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  1. #21
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    Oct. 26, 2007
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    If a dog killed my horse, you can bet your bottom dollar that I would want that dog DEAD. I don’t care what breed it is. I don’t care how bad the precious wittle doggy’s owners are, or how abused or mistreated it is – if it killed my horse? Or my dog? Or injured a family member – sorry dog, times up.

    I think trying to find a “rescue” for a dog like this is outrageous – save that spot for a dog that has NOT proven to be a killer! We euthanize insurmountable numbers of healthy, good tempered dogs every year. These two are VERY DANGEROUS dogs! These killers got to go.

    I have owned dogs all of my life, golden retrievers and now a Heinz 57 – mostly terrier is the thought. NEVER, not once have my dogs killed anything but insects.

    I also did not have to carefully condition my dogs NOT to view cats, chickens, horses, goats, etc are not prey – guess what? They were good tempered, non aggressive dogs who never even tried to go after animals. My smaller dog – I just had to teach him horses were okay, as he was intimidated by them. The goldens, I had to teach them to be careful that they didn’t get stepped on. Sorry, I personally believe that dogs that would attack a horse that was in a confined space as aggressive!


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  2. #22
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    especially inasmuch as the horse was on "his" property and the dogs came from next door.

    (oh, and the only pits i've ever met have been total cuddle bunnies, so i'm not anti-pit either.)
    Last edited by charismaryllis; Nov. 29, 2012 at 05:08 PM.


    1 members found this post helpful.

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by wendy View Post
    Dogs are predators, and their natural behavior is to attack and kill prey animals- predation is not aggression, and killing a horse is not an act of "viciousness", it's an act of "getting supper". Attacking and killing a horse is what a "normal" dog does- do you accuse the deer-hunter who went out and shot his deer to eat for supper of being "vicious"? of course not. He was just hunting. Do you accuse the fox-hounds who ran down and caught and killed their fox of being "vicious"? no, they were doing their job. Do you accuse the wolves who run down and eat a deer of being "vicious"? no, they were just hungry. Normal dogs hunt and kill and often eat their prey if given the opportunity.

    What the responsible OWNER does is recognize that dogs are predators, and then they make sure the dog's predatory instincts are controlled/ directed. If you live anywhere near horses, the responsible dog owner makes sure the puppy is exposed to horses such that the puppy learns horses are not prey animals; and even if the dog is socialized to horses, the responsible owner also keeps the dog under control so the dog doesn't have the opportunity to go out and hunt and kill livestock, or even wildlife.

    These two dogs aren't abnormal in any way- they are perfectly normal dogs who just happen to be owned by an extremely irresponsible person. If they are taken away from their owner and placed with a responsible owner, they won't be involved in attacks on animals ever again. It is true that since there is a shortage of good homes a suitable home may not be found for these dogs, in which case euthanization is the best option.

    Their breed is totally irrelevant, and in fact, I'd be shocked to find out their breed had even been identified correctly. Most likely they are just big chunky mutts with short hair. Any large dog with intact hunting instincts- which is most- is capable or even likely to go out and attack horses if given the opportunity.

    Attacking humans is very different from attacking prey animals- most bites delivered to humans by dogs are not done so as part of predation. Most dog-to-human bites are efforts by the dog to defend itself from the human- self-defense fear-motivated bites. Dogs with high prey drive are no more likely than dogs with low prey drive to bite people; in fact, many of the breeds with extremely high prey drive and records of successfully killing prey animals (hounds) are among those who are least likely to bite people. Dogs who bite people need to be judged on a case-by-case basis; some of these dogs could easily be rehomed with no risk of another bite, but some definitely should be euth'd for the safety of all. Depends on what happened and why.

    Dogs attacking other dogs is also different from biting people or predation- sometimes when a small dog is killed swiftly by a large dog it is predation, but most dog-dog attacks are actually acts of aggression. Dogs who are aggressive to other dogs can sometimes be safely managed or retrained, but owners should certainly consider euthanization as a valid option for truly dog aggressive dogs, for the safety of others.
    These dogs were PETS. Unless they were being starved - which I've seen nothing regarding this story that says they were - I don't buy they were looking for food. I've seen tons of farm dogs around horses and other livestock, and I've never heard of one attacking a horse in my neck of the woods.

    How do you explain one of them attacking the horse owner's small dog as it was being chased off the property?

    If these were feral dogs or wild dogs, fine. Spare them, they need nourishment too and it is more understandable. But they were not.
    *Wendy* 4.17.73 - 12.20.05


    11 members found this post helpful.

  4. #24
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    Dec. 31, 2009
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    If I happened upon these two dogs gnawing and maiming my dying horse, they wouldn't have left my property.
    Chicken Fancier

    "Mischief Managed!"


    18 members found this post helpful.

  5. #25
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    Feb. 9, 2005
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    Once again it is a case of failure to restrain. If you do not control your dog (via containment, training, or whatever) then you should be held responsible. It is *really* simple.

    It always becomes a big blame the breed thing, and I think that is the wrong focus.

    Anyone hear the outcome?
    Siouxland Sporthorses: http://slsfarm.blogspot.com/

    DIY Journey of Remodeling the Farmette: http://weownblackacre.blogspot.com/


    3 members found this post helpful.

  6. #26
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    Apr. 1, 2008
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    Wendy, predation being a natural trait or not, these dogs have shown they aren't trustworthy.

    Why take up resources that could go to adoptable dogs? These dogs shouldn't be adopted out, they need specialized handling as they have proven aggressive. I can handle dogs like this but I don't want to. Joe Q Public should not even have access to them.

    no, she needs to be euthanized, with a kind hand and a special day at the end.


    8 members found this post helpful.

  7. #27
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    Jun. 20, 2008
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    I have and know plenty of dogs who do not roam the streets looking for dinner; these pits apparently made a beeline like a cougar to the horse. In my own neighborhood we have a mixed bag of dogs. Most of the time I give country /farm pits a break - they are terriers after all thus have lots of energy but when a dog kills another animal or human I don't care what breed it is - it is simply not going to be a good pet after the attacks start up. And what further annoys me is so often the owners of these dogs feel they are so well trained, they keep them off-leash Oh they won't do nuthin; yeah right. When my dog was attacked thank goodness it was cold & raining so she had a coat on [not a sissy dog - long wet hair& carpet = smell ] If there are other breeds like cocker's running around injuring/killing/biting other dogs & people you certainly don't hear about them like the pits.


    2 members found this post helpful.

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by wendy View Post
    Dogs are predators, and their natural behavior is to attack and kill prey animals- predation is not aggression, and killing a horse is not an act of "viciousness", it's an act of "getting supper". Attacking and killing a horse is what a "normal" dog does [....]


    are you insane?

    or let me rephrase that:
    Will you say the same thing when your neighbor's dog takes down your horse in 'search for supper'?

    If the animal was feral, we would not have the discussion, because the guns would come out and the offending animal would be hunted and shot for trespassing on human turf.

    These were pets. As such the drive to kill was not in search of supper.
    And no less a transgression than say if a cougar or wolf or bear had done so.

    The dog 'owners' failed.
    Sad for the dogs, but with the shelters full of good, trustworthy animals, it is a travesty to even entertain the idea to keep either of those dogs alive.

    it's the age old contract between wolf (dog) and man: in return for a warm spot by the fire and a full belly the masters herd will not be touched.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mozart View Post
    Personally, I think the moderate use of shock collars in training humans should be allowed.


    8 members found this post helpful.

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alagirl View Post

    it's the age old contract between wolf (dog) and man: in return for a warm spot by the fire and a full belly the masters herd will not be touched.
    Well put. Very well put. As someone who lived with and around wolves for 11 years or so.... Yes.
    Nudging "Almost Heaven" a little closer still...
    http://www.wvhorsetrainer.com



  10. #30
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    Feb. 13, 2010
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    Quote Originally Posted by Belg View Post
    Well put. Very well put. As someone who lived with and around wolves for 11 years or so.... Yes.


    it's the age old contract between wolf (dog) and man: in return for a warm spot by the fire and a full belly the masters herd will not be touched.
    As with all contracts, the devil is in the detail.

    i.e. The understanding my hounds have.
    The cats in the house are " pack ", the ones running loose outside are "intruders".
    Last edited by Graureiter; Dec. 1, 2012 at 08:47 AM.
    My horse is a "Hare-Brained Controvert".



  11. #31
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    Mar. 12, 2006
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    Ocala
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    Pits are bred for aggression, to kill. Same as terriers are bred to rat; try and stop a terrier from doing that. Border collies are herders, its what they do, you can't stop them. When a breed is bred for so long for one use, its impossible to get that trait out of them. Some serious training can help, but the trait is still there. I have heard so many times of a pit attacking a child, that same pit "never hurt anyone, he was just so sweet". Yeah, right. So why did he just tear up a child? Its what pits do. In my neighborhood, a loose pit is a dead pit. No one wants to risk it. Anyone who thinks its natural for a domesticated well fed dog to drag down a horse and gnaw on it, needs some serious help.


    10 members found this post helpful.

  12. #32
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    Jun. 21, 2004
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    ^^^ THAT IS BULLSHZNIT^^^^^

    Just an FYI
    These dogs were used as catch dogs for semi-wild cattle and hogs, to hunt, to drive livestock, and as family companions. These dogs bred to fight often show animal aggression and not ppl. I don't care what is said as I have been around a lot of "fight" bred pits

    Do I trust them with childern? No, I don't trust any animal with teeth around my child. As my Fiancee says "If it has teeth it can bite"
    Last edited by Nootka; Dec. 2, 2012 at 01:40 PM. Reason: Forgot to finish my thought..
    *^*^*^
    Himmlische Traumpferde
    "Wenn Du denkst es geht nicht mehr, kommt von irgendwo ein kleines Licht daher"


    4 members found this post helpful.

  13. #33
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    No, its not bullshit. There are thousands of these dogs bred every year for fighting. I dont know if theres more bred for fighting than showing, but Id bet there is, since theres so much money in it. Just because you dont like it, doesnt make it bullshit.


    5 members found this post helpful.

  14. #34
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    Jun. 20, 2008
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    they might not be bred for fighting but there is now some thug wannabe type appeal - just as some miniature dogs have become accessories to be carried around like a purse, some folks want to own pits because they want to look tough. I had this guy lecture me about pre-judging his pit bull because I threw my dog into my gated yard after his loose pit bull make a dash to meet my dog. Sorry, I'm not taking any chances w/ your unleashed pet & my smaller dog. What can be a friendly hello sniff can turn into a disaster in an instant. I'm not going to take that chance.

    Of note, I heard on the radio this morning police killed am "American Bull terrier" after it mauled a young child. They did not say the dog was a poodle, or a cocker, or a retriever, but a Bull Terrier.


    4 members found this post helpful.

  15. #35
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    Sep. 29, 2009
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    Both should be euth'd. Bad owners or not.

    A rescue? So the ad for placement will read: dog has the potential to kill other animals, or was standing guard when another dog was doing the deed.

    Or will the dog go to a no-kill and forever be in jail. Dogs are companion animals. Doubt this will be a decision the dog will like for the rest of it's life in a chain link dog run. It is living, eating, not be e'uthd, so this is a good life. ??


    2 members found this post helpful.

  16. #36
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    May. 12, 2008
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    Quote Originally Posted by wendy View Post
    Dogs are predators, and their natural behavior is to attack and kill prey animals- predation is not aggression, and killing a horse is not an act of "viciousness", it's an act of "getting supper".

    These two dogs aren't abnormal in any way- they are perfectly normal dogs who just happen to be owned by an extremely irresponsible person.
    I agree that these dogs were doing what is 'normal' for them, but I disagree with the assessment that it is 'normal' dog behavior. Pit bulls were bred for aggression. They were bred to be overly aggressive due to the game they were hunting and continued due to the appeal of dog fighting. So, yes, it was natural to them, but not natural to other breeds.

    The German Sheperd I owned, I got from the local shelter and came from a suburban home. She never saw horses until the first time I took her to the farm. The first time I took her to the farm, she did what came natural to her.....she tried to herd the horses. She had a very strong herd instinct and NEVER killed anything. She tried to herd the wild groundhog, used to herd my cat, and literally carried a bird off the property without harming it.

    So, while other breeds will bite, the problem with terrier breeds is that they are bred to not let up. The problem with pit bull terriers is that they are bigger and stronger. I have met some nasty Jack Russell terriers in my life, but I don't think even 20 of them working together could take down a horse.

    Quote Originally Posted by TrotTrotPumpkn View Post
    Once again it is a case of failure to restrain. If you do not control your dog (via containment, training, or whatever) then you should be held responsible. It is *really* simple.

    It always becomes a big blame the breed thing, and I think that is the wrong focus.

    Anyone hear the outcome?
    While I agree with restraint, in concept, I understand that the reality may be different. There was a little mixed breed dog in my property that I just thought the owners did not restrain properly. I met the owners, they explained that no matter what they did (tying, backyard fence, leash...) they could not keep the little dog under control, no matter how much they wanted to.

    I witnessed that tiny (10lbs) dog jump my 3.5ft fence to get into my property to hang out with my Sheperd (65lbs) that never attempted to jump my fence. So, without knowing anymore details, yeah, some dogs are very tricksy. I have also personally accidentally let various dogs out due to not latching a gate properly or what not. So, I am not going to say the owners are neglectful without any details of these dogs getting out constantly.

    Either way, I think both dogs should be euthanized. They have shown themselves to be way to aggressive.


    2 members found this post helpful.

  17. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by rmh_rider View Post
    Both should be euth'd. Bad owners or not.

    A rescue? So the ad for placement will read: dog has the potential to kill other, large animals, or was standing guard when another dog was doing the deed.

    Or will the dog go to a no-kill and forever be in jail. Dogs are companion animals. Doubt this will be a decision the dog will like for the rest of it's life in a chain link dog run. It is living, eating, not be e'uthd, so this is a good life. ??

    there, fixed that for you.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mozart View Post
    Personally, I think the moderate use of shock collars in training humans should be allowed.



  18. #38
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    Excuse me, I do not think a dog who kills "animals" will distinguish between large or small animals, be that a human child, or adult child, chee wa wa or your new born foal.

    I do not think the dog (the dog who kills) can distinguish between protecting it's master from a person with a knife robbing, breaking and entering, or the paramedics coming into the house to help the owner.

    My elderly mom was wanting a presa canaria. She can not even control her corgi, let alone a huge dog like this.

    I know we are humans. But we humans are just another "animal" here on earth. I think we are all fair game when dogs start to take out other warm blooded creatures. Large or small.

    Please do not correct me or fix anything for me. I know exactly what I wrote, and typed.

    The dog of this subject will more than likely end up in a dead end no kill shelter, only to live out it's life in a chain link run. Pretty much a death sentence in solitary confinement.



  19. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nootka View Post
    ^^^ THAT IS BULLSHZNIT^^^^^

    Just an FYI
    These dogs were used as catch dogs for semi-wild cattle and hogs, to hunt, to drive livestock, and as family companions. These dogs bred to fight often show animal aggression and not ppl. I don't care what is said as I have been around a lot of "fight" bred pits

    Do I trust them with childern? No, I don't trust any animal with teeth around my child. As my Fiancee says "If it has teeth it can bite"
    Ask the elderly lady in a closeby neighborhood if pits show aggression to people. Oops you can't, she was killed. You are very wise not trusting pits around your children.


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  20. #40
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    Halo, you are right on spot with your post.

    I am no stranger to dog breeds. I have shown AKC for many years. And NO, not pits, aka american bull terriers.

    I will never trust a pit. Never. There is the potential.

    Just like a stallion. There is always the potential that they might . . . ?


    1 members found this post helpful.

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