new permutations of stops, rubber, grippies, and hi-tech materials proliferate with each new catalog. Ditto over at Smart Pak.

    What this tells me is that practically everyone is water-skiing on their horses' tied-shut mouths, and the art of slipping, "combing," "vibrating," or even probably HOLDING the reins is at risk of being lost!



  4. #24
    Join Date
    Oct. 11, 2007
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    Andover, MA
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lady Eboshi View Post
    It also struck me reading the new Dover catalog the other day, how there are barely any offerings of "plain" leather reins now, even for hunters, whereas the new permutations of stops, rubber, grippies, and hi-tech materials proliferate with each new catalog. Ditto over at Smart Pak.

    What this tells me is that practically everyone is water-skiing on their horses' tied-shut mouths, and the art of slipping, "combing," "vibrating," or even probably HOLDING the reins is at risk of being lost!
    I do find rein stops useful as a reminder about where my hands are/where they should be. And found rubber reins very useful for a big strong horse when I was jumping... These are all innovations and I am not inclined toward the "OMG horsemanship is being LOST!" thinking.

    When I was a teen taking lessons 30+ years ago, I recall very few plain reins. Most of what we had was laced, and the occasional lovely braided reins.
    You have to have experiences to gain experience.

    Proudly owned by Mythic Feronia, 1998 Morgan mare; G-dspeed Trump & Minnie; welcome 2014 Morgan filly MtnTop FlyWithMeJosephine


    6 members found this post helpful.

  5. #25

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    When I use a noseband (rarely now, I took it off my bridle but if we end up going to a show or something I'll put it back on), I always do it loose anyway (at least two fingers can fit between the leather and the horse). But my horse always seems more finicky about putting the bridle on when there's a noseband attached (I don't think he likes all the 'extra' leather hanging around his face) than if there isn't so I just took it off.

    I do have rubber reins but I got them because they're blue. And I do like that right where the rubber starts is usually where it's the 'sweet spot' for me to hold my reins normally so it makes it really easy to remember.
    The Trials and Jubilations of a Twenty-Something Re-rider
    Happy owner of Kieran the mostly-white-very-large-not-pony.


    1 members found this post helpful.

  6. #26
    Join Date
    Sep. 11, 2011
    Posts
    1,110

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lady Eboshi View Post
    It also struck me reading the new Dover catalog the other day, how there are barely any offerings of "plain" leather reins now, even for hunters, whereas the new permutations of stops, rubber, grippies, and hi-tech materials proliferate with each new catalog. Ditto over at Smart Pak.

    What this tells me is that practically everyone is water-skiing on their horses' tied-shut mouths, and the art of slipping, "combing," "vibrating," or even probably HOLDING the reins is at risk of being lost!
    I've never used plain reins in 20 years....not really that common in my area. Nice generalizations about nosebands and bad riding...at first I thought you were joking. Handstops are hardly the devils work LOL.


    3 members found this post helpful.

  7. #27
    Join Date
    Jul. 14, 2011
    Location
    Warren County, NJ
    Posts
    1,014

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    I like web reins with stops so I know they're even. Gosh, I forgot all about combing the reins! Have to go give that a shot tomorrow. Haven't done that in a long time.



  8. #28
    Join Date
    May. 9, 2007
    Posts
    484

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    My new 5 yr old was a little fussy about the contact. I had his teeth floated, but still 'fussy'. Took the drop off and voila, beautiful mouth. I'm going to try a plain 'loose' noseband next week, see how he likes that.
    Re reins, why can't you find nice wide ones anymore? They all seem really narrow, whether they're rubberized braided or what-have-you. I did find a pair of plaited reins that were very wide and very nice, but a client's horse chewed them!



  9. #29
    Join Date
    Jan. 6, 2001
    Location
    Washington State
    Posts
    1,704

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    Is anyone doing 3rd or higher level with a loose or non-existent noseband?

    After thinking about how much my semi-retired mare likes it, I loosened my gelding's noseband another hole for our ride today. He seemed to like that just fine. I'm not sure whether this was just a really good day anyway (it was) or if this will continue...guess I'll see. We're working 3rd level.



  10. #30
    Join Date
    Dec. 28, 2006
    Location
    NC
    Posts
    75

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    The flash came off long ago and the noseband several years ago. My horse literally raised his head, stretched his neck, and celebrated by jingling the bit the first time I bridled him without it. He goes so much better now. I have his regular dressage bridle sans noseband and the Micklem which I use without a bit. I alternate between the two. Much much happier horse.



  11. #31
    Join Date
    Jul. 22, 2012
    Location
    CA
    Posts
    805

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    While I was waiting for my new bridle to show up, I rode my guy around in a western headstall, no noseband, in a loose ring waterford. He loved it! I never adjusted nosebands to be snug, but now I leave them as loose as I can without having it twist and bump his face. He's overall much softer and more receptive to contact!



  12. #32
    Join Date
    Nov. 18, 2010
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    117

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    I'm trainin Third, competing Second. I never ride with a flash. I think for certain horses it could be used positively as a training tool if adjusted correctly and not used o cover up bad training or rough hands.

    I put my caveson on the loosest hole. It's loose enough for my horse to enjoy a treat when she's done something awesome, or to settle her when the horse eating combine goes rumbling next to us. It's really just decoration. I don't want to take it off because, like the flash that came with the bridle, I'll lose it. I don't know where all these bits of tack go, but I'm sure there's some kind of neverland they migrate to once removed from a working piece of tack.

    I don't see the big deal with using a caveson if its adjusted loosely. You don't want it poorly adjusted and annoying the horse, but a well fitted one with room for the horse to move its jaw shouldn't cause the horse any problems. If it is, then either it's too tight, poorly adjusted and annoying the horse, or the horse has some sort of pain associated with where it sits. I'd be more inclined to get the horses teeth checked if a well-fitted caveson is causing head shaking or fussiness (at least to rule it out as a possibility).


    1 members found this post helpful.

  13. #33
    Join Date
    Aug. 19, 2012
    Location
    PA
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    301

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    A question for those of you who say your horses go better in a micklem bridle ... I realize they are supposed to be "anatomically designed" to fit the horse's head properly, but every version of it that I have seen has a strap that goes below the bit, under the horse's chin. How is this really so different from a properly fitted and adjusted drop noseband?

    While drop nosebands and flash nosebands are not the same thing, and the design of a flash noseband (unlike a drop noseband) makes it predisposed to over-tightening, they are both intended to keep the horse from being able to open its mouth and evade the bit.

    So my question is, what is it about the micklem that makes it a noninvasive, non-restrictive training aid while a drop or flash noseband is just a quick fix for those who don't want to take the time to train properly?

    I will admit that I have never used a micklem bridle so maybe it would turn my horses into instant superstars, but I have to admit that I tend to be leery of things that seem gimmicky. Sometimes I wish they did placebo-controlled studies of new horsey gadgets.



  14. #34
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    Sep. 15, 2011
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    256

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sticky Situation View Post
    they are both intended to keep the horse from being able to open its mouth and evade the bit.
    The other reason that's often given is that the dropped or flash noseband is for stabilizing the bit in the horse's mouth. Although I'm not so sure I buy that, because horse's don't seem to have any trouble stabilizing the bits in their mouths when there's nothing attached to them (such as riders).



  15. #35
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    Oct. 25, 2012
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    3,802

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sticky Situation View Post
    A question for those of you who say your horses go better in a micklem bridle ... I realize they are supposed to be "anatomically designed" to fit the horse's head properly, but every version of it that I have seen has a strap that goes below the bit, under the horse's chin. How is this really so different from a properly fitted and adjusted drop noseband?

    While drop nosebands and flash nosebands are not the same thing, and the design of a flash noseband (unlike a drop noseband) makes it predisposed to over-tightening, they are both intended to keep the horse from being able to open its mouth and evade the bit.

    So my question is, what is it about the micklem that makes it a noninvasive, non-restrictive training aid while a drop or flash noseband is just a quick fix for those who don't want to take the time to train properly?

    I will admit that I have never used a micklem bridle so maybe it would turn my horses into instant superstars, but I have to admit that I tend to be leery of things that seem gimmicky. Sometimes I wish they did placebo-controlled studies of new horsey gadgets.
    I find it interesting how much the "gadgets" have proliferated in recent years. I don't know if that means more entrepreneurs are working on the "problems," or the skills of riders have deteriorated from the times when your choices of gear could pretty much be illustrated on facing pages of a book.

    Anyone ever wondered why martial arts are a phenomenon of the Far East? It's because there, to solve the problem you worked on the skills of the man and did not blame the limitations of the technology. The "weapon" was a given. In Europe, however, technology was applied to invent a better weapon because the MAN was a "given," and his skills were usually limited. Could it be that a similar phenomenon is still in play here, when it comes to what people "think they need" to get the job done with horses?

    I still remember the days of: Snaffle, Weymouth, Kimberwick, Pelham, that's it! A dropped noseband was considered exotic.



  16. #36
    Join Date
    Jan. 31, 2007
    Location
    where its cold
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    831

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    Not that I ever try to crank the noseband super tight but HOW does any one get their nosebands so tight that the horse can't open their mouth?

    Admittedly, I use figure 8's - smashingly handsome and my current horses go well in them. But I make them "snug" and I can still easily fit my whole hand under one of the sections. How do they do it? W/ a plier???

    I did have one horse who hated flashes w/ a passion. He made his opinion clear about the matter. And he went great in a plain noseband... it can be completely an individual horse thing.

    And those bemoaning rubber reins, etc... Ever ride in the rain w/ leather reins? Rubber is SO much nicer to hang on to and it's never prevented me from slipping the reins when needed.



  17. #37
    Join Date
    Oct. 11, 2007
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    Andover, MA
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    One of the differences between a Micklem and a drop is that the top of the Micklem noseband is much higher on the horse's face... nowhere near the nostrils at all.

    Millera, have you ever seen a real crank noseband? They make it much easier to get a regular noseband really tight. Combine that with a tight flash, and that mouth isn't opening.
    You have to have experiences to gain experience.

    Proudly owned by Mythic Feronia, 1998 Morgan mare; G-dspeed Trump & Minnie; welcome 2014 Morgan filly MtnTop FlyWithMeJosephine



  18. #38
    Join Date
    Aug. 8, 2008
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    186

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    One time I was asked to exercise an instructor's horse while she was away, which I was excited about because it was a nice horse. I already knew she was a "snug noseband" person because she was always tightening everyone's buckles, but I was shocked when I bridled her horse for the first time. It was more than obvious what holes were used for the noseband and flash, and they were ungodly tight. I tried to buckle it and almost didn't have the strength to crank it that tight. I said eff it and buckled it looser, horse didn't have any objections to that of course.

    I just don't really get it. I have always buckled the noseband very loosely. As candysgirl said, it's just there for looks. Sometimes I have experimented going snugger on horses that were having some contact issues or whatever, thinking maybe a change would help, but it never has. A tight noseband only makes things worse, imho. I don't really know what there is to be gained by tight nosebands/flashes/cranks, etc.



  19. #39
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    Aug. 8, 2008
    Posts
    186

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    I used to detest rubber reins and now I love them. I guess spending some time around and on eventers will do that to yah.

    My tastes in reins is ever-evolving, it feels like. I used to love love love very thin reins, now I generally prefer something chunkier. I kind of like switching it up every now and then... whenever I get different reins, it forces me to be more aware of the contact. Plus different horses warrant different reins to me. I would rather right a sensitive, light horse in thinner reins. A horse that prefers heavier contact, I like chunkier reins or even rubber. Is that weird?



  20. #40
    Join Date
    Jan. 25, 2012
    Posts
    39

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    The noseband has never made much of a difference for me, but I grew up in pony-club where we were taught to leave it loose. I actually start all of my youngsters in a bridle that is basically just a strap of leather with a browband. It's just less for babies to break if they want to be silly. I've never understood the whole "crank the mouth" bit, even when I rode in the hunters and jumpers. My flashes sit in a box collecting dust, there if I ever want to sell a bridle. I've had no problem introducing the noseband to a horse, or taking the noseband off a horse I've started, but I think that it really makes little difference to the horse if he has no problem opening his mouth with it on anyway. And I agree on the issue of finding a bridle without a flash these days! Perhaps it is just my barn, were none of our lesson horses go in flashes, and all non-lesson horses are my rides, but do that many people really use flashes??? I hate the look of an empty flashloop, and they're a bit tricky to cut off!



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