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  1. #21
    Join Date
    Feb. 23, 2005
    Location
    Spotsylvania, VA
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    12,978

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by poltroon View Post
    Are you talking those miles as on quiet rural roads, or are they city miles with stoplights and on ramps and offramps?

    When I lived in LA, the most dangerous and stressful part of my haul wasn't long miles on interstate 5 or even Tejon Pass. It was pulling out of the driveway on a canyon road and stopping at the signal at a busy intersection that was timed for the stopping distance of cars, or stopping at the bottom of the freeway offramp, which had a significant slope. IE: 80% percent of the danger and stress on the rig was within 2 miles of home.

    On the other hand, where I live now, a 5 mile haul is flat and quiet and likely would be uneventful even if the brakes were out.
    This. Think heat and hills and twists and turns.
    I wasn't always a Smurf
    Penmerryl's Sophie RIDSH
    "I ain't as good as I once was but I'm as good once as I ever was"
    The ignore list is my friend. It takes 2 to argue.


    1 members found this post helpful.

  2. #22
    Join Date
    Nov. 24, 2002
    Location
    Northern KY
    Posts
    4,465

    Default Can you? Yes.

    Should you. No, not unless it happens to be a full sized truck with a v6.

    Or a brendarup.

    Get something old and serviceable and park it at the barn and use a 4cyl beater car for your commute. It is not really possible to get the best of both worlds.


    4 members found this post helpful.

  3. #23
    Join Date
    Sep. 29, 2009
    Posts
    2,576

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jim_in_PA View Post
    rmh_rider, while I can certainly appreciate your point of view, the reality is that there are a great many folks who have needs that are satisfied well with a different approach. Making an informed choice and matching the tow vehicle and trailer is the bottom line and for many of us, a 3/4 ton truck isn't in the cards. My "rig" can stop my trailer safely, with or without the trailer brakes engaged (accounting for failure) and my tow vehicle weighs more than the combined weight of the trailer and my horses. The towing load is also 2200 lbs below my tow vehicle's rated capacity. This works for my needs and I have no safety concerns, especially since I drive conservatively normally and even more-so when towing.
    Oh, ok, and then you in your perfect vehicle have an accident, then what?

    Don't believe the stickers, and ratings which I believe are in a "perfect situation". They do not always apply to the road which is an UNperfect situation. Just because **YOU** drive conservatively, doesn't mean other drivers will drive conservatively. When you have to stop, it is due to them, not your lightweight truck and trailer and good manners.

    If you have not had a RUDE driver pull in front of you and SLAM on the brakes, or think of your own RUDE other driver situation, then you "ain't had enough miles on your truck and trailer just yet".

    I drive very carefully (and get paid for it btw), but ya just never know the other driver.

    BTW you tell me the specs on "your entire rig" and I betcha it won't stop like ya think.

    Come on lets open the komono's and compare.

    I'll run out and snap a picture of mine right now, and get it so I can post it.


    4 members found this post helpful.

  4. #24
    Join Date
    Sep. 29, 2009
    Posts
    2,576

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    Quote Originally Posted by Petstorejunkie View Post
    I know you love that mare to bits. I would hate to hop on COTH one morning and read that you were hauling for your usual trail ride and got into an accident.
    V8 diesel will be the best of both worlds for you, but in all honesty, I bought my whole rig for $6k. At that price I could afford for the truck to be just a haul vehicle.

    Anonymous people on the Internet won't make you feel any better about your decision when you discover the hard way they were wrong.
    Yes, This ^^^^^

    You can buy a SAFE truck for what Petstore has said. Nobody has to have a real expensive truck to haul SAFELY. I saved for well over 10 years to get the truck I have now.


    2 members found this post helpful.

  5. #25
    Join Date
    Aug. 28, 2007
    Location
    Triangle Area, NC
    Posts
    6,709

    Default

    My trailer I purchased for $2500 with a new floor and new tires already installed, next to no rust 2H slant with a dressing room. The truck is a 5.4L v8 4WD with 170k miles on it, one owner who did mostly highway commuting (no hauling or city driving) that I bought for $4k. I've had both for 2 years now and I've put about 8k miles of just hauling on it. My insurance is $40 a month, and yearly taxes and fees are $60 and then $30 for an emissions. It costs me $570 a year to be able to go wherever I want with my horses whenever I want.
    It's super cheap to do the right thing
    www.destinationconsensusequus.com
    chaque pas est fait ensemble


    4 members found this post helpful.

  6. #26
    Join Date
    Dec. 18, 2011
    Posts
    518

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    Quote Originally Posted by rmh_rider View Post
    BTW you tell me the specs on "your entire rig" and I betcha it won't stop like ya think.
    Sure...I can do that. 2012 Jeep Grand Cherokee Overland Summit; weight 5300 lbs. 5.7L 360 HP Hemi V8, heavy duty brakes, extra cooling, self-leveling air suspension, Class IV towing capacity 7200 lbs. 2004 TrailersUSA Minutman 2h BP with electric brakes, empty weight 2000 lbs. Horses 2400 lbs total. It serves my need for incidental local hauling and I'm comfortable towing with it. I was going to buy a Böckmann Portax AK, but found this mint-condition, light weight TrailersUSA horse limo locally...for about $14000 less. If I was going to tow a lot, I'd consider a "big rig". But I'm not. I don't expect that I would ever convince you that what I have is "safe", but that's a subjective call and it is what it is.



  7. #27
    Join Date
    Jan. 23, 2000
    Location
    Virginia
    Posts
    7,905

    Default

    I recognize that it's not the safest setup, but I would never take it further than a local gig, and wouldn't be towing all that frequently.
    This just makes me cringe.

    Attempting to squeak by with the smallest rig possible is a bad plan. I recall someone who used to absolutely insist that her Explorer was an excellent tow vehicle and it was just freaking fine and unfortunately, she wound up killing her horses.

    It is better to be overtrucked than undertrucked. Go with safe, for the sake of your horses, yourself, and the rest of us on the road. A twee SUV, which is what a V6 SUV generally is, will likely be pretty underpowered trying to tow a horse trailer.

    Unless you go with a brenderup.
    ---
    They're small hearts.


    6 members found this post helpful.

  8. #28
    Join Date
    Jan. 21, 2010
    Posts
    2,170

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    Quote Originally Posted by PiberFever17 View Post
    I can't afford to have 2 vehicles on the road, and my commute is too long to afford the gas for a big V8 engine.
    Are you sure? I didn't think I could afford it either, but when gas prices skyrocketed, it suddenly became far more affordable to retire my old (year 2000, 150k+ mile) diesel truck to trailer-duty only and purchase a much cheaper little car to zip around in and for my long commutes to work.

    Plus, you think you won't need to go further than a couple miles now, but what if you have to move for whatever reason in a few years? Or God forbid there's an emergency and you need to get your horse to the nearest university hospital that is 5 hours away?


    2 members found this post helpful.

  9. #29
    Join Date
    Dec. 8, 2012
    Location
    Winterfell, aka New England
    Posts
    44

    Default

    I was always taught that it's not about being able to accelerate with a trailer, it's all about being able to stop and preventing swaying. I would be terrified to pull with anything but a full size truck (I have a Silverado 1500 5.3L for my 2H BP with 2 large horses). There are always idiot drivers with tiny cars that think it's ok to slam on the brakes or cut right in front of a rig for no reason. Also paramount to get a top-quality brake controller (I have a Prodigy P3 which works great). And if you're worried about gas mileage, my truck averages 18+ MPG, mostly city--recently I had to rent a V6 crossover which averaged 17.4 MPG. Goes to show that V8 doesn't equal gas hog! Towing horses is an expensive endeavor, but it's better to do right in the first place than have to clean body parts off the road in the future.


    3 members found this post helpful.

  10. #30
    Join Date
    May. 25, 2012
    Posts
    535

    Default

    For me, this is a Can you? Vs. Should You? question.

    Can you do it, given all the stipulations you have given? (One horse, aluminum trailer, flat roads, 5 miles, etc, etc.) Yes, you can. I think you're going to put a lot of wear and tear on the vehicle, especially the transmission.

    Should you do it?

    IMO and IME, NO.

    I have hauled a lot of miles in a lot of different rigs, but currently my needs are very much like yours. I would like to haul locally, in about a 20 mile radius, to trail ride. One horse in a two horse BP Steel stock, no dressing room. No highway miles, low speed hauling.

    I would prefer a 3/4 ton, but my compromise is for a half ton truck with a full factory towing package and a transmission oil cooler. And that is a compromise, I would much prefer the 3/4 ton.

    It's never, ever about how much your vehicle you can pull. It's always about how much your vehicle can stop. If you've never had the unlovely experience of standing on the brakes trying to stop your rig while the weight of the trailer and horses continues to push you forward, it's one I'd recommend you skip.

    Always remember that the Murphy of Murphy's Law was a horseman, as soon as you close the deal on this bad compromise, you will have an sudden, urgent need to haul a second horse, go past your 5 mile radius or haul through hilly country. It's just not worth it.


    4 members found this post helpful.

  11. #31

    Default Safe vehicles for trailering

    I have never posted or replied here before, but hope I can throw some helpful information out there about vehicles / towing / trailering... First off, I am NOT a horse hauling professional OR an automotive engineer BUT I am a "student" of horse rescue, horse trailering accidents and AM a trained First Responder in Large Animal Rescue, by a NATIONALLY RECOGNIZED PROFESSIONAL HORSSE RESCUE EXPERT. So here is my two cents, from his two cents, and hopefully somebody will listen and save themselves or their horses serious injury or worse. Firstly, you have to have a vehicle / trailer combination that is capable of handling not just how YOU drive, but how OTHER DRIVERS drive... Yes, a V6 /SUV might be able to PULL your loaded trailer down the road (and, unfortunately, any car dealer will tell you that sure, it can pull that weight...), but it will NOT be able to PULL YOU OUT OF TROUBLE, STOP YOU before you end up in trouble, or likely be heavy enough to keep your whole rig upright if you do get into trouble The expert I learned from reccommends at least a 3/4 ton truck with a long wheelbase for pulling loaded trailers, even a two horse (tag along OR gooseneck) And he is the guy that gets the call around here when trailers have flipped, rolled, come unhitched etc, so I dare say he has earned his opinio and I for one am very glad he has shared it with whomever will listen (like me)... Horses are NOT a stable, balanced load. They are a TOP HEAVY, DYNAMIC load. What do you think will happen if you stop or turn unexpectedly in an SUV with a short wheel base? YOUR TRAILER WILL BE DRIVING YOUR CAR... and that always ends BADLY. Driving a loaded trailer even with the very BEST of hauling equipment is in itself a risk everytime any of us load up and head down the road, but don't tempt disaster if you can help it...
    And everybody, please, always double check your hitch, pins / chains, and doors! Go around again after any stop.
    Be brave and google "horse trailer accidents, images" See what can happen when it gets done wrong / goes wrong...
    P. S. FYI, MY horse rides REAR FACING in a steel stock trailer.


    4 members found this post helpful.

  12. #32
    Join Date
    Oct. 20, 2008
    Location
    Sunshine State
    Posts
    2,215

    Default

    In the end it was cheaper for me to pay 5k for a beater old ugly F-250 and an aluminum trailer for 6k, than for me to buy a Brenderup style trailer that I could tow with my existing vehicle.... They are hard to come by around here and I couldn't find one used for under 15k!

    If you get a Euro style trailer though, you can tow it with a smaller car. Can you stop it though? Probably the more important question.
    The rebel in the grey shirt


    2 members found this post helpful.

  13. #33

    Default

    Jim in PA, the polite version to your posts is you make me piaffe in my pants. The direct version is you scare the chit out of me. And if I saw you in person with your rig, I would literally ask you WTF are you nuts?!


    Some of ya'll really scare the begezuz out of me!
    Last edited by ThisTooShallPass; Dec. 16, 2012 at 08:33 PM.
    Closest thing to a sauna around here would be tarping over a few cows, hold a bucket of water & light a match.


    5 members found this post helpful.

  14. #34
    Join Date
    Apr. 2, 2009
    Location
    North Carolina
    Posts
    5,238

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    Please for the love of cod -- it doesn't matter HOW FAR you are going. Did the horse community really forget so quickly that nearly all of Michael Pollard's Olympic prospects for the eventing team were killed about 1/2 mile from his farm? So I don't really care if you are driving 1/2 mile or 100 miles --- BE SAFE and don't lie to yourself to save money. You can buy a solid truck AND trailer AND small communter car for $15,000 or well under that -- actually here, I could get all three for about $9,000 total in pretty dang decent shape.


    5 members found this post helpful.

  15. #35
    Join Date
    Dec. 18, 2011
    Posts
    518

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    Quote Originally Posted by ThisTooShallPass View Post
    Jim in PA, the polite version to your posts is you make me piaffe in my pants. The direct version is you scare the chit out of me. And if I saw you in person with your rig, I would literally ask you WTF are you nuts?!


    Some of ya'll really scare the begezuz out of me!
    You are certainly welcome to your opinion and I respect that, even if I don't 100% agree with it. You would also have to ask that same question you mention to a great many folks around here who tow 2-h BP trailers that weigh more than mine with similar size SUVs or even full-size vans that don't have the stability control that a JGC, Tahoe, Land Rover, etc., offer. We all make our decisions based on many different things and what's best for me isn't best for everyone else.


    1 members found this post helpful.

  16. #36
    Join Date
    Sep. 29, 2009
    Posts
    2,576

    Default

    Ha ha TTSPass. Me too. But you said it soooooooo much nicer than I did.

    Ok, Jim in PA, I am showing you what I have under *my* kimono, I am opening it now. Oooohhh a breeze, must be my truck zooming by - safely.

    http://i1122.photobucket.com/albums/...2/IMG_0999.jpg

    http://i1122.photobucket.com/albums/...2/IMG_1002.jpg

    And here are the performance specs on it:

    http://news.pickuptrucks.com/2010/11...e-rockies.html

    I saved a long time to get one of these.

    Just because THEY haul with one of those doesn't mean you should too.
    Last edited by rmh_rider; Dec. 18, 2012 at 07:25 PM. Reason: spelling


    1 members found this post helpful.

  17. #37
    Join Date
    Dec. 18, 2011
    Posts
    518

    Default

    That's a very nice truck, rmh. I can see why you like it. It's something that anyone looking for a very capable truck in that class should consider. It wouldn't be a good fit for me, however, as I don't own a farm--we board--and I might pull my little trailer once a month 10 miles to the horse park...at the most. I'm not going to keep a third vehicle around to do that, either, especially after paying 50K for what I'm driving and enjoying immensely. So it's probably best that we just agree to disagree about the best approach for me.



  18. #38
    Join Date
    Dec. 19, 2008
    Location
    Where The Snow Flies
    Posts
    2,381

    Default

    I tow my brenderup with a 6cyl Chevy Trailblazer. I feel much safer in this rig than I ever did with the Chevy 3500 pickup and steel trailer. If the aluminum one horse weighed as much or less than my brenderup, I wouldn't think twice about hauling it. I did some upgrades to my truck - beefed up the rear suspension, have high performance brakes, and have the biggest tranny cooler that would fit on it. My Trailblazer does have an electric brake hookup (though I don't need it with my brenderup). I've used the Trailblazer to haul the 16' flatbed car-hauler we have on the farm and it's done so safely on our rather hilly, rural roads. With the right 6 cyl truck which has an appropriate wheel base and safety modifications, it's not outside the realm of doing so safely. There's never such a thing as too much research. Compare numbers and if at all possible, do a test haul in a similar rig. People who are diehards for "must have the biggest truck possible" have driven my rig and been very impressed with it. Safety concerns did not come up on their radar at all.

    Here's a picture of my set up. It cost me $6,100 - $2,500 for the Brenderup and $3,600 for the truck.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version. 

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    Last edited by Snowflake; Dec. 19, 2012 at 04:19 PM.



  19. #39
    Join Date
    Apr. 6, 2006
    Location
    Virginia
    Posts
    1,702

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    Here is my set up. It cost me exactly $4,400 total. Found the truck on Craigslist and the trailer on a local website. Both old (early 90's) but in fantastic shape.

    http://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphoto...82731912_n.jpg

    The truck doesn't get used unless it's hauling, and my every day car has been paid off for a while. It really ends up costing me very little to have them.

    If you do some searching I bet you can find an equally good deal and not have to compromise your horse's safety.



  20. #40
    Join Date
    May. 25, 2012
    Posts
    535

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    Couple of other points -

    The manufacturers tow ratings DO NOT apply accurately to horse trailers; and it's a bad idea to base tow vehicle choice soley on that rating. Someone else can probably explain this better than I can, but the vehicle manufacturer's tow ratings are for something like a camper, boat trailer or flat bed, where the weight of the trailer is distributed differently. On a horse trailer, the balance is such that the majority of the weight is on the tongue, which makes them less stable, more prone to sway and fishtail, and is part of the reason the vehicle wheel base to trailer wheel base ratio is so critical.

    95% of car and truck salesman think that towing a horse trailer is the same as towing a boat. It's not, and the difference is the center of gravity and the way the trailer is balanced.

    Live weight is the other key factor. If you have horses that are good haulers and never have problems, this may seem like a subtle distinction. But if you have horses that scramble or are bad haulers, or just have a horse sway or slip, because of the tongue weight thing that I tried to explain above, you will feel the trailer actually *jerk* the tow vehicle or feel the hind end of the tow vehicle be pushed from side to side.

    Hint: This is not a good thing. Not for the transmission, not for you, not for the horses.

    If someone else can post and explain the balance/tongue weight thing better than I just did, that would be a great stickied post.


    1 members found this post helpful.

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